Which Two Wide Outs do we want?

Status
Not open for further replies.
OP
OP
gopkrs

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,416
Reaction score
1,291
I think sometimes people limit their choices by saying The Packers don't need a slot receiver. I think you take the best pass catcher available and definitely not draft a guy that is actually a lesser receiver just because he physically fits a mold. The rap on a slot receiver would really only be that he could get manhandled at the line of scrimmage. But even a small two yard motion could easily take care of that problem. I just want the best hands, ability to get open and speed to get deep. I think if we have 3 receivers like that; we just don't need a physical specimen or a bonafide #1 receiver.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,533
Reaction score
8,137
Location
Madison, WI
I think sometimes people limit their choices by saying The Packers don't need a slot receiver. I think you take the best pass catcher available and definitely not draft a guy that is actually a lesser receiver just because he physically fits a mold. The rap on a slot receiver would really only be that he could get manhandled at the line of scrimmage. But even a small two yard motion could easily take care of that problem. I just want the best hands, ability to get open and speed to get deep. I think if we have 3 receivers like that; we just don't need a physical specimen or a bonafide #1 receiver.
I have to disagree, especially this season. The Packers currently have 2 receivers that take a lot of snaps playing slot, Cobb and Rodgers. Our other receiver, Lazard took 195 of his 716 offensive snaps while in the slot.

I think certain players, like Davante, can be effective no matter where they line up. But a guy like MVS, I don't think he is going to be as effective from the slot. Just as I don't think Amari Rodgers was drafted to line up outside.

So yes, if you can find a player as versatile as Davante, great. However, if the Packers are talking about spending high picks on a WR, they really need to concentrate on guys that are mainly productive lining up outside. As they learn the offense, then they can be moved around more.
 
OP
OP
gopkrs

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,416
Reaction score
1,291
I think certain players, like Davante, can be effective no matter where they line up. But a guy like MVS, I don't think he is going to be as effective from the slot. Just as I don't think Amari Rodgers was drafted to line up outside.

So yes, if you can find a player as versatile as Davante, great. However, if the Packers are talking about spending high picks on a WR, they really need to concentrate on guys that are mainly productive lining up outside. As they learn the offense, then they can be moved around more.
No, MVS will probably not line up in the slot. Much easier for a smaller guy to line up outside than a bigger one to line up inside and be effective. And like I said, they won't get stopped on the line of scrimmage if you use motion. It would actually be sweet imho, to have a bunch of really quick, fast receivers with good hands. Especially if two of them could get deep. And so I think we will be better served not to think too much about having to have a #1 W/O. It's all right to think outside of the box.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,533
Reaction score
8,137
Location
Madison, WI
so I think we will be better served not to think too much about having to have a #1 W/O. It's all right to think outside of the box.
You can think that, but I can almost guarantee you, as long as the Packers haven't determined that Amari Rodgers is a bust, they won't be using a high pick on a short receiver, that played mostly in the slot in college. Now if he can play all over the field, then you pay less attention to it. Not to mention that Gute seems to like tall WR's.

I also don't think the Packers are drafting a WR with the thought they he will be their #1 target in 2022. Would be awesome if they found one right away, but given what we have seen since Aaron Rodgers took over, it takes a good year or 2 for chemistry to develop with his receivers. That said, they are looking for a guy that will become the #1 WR in the coming years and probably hoping to find a #2 as well.
 
Last edited:

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
794
Reaction score
759
If we don't move around my idea would probably be Burks and Pickens at 22/28 respectively.

I'm less and less sold on London but starting to get a bit higher on Wilson. If Gute and co are convinced he's the guy I wouldn't be mad if we moved up to get him. I don't know if he's night and day better than Burks, Williams, Pickens, Dotson, etc, but if you think there's a chance he can be your Jefferson/Chase, then I think you gotta get him.
Of course it depends on what it would take and how high we'd have to move up and whatnot.

But, like I said, first choice would probably be Burks and Pickens at 22 and 28, and that's not just who I want at WR - that's how I'd want to see our first round go overall. Yes - double up with both firsts on WRs. But, I'm not SUPER picky. I really like Burks and Pickens both, but if we don't have one guy we're totally sold on...I wouldn't complain about any combination of two of Burks, Olave, Williams, Dotson, Pickens, etc.

If it's none of the above...In the second round or later I'm quite interested in Tolbert, or maybe with any luck Watson...I don't think he'd be there when we pick but could always move up in the 2nd or trade out of 28 or something to make it happen I'm sure.

And grab us a TE too.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,401
Reaction score
5,770
George Pickens somewhere - The most underrated WR in this draft.
The good thing for us Packers is he had a significant injury and has some attitude concerns. The bad thing for us Packers is he had a significant injury and has some attitude concerns.

From a purely talent perspective? If you took away the extra-curricular activities and recent injury, he’d be an easy Day 1 prospect in there with Burks and Olave etc.. I think he’s got some additional risk that you can’t ignore, however he’s one of the 3 highest ceiling Receivers in this draft. Jameson is another one that checks all the boxes but he in particular has better recent production to back his injury concern.
 
Last edited:

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,533
Reaction score
8,137
Location
Madison, WI
The good thing for us Packers is he had a significant injury and has some attitude concerns.
What were Pickens attitude concerns? I never heard anything, other than he isn't a very good blocker for teammates.

I like Pickens and think he is a better MVS type receiver. He will get open deep, but probably has much better hands. However, like MVS, he could use some bulking up to be able to fight through DB's at the LOS.
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
5,051
Reaction score
1,307
You've been here long enough to know this is not going to happen. Every morning I check in I have new posts in a dozen different threads and over 3/4 are WR options discussions. This is just another thread to rehash the same points made in dozens of others.WR thread
You are right and I think one of those threads is even a WR thread. I almost started this same thread a couple days ago HOPING it would stick to a draft thread because I don't know anything about the rookies but I realized that it would most likey turn into a FA WR then a general rookie thread thread then a Gute draft success thread then a Rodgers contract tread and eventually maybe even an AJ Dillon thread. I will enjoy it before it devolves though. Thanks to all who post relevant information.

I'm hoping we can get a WR with a first round pick and then maybe another with a second or third rounder. I would be OK with a slight move up to get a particular target but I hope its not too far that we have to give up too much draft capital. I really want to leave this draft with at least 4 day 1-2 picks. Thats why I like this thread because I can get a feel for where people think we might be able to get certain WRs.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
15,893
Reaction score
3,797
Pickens doesn't have bulk, but he's got a help of a swat and punch. I don't think he's going to lock someone up like Lazard can, but he's got an explosive punch that will create plenty of separation and he'll be off clean into his route.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,533
Reaction score
8,137
Location
Madison, WI
Pickens doesn't have bulk, but he's got a help of a swat and punch. I don't think he's going to lock someone up like Lazard can, but he's got an explosive punch that will create plenty of separation and he'll be off clean into his route.
I definitely like Pickens and had he played all of last season, I think he might have been a top 5-15 pick. Would I take him with our 28th? Maybe, if the other guys are all gone. I also don't think Pickens lasts long enough in the 2nd round for the Packers to grab him, unless they obtain an earlier 2nd rounder.

First thing I would say to him though. "You are going to need to hit the weight room and learn how to block." The good news, they wouldn't put him in the slot much, if at all, so blocking is not a priority, especially in his rookie year.
 

Poppa San

* Team Owner *
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
12,960
Reaction score
2,831
Location
20 miles from Lambeau
1. Burks. Not sold on him. A poor man's Metcalf. Would rather trade down for someone else.
2. London. Not sold on him either. No speed or separation. Would rather trade down for someone else.
3. Dotson. Probably very good and reliable.
4. Pickens. Sounds like a very good pick.
5. Watson. Sounds really interesting. Speed, tall
6. Moore. He caught a lot of passes.
7. Pierce. Caught more than 3 balls in only 6 games.
8. Thornton. I liked his tape. Good hands.
My life does not revolve around breaking down tape of college prospects as a hobby. Which NFL players would best summarize the capabilities and style of each of these players? IMO we need at least one Greg Jennings type route technician, one Randy Moss take the top off speed demon and one human dynamo returner / gadget receiver. I am not sure if any are on the roster.
 
OP
OP
gopkrs

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,416
Reaction score
1,291
My life does not revolve around breaking down tape of college prospects as a hobby. Which NFL players would best summarize the capabilities and style of each of these players? IMO we need at least one Greg Jennings type route technician, one Randy Moss take the top off speed demon and one human dynamo returner / gadget receiver. I am not sure if any are on the roster.
Well I'm sure of one thing. We don't have a Randy Moss type receiver on the roster. But we can find someone to take the top off. As to the route runner, that is one thing imo we should be looking for in the draft. Maybe not the gadget man so much. But I would like to have at least a punt returner. Pickens can be a route receiver that can get deep. Dotson is a route receiver. Watson will take the top off. Moore caught a lot of passes last year and that is something a had noticed that Jordy did in college. I think Pierce is very fast. I don't spend a lot of time on it. Just some you tube and mocks. But after a little time, a pattern emerges about what a kind of consensus is. Doesn't mean they are right or that The Pack goes that way.
 

Poppa San

* Team Owner *
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
12,960
Reaction score
2,831
Location
20 miles from Lambeau
So what attributes, capabilities and styles did you like in these 2 WR's? :coffee:
Jennings may not have been world class speed but he was always there and caught the ball. Moss ran around, through, and away from coverage and also caught the ball.

We basically need to be replacing DA17 with someone 90% as efficient and someone else 125% as efficient as MVS.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,401
Reaction score
5,770
What were Pickens attitude concerns? I never heard anything, other than he isn't a very good blocker for teammates.

I like Pickens and think he is a better MVS type receiver. He will get open deep, but probably has much better hands. However, like MVS, he could use some bulking up to be able to fight through DB's at the LOS.
What were Pickens attitude concerns? I never heard anything, other than he isn't a very good blocker for teammates.
Smart has been open about inappropriate behavior. Suspended for violating team rules, game ejection for fighting. Spraying and opposing QB with a water bottle when being tackled near him etc..
Childish stuff mostly, but acts that point to lack of discipline.

I’m not condemning the guy. Yet when you invest millions of dollars in an employee, you don’t want to hear that stuff. It’s the kinda stuff that adds up to losing a tie breaker with another option that’s graded similar. I’m a firm believer that discipline off the field carries to discipline on the field.


“It’s just disappointing,” Smart said via 247Sports. “It’s silly behavior. It’s immature, just like two guys running down to celebrate with Jalen Carter. That cost us a Tennessee game already once. What are we thinking? We show that once a year to talk about when your buddy scores, celebrate on the sideline with him. When somebody comes out of bounds and you squirt water at them, what are we? Are we seven, eight years old? I mean, come on. Let’s play football. Let’s don’t be silly.”

The Packers have done a fantastic job screening high caliber players though. If they feel this isn’t something that can carry over fine. Yet it needs to be addressed upfront and deemed a concern. Like you said, we can fix blocking.. we don’t need to babysit. I do apologize if he’s a favorite, I think he’s one heck of an athlete but I look at the total pie, especially Day 1.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
gopkrs

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,416
Reaction score
1,291
I'm starting to re-think my first W/O choice. Burks is sounding better and better to me. But I do think we also need to get someone like Watson or Pierce that have a lot of speed to go deep. I have wanted Pickens but if he is one of these babies who have to be in your face all the time and can't make a TD w/o getting a 15 yard penalty...well that stuff bothers me. Don't know if that is who he is but if he is; then I would prefer not to see it every Sunday. Don't think Watson will be there for us in the 2nd so going 1,2 in the first with Burks and Watson sounds ideal to me.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,533
Reaction score
8,137
Location
Madison, WI
I'm starting to re-think my first W/O choice. Burks is sounding better and better to me. But I do think we also need to get someone like Watson or Pierce that have a lot of speed to go deep. I have wanted Pickens but if he is one of these babies who have to be in your face all the time and can't make a TD w/o getting a 15 yard penalty...well that stuff bothers me. Don't know if that is who he is but if he is; then I would prefer not to see it every Sunday. Don't think Watson will be there for us in the 2nd so going 1,2 in the first with Burks and Watson sounds ideal to me.
My ideal scenario. Use the #22 pick on their highest rated WR still on the board, unless there aren't any left and/or a real blue chipper at DL, OL, OLB, Secondary fell.

If they secure a top WR at #22 and they aren't really excited about who is there at #28, trade out of the first for a high second Rd. pick and a 4th. Then with that second rd., grab one of the other WR's from the second tier (Watson, Pierce, Pickens, etc.).

The next 2 picks in round 2, will round out some needs and values.

I like the TE's, DL and ILB's that appear to be round 3 or 4 candidates. If Gute can head into the 5th round, already drafting 2 WR's, 1 OLB,1 S,1 TE,1 DL and 1 ILB....we are in good shape. :)
 

morango

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
158
Reaction score
20
Location
414
Okay I don’t post much any more but this draft has me intrigued. For some reason I’ve got issues with Burkes and Pickens. Assuming Olave and the other top WRs are gone by #22, I would be fine with selecting Christian Watson at #28 and Alec Pierce at #59. I don’t care if they went to small schools and the pundits think it’s a reach. Then the other top 100 picks can be any combo of Edge, Safety, OT, or DT. Day 3 picks can fill in some TE, CB, etc. and maybe even a third WR especially if no help is found via Free Agency or trades.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,401
Reaction score
5,770
My ideal scenario. Use the #22 pick on their highest rated WR still on the board, unless there aren't any left and/or a real blue chipper at DL, OL, OLB, Secondary fell.

If they secure a top WR at #22 and they aren't really excited about who is there at #28, trade out of the first for a high second Rd. pick and a 4th. Then with that second rd., grab one of the other WR's from the second tier (Watson, Pierce, Pickens, etc.).

The next 2 picks in round 2, will round out some needs and values.

I like the TE's, DL and ILB's that appear to be round 3 or 4 candidates. If Gute can head into the 5th round, already drafting 2 WR's, 1 OLB,1 S,1 TE,1 DL and 1 ILB....we are in good shape. :)
Amen brother. If we can do that and maybe grab a solid veteran OL. Really wished we could’ve somehow gotten Tretter on a reasonable deal, but he’s still going to be expensive or at least in terms with our wallet anyway. I’d feel great with that type guy who can play a variety of roles at a substantial level.

Also maybe a mid tier veteran WR who has a speed factor.
 
Last edited:

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,533
Reaction score
8,137
Location
Madison, WI
Amen brother. If we can do that and maybe grab a solid veteran OL. Really wished we could’ve somehow gotten Tretter on a reasonable deal, but he’s still going to be expensive or at least in terms with our wallet anyway. I’d feel great with that type guy who can play a variety of roles at a substantial level.

Also maybe a mid tier veteran WR who has a speed factor.
Agreed. We still need both of those positions fortified & "veteranized". While they should still draft 2-3 WR's, I don't expect a ton of production in year 1 from them. I still think if Bulaga passes medical and he's willing to take vet min with some game day bonuses, sign him up.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,401
Reaction score
5,770
Agreed. We still need both of those positions fortified & "veteranized". While they should still draft 2-3 WR's, I don't expect a ton of production in year 1 from them. I still think if Bulaga passes medical and he's willing to take vet min with some game day bonuses, sign him up.
Oh I forgot about Bulaga
 

Big L

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
1,499
Reaction score
602
To me, from a purely on the field ability perspective, Pickens is Andre Johnson less the additional 25lbs - I would love to see him play at about 215
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Top