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Why is Sean Payton considered a better HC than MM?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by red4tribe, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. red4tribe

    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    As we are playing the Saints on Sunday night, I spent a litte bit of time comparing the careers of MM and Sean Payton. They are extremely similar.

    Year hired
    MM- 2006
    Payton- 2006

    Regular Season Record and Winning Percentage
    MM- 87-47-1, .649
    Payton- 75-43, .636

    Playoff Record
    MM- 6-5
    Payton- 6-4

    Division Titles
    MM- 4
    Payton- 3

    Lombardi Trophies
    MM- 1
    Payton- 1

    Challenge Success Rate
    MM- 48.5%
    Payton- 42.0%

    Yet, as you'll see in the NFL Head Coach power ranking below, Payton is consistently ranked above MM. In the three rankings, MM came in at 6, 6 and 9. Payton came in at 5, 2, and 4. They both have future HOF, have run high powered offenses and both have had suspect defenses. Why does Payton get more credit than MM?

    http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000365040
    http://cover32.com/2014/02/04/power-rankings-rating-nfl-head-coaches-from-1-32/
    http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap1000000208735
     
  2. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Number of teams that encouraged it's defense to intentionally injure and sideline opposing players
    MM - 0
    Payton - 1
     
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  3. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I dunno. Maybe it's because Payton turned around a bunch of losers into a winning team but with a lot of help from a scandal filled defense?
    Mike didn't have to go through with that.
    He steps in with an already sorta winning QB and a team with the rich championship winning history.
    Also, Green Bay as far as I know, hasn't had any hurricanes or tornados to make the rest of the country feel bad for us and then happy when GB won the SB.
     
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  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sean had one less season dont forget
     
  5. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    That seems to be a point at a couple of the links.
    He goes away, they suck again. He comes back, they get better.
    He should have a few more seasons of scandal free teams along with a clean SB before making a judgement on how good he really is IMO.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    They are close in success, but Payton is a RAH RAH coach. The one that yells and screams alot. People buy into his big personality and give him more credit. Its why you still hear Grudens name for possible coaching positions
     
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  7. red4tribe

    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    That was an initial thought of mine. MM is a lot more low key and seemingly unemotional, while Payton isn't at all.
     
  8. profile_removed

    profile_removed Cheesehead

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    I look at it this way. I think it's a respect thing. If all things were equal I myself would rather play for Payton if I played, and I couldn't even tell you why. You're either a Payton guy or a McCarthy guy.
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    free pills?
     
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  10. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Because according to the media's logic: Sean Payton is more hip and nicer to look at.
     
  11. Dagger85

    Dagger85 Cheesehead

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    The media loves the coaches who are animated, yell and/or give them something to talk about in pressers. ("We are on to Cincinatti")

    McCarthy is the kind of guy who isn't the biggest yeller and doesn't make a ton of jokes. He is very business-like. If you see McCarthy smiling really big on the sideline, you know we are having a good game. Granted, I guess a ton of coaches aren't smiling if their team is having a bad game, but it just seems different with McCarthy.

    Some coaches are also on twitter and are very open about things. McCarthy is just kind of old school.
     
  12. ls1bob

    ls1bob Cheesehead

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    I like MM personally and if I was a player I would rather play for him. He seems pretty even keel but you can tell when things go bad he gets a little gruff and takes it personally like it is a failure on his part,not the team most of the time. AND when he says he will get involved in a part of the team that is having a problem(run game last year,defense this year)you see results.
     
  13. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    That list is automatically bunk. Mike Smith at #11? He could get fired any week now.
     
  14. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    I'll take Mike Tomlin over MM or Sean Payton any day!! Hate the steelers but love Mike Tomlin's demeanor, passion, and that he's a true players coach.
     
  15. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Yep! It's what fans want to see and it kind of makes sense. If we're sitting at home on pins and needles and being emotional, how the heck can the coach be seen on TV not screaming, right?

    I agree about Gruden also. I laugh at the "We want Gruden as our coach!" crap. Really? ...and what makes a person think he's a fantastic coach?
     
  16. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    I think he's awesome as well. One of the classiest coaches in the league as well. After the Pack beat them in the SB a reporter was trying to bait him into giving excuses for why they lost and he looked her in the eye and said "I WILL NOT make excuses! The Packers played better than us, they were the better team and they deserved to win this game."
     
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  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I wouldn´t call a guy classy who tried to get in the way of a punt returner during last season.
     
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  18. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    I would call that a brain fart from a very competitive coach. One event doesn't dictate who a person is. If that were true your irrational love for Greg Olson would make you about the most insane person on this forum.:D;)

    Yes, that guy is all class.
     
  19. PackCrazed4

    PackCrazed4 Cheesehead

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    Piggybacking off what others have said, I think it has everything to do with this:



    [​IMG]

    MM is the most under-the-radar coach in the National Football League. His persona is very vanilla by emotional standards; unlike Bill Belichick, he cooperates with the media fully, but doesn't give away many trade secrets and toes his party line diligently. He does little to draw attention to himself, doesn't have outlandish antics on the sideline, doesn't make overly emotional speeches in the locker room and, in fact, leaves most of the motivational moments and roles to his players.

    The less interesting, the less scrutiny, the less appreciation.
     
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  20. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    he's not fat.
     
  21. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Oh, a power ranking on coaches. Which has about as much importance to the game as power ranking the teams. Zero importance. Not even worth reading the article.
     
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  22. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    That's my feeling. My favorite all time has been the Tom Coughlin saga. That guy has gone from the firing line to coach of the year candidate back to the firing line faster than Brent Fvfer can throw a pick six. I remember a few years back I was watching an early season game and they said he would very possibly be fired the next day. Just 5 weeks later he was being hailed as a coach of the year candidate! :D:laugh:
     
  23. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I really don't care which is considered the better HC, I just want to see McCarthy win another Super Bowl. If he does and Payton doesn’t that will, or should, end the discussion. But I won't care if it does or not. What I find interesting is at the time of McCarthy’s hiring, Sean Payton not only interviewed for the job but really thought he may get it. Thompson zeroed in on two very good HCs. This is from a Vandermause article written in February of 2010:

    http://archive.greenbaypressgazette...reen-Bay-Packers-New-Orleans-Saints-lot-alike

    Reading the article knowing what happens about one year after it was written… :D
     
  24. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    What pimple-faced kid did they pay to log the number of times a player or coach made it onto the television? Mind bogglingly useless info.

    I agree that it's mostly about how bad the Saints were before Sean P turned them around, and the feel-good story surrounding their emergence post-Katrina. Turning around a perennially bad team nicknamed "The Ain'ts" into a perennial playoff team says something. Had MM pulled a Holmgren with the Packers instead of just dusting off a perfectly good donut that was the Packers in 2005, he might get a little more.

    His record certainly bears his credentials.
     
  25. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I noticed that in comparing post game locker rooms.
    Other coaches go on sermons and Mike is like, "Good job guys. Great win. See ya Tuesday." and that's pretty much it yet I watch to expect something different.
     
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