Was getting rid of Capers and TT really the solution?

[Cornelius Weems]

The Packers not having been able to win without Rodgers was mostly based on a lack of overall talent on the roster though.

True. This year it seems like the talent is a bit better, but our offense is getting out played. We would have lost that home opener if not for Rodgers. I don't see us ever reaching the super bowl again with MM. Have you ever seen us win (lately) because of MM? I've only seen them under perform because of him. I'll never forget the "confidence" he had in a very bad QB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm optimistic that the defense is on the right course and is playing better. A few things holding it back:

1. Continued lack of production from the OLB position.
2. Loss of Wilkerson.
3. The Safety play and lack of depth.
4. Bit of inexperience in our young CB group.
5. Injuries, but I hate using that as an excuse, its the same every year...depth is needed.

This offseason needs to finally be the one that addresses the OLB. While it will be expensive, I would prefer the Packers trying to do so by signing one of the top 5 OLB FA's and still using a top pick on one in the draft.

Not sure if Wilkerson will be back. At the right price, I would want him back. Doesn't seem like we have enough quality depth currently on the DL.

The Safety position has become a lot like the OLB position. We need better talent ASAP.

I am hopeful for King getting healthy and staying healthy. Even if he doesn't, you have to believe that JA and Jackson are legit and the future of the position. I'm still iffy on Joe Whitt coaching these guys, but that may resolve itself if there is a purging of coaches in the off season.

Now the bad news. With all the draft capital spent on the defense in the past 5+ years, the offense is going to need some attention. As much as everyone wants to say we have a solid OL, I would disagree, time to invest high in a RT and a mid round pick or two for the future. Graham will be back at TE, but I don't see Lewis or Kendricks back. Time to invest a higher pick in the position to backup Graham as well as take over for him in the next 2 years.

Will be interesting to see what Gute does in Free Agency. I could see him using a decent cap cushion to address OLB, S and RT.

 

[Forget Favre]

It’s hard for me to understand this thread a day after Pettine’s defense does great work against a top two offense and Gutekunst’s top pick has a fantastic outing.

Because no matter how good you all are claiming the defense is, we are still losing games.
The D is still allowing the opposing teams to get more points than we do.
Maybe you and others can be happy with the D but I won't be until we have the wins to back up those bragging rights.

I'm just not sure if getting rid of Capers was really the right thing after all when we won more games with him.
No playoff chances this year even with a healthy Rodgers?
Something ain't right.
You can say it's the offense but maybe it's STILL the defense.

 

[Forget Favre]

You do understand the term "residual effect" and how it correlates to what TT and Capers left behind right? You can't just change that over night. If Bill Belichick started coaching the Browns next year, I guarantee you they aren't making it to the Super Bowl. TT and Capers were relieved of their duties because it finally became obvious to the Packers organization that they were sliding downhill. It's going to take both Gute and Pettine time to fix that, but its not happening in the blink of an eye.

I still don't get it why everyone around here is willing to give Petine a break with a losing team but not Capers when we had a winning team.

 

[swhitset]

I still don't get it why everyone around here is willing to give Petine a break with a losing team but not Capers when we had a winning team.

I’m not sure anyone could explain it to your satisfaction.

 

[Forget Favre]

Arguably the two best off season moves the organization has made in recent memory. Will take some time to climb out of the hole TT has dug.

Time is something hard for me to accept.
I want Rodgers to get at least one more SB wins before he retires and he is getting closer to being past his prime with each passing lousy season such as this one.

 

[Forget Favre]

I’m not sure anyone could explain it to your satisfaction.

I guess they will give Petine a break because they understand it's a readjustment period.
But that was never clear to me in the "Fire Capers" threads or posts that I saw.
No one ever brought it up with, "If Capers goes then we have to be patient with a new DC. OK?"
Instead it was all, "IM SO PISSED OFF AT CAPERS BECAUSE THOSE MISSED TACKLES ARE ALL HIS FAULT AND HE HAS TO GO RIGHT THE F NOW AND LETS ALL GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS AND RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN ON A RAIL AND WHO WILL GO WITH ME TO GB TO DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGG GRRRRRR ARRRRRGGGG!!!! "
Now everyone is sitting down around the campfire holding hands and singing Kumbaya, which is a nice song, while the Packers have a losing season but that is OK with everyone because their monster is gone.
Capers wins = He has to go. RIGHT NOW.
Petine loses = It's OK. We understand.

 

[swhitset]

I guess they will give Petine a break because they understand it's a readjustment period.
But that was never clear to me in the "Fire Capers" threads or posts that I saw.
No one ever brought it up with, "If Capers goes then we have to be patient with a new DC. OK?"
Instead it was all, "IM SO PISSED OFF AT CAPERS BECAUSE THOSE MISSED TACKLES ARE ALL HIS FAULT AND HE HAS TO GO RIGHT THE F NOW AND LETS ALL GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS AND RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN ON A RAIL AND WHO WILL GO WITH ME TO GB TO DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGG GRRRRRR ARRRRRGGGG!!!! "
Now everyone is sitting down around the campfire holding hands and singing Kumbaya, which is a nice song, while the Packers have a losing season but that is OK with everyone because their monster is gone.
Capers wins = He has to go. RIGHT NOW.
Petine loses = It's OK. We understand.

Have you ever heard the expression “it goes without saying”? Some things shouldn’t need an explanation.

At any rate I guess I’ll bite. The Packers are losing because the offense has been bad, and yes the defense is still learning a new system. The defense has been playing better than in the past, but they are certainly not there yet. The offense on the other hand... is not only no longer elite... but has been down right terrible (especially on 3rd down).

 

[Forget Favre]

Have you ever heard the expression “it goes without saying”? Some things shouldn’t need an explanation.

At any rate I guess I’ll bite. The Packers are losing because the offense has been bad, and yes the defense is still learning a new system. The defense has been playing better than in the past, but they are certainly not there yet. The offense on the other hand... is not only no longer elite... but has been down right terrible (especially on 3rd down).

Everything is wonky.
From the fans to the team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess they will give Petine a break because they understand it's a readjustment period.
But that was never clear to me in the "Fire Capers" threads or posts that I saw.
No one ever brought it up with, "If Capers goes then we have to be patient with a new DC. OK?"
Instead it was all, "IM SO PISSED OFF AT CAPERS BECAUSE THOSE MISSED TACKLES ARE ALL HIS FAULT AND HE HAS TO GO RIGHT THE F NOW AND LETS ALL GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS AND RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN ON A RAIL AND WHO WILL GO WITH ME TO GB TO DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGG GRRRRRR ARRRRRGGGG!!!! "
Now everyone is sitting down around the campfire holding hands and singing Kumbaya, which is a nice song, while the Packers have a losing season but that is OK with everyone because their monster is gone.
Capers wins = He has to go. RIGHT NOW.
Petine loses = It's OK. We understand.

Ever hear the expressions "Rome wasn't built in a day?" Nor are defenses. If you can't see that the defense is playing better this year under Pettine and Gute, then nothing anyone says here will change your mind. If you still aren't happy after giving them both adequate time to rebuild the mess that Capers and TT left behind, than feel free to douse our campfire and stomp on our marshmallows.

 

[gbgary]

Was getting rid of Capers and TT really the solution?

clearly not. they didn't go far enough. it should have been a complete house cleaning...including trading Rodgers. we'll look back and realize extending him was a huge mistake.

 

[Forget Favre]

clearly not. they didn't go far enough. it should have been a complete house cleaning...including trading Rodgers. we'll look back and realize extending him was a huge mistake.

I think you are being sarcastic...
But here is my thoughts on Rodgers re-signing up with them...
On the one hand I want him here because he is the best QB right now and our best chance at getting us to another SB.
On the other, if he leaves because GB is not giving him what he needs to get there, I wouldn't blame him if he left and went to a team that would be a better fit for hm with everything he needs.

 

[HardRightEdge]

As for the thread topic, it's just the start. Some hard decisions will be coming up, and I'm not just talking about McCarthy.

 

[swhitset]

As for the thread top, it's just the start. Some hard decisions will be coming up, and I'm not just talking about McCarthy.

Why so cryptic?

 

[rmontro]

Capers had more than enough time to turn things around. This is just Pettine's first season. Give him a chance. There are some positive things, such as GB leading the league in sacks, something I would not have believed if you had told me that before the season started.

 

[gbgary]

I think you are being sarcastic...
But here is my thoughts on Rodgers re-signing up with them...
On the one hand I want him here because he is the best QB right now and our best chance at getting us to another SB.
On the other, if he leaves because GB is not giving him what he needs to get there, I wouldn't blame him if he left and went to a team that would be a better fit for hm with everything he needs.

he still has the ability to be a good qb. he'll have to have a different mind set though. he's got to get back to taking what the D gives him. he's abandoned trying to get first downs for big plays. he's been this way for at least 3 seasons but this year it's off the charts. if he won't do it in this friendly offense, that he knows like the back of his hand, what makes us think he'll do it in a new offense? he doesn't want to be an efficient Brady-type qb. he wants to be the wow guy. it's killing our offense. he's become the down-trending, prima donna, overpaid, coach-killer, guy. you can't build around a guy like that without him becoming coachable again. i don't think his ego will allow it. can't trade him. it's too late. he's exposed himself. who'd want to deal with that and the enormous cap hit.

 

[Forget Favre]

he still has the ability to be a good qb. he'll have to have a different mind set though. he's got to get back to taking what the D gives him. he's abandoned trying to get first downs for big plays. he's been this way for at least 3 seasons but this year it's off the charts. if he won't do it in this friendly offense, that he knows like the back of his hand, what makes us think he'll do it in a new offense? he doesn't want to be an efficient Brady-type qb. he wants to be the wow guy. it's killing our offense. he's become the trending-down, prima donna, overpaid, coach-killer, guy. you can't build around a guy like that without him becoming coachable again. i don't think his ego will allow it. can't trade him. it's too late. he's exposed himself. who'd want to deal with that and the enormous cap hit.

Are we sure that's all on him and not the playcalling?

 

[Patriotplayer90]

he still has the ability to be a good qb. he'll have to have a different mind set though. he's got to get back to taking what the D gives him. he's abandoned trying to get first downs for big plays. he's been this way for at least 3 seasons but this year it's off the charts. if he won't do it in this friendly offense, that he knows like the back of his hand, what makes us think he'll do it in a new offense? he doesn't want to be an efficient Brady-type qb. he wants to be the wow guy. it's killing our offense. he's become the trending-down, prima donna, overpaid, coach-killer, guy. you can't build around a guy like that without him becoming coachable again. i don't think his ego will allow it. can't trade him. it's too late. he's exposed himself. who'd want to deal with that and the enormous cap hit.

Brady's offense is designed to get the ball to receivers and RBs underneath. He's not checking down. The reason that the offense isn't working is not because the QB doesn't check down. It's because the design of the offense is average and the play calling is bad.

 

[longtimefan]

Brady's offense is designed to get the ball to receivers and RBs underneath. He's not checking down. The reason that the offense isn't working is not because the QB doesn't check down. It's because the design of the offense is average and the play calling is bad.

So if he did throw to Jones they wouldn't have a new set of downs?

Regardless if play calling is the worse there ever was, the ck downs are not being utilized

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[AmishMafia]

Are we sure that's all on him and not the playcalling?

I dont think anyone thinks its ALL on AR. That would be foolish. But not as foolish to not recognize the serious lapses of ARs play.

IMHO I dont think MM will be back nor should he be. I dont think he has a firm grasp on the team anymore.

As far as Pettine goes, the defense is looking much better. Although we may lose more than under capers, the defense is holding up more of its end of the bargain.

 

[Forget Favre]

I dont think anyone thinks its ALL on AR. That would be foolish. But not as foolish to not recognize the serious lapses of ARs play.

IMHO I dont think MM will be back nor should he be. I dont think he has a firm grasp on the team anymore.

As far as Pettine goes, the defense is looking much better. Although we may lose more than under capers, the defense is holding up more of its end of the bargain.

For years we kept on seeing post after post of, "Capers is gone! He ain't coming back!" only then he would.
We do have a new GM so who knows?
I'm not making a prediction one way or the other if MM goes or stays.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

he still has the ability to be a good qb. he'll have to have a different mind set though. he's got to get back to taking what the D gives him. he's abandoned trying to get first downs for big plays. he's been this way for at least 3 seasons but this year it's off the charts. if he won't do it in this friendly offense, that he knows like the back of his hand, what makes us think he'll do it in a new offense? he doesn't want to be an efficient Brady-type qb. he wants to be the wow guy. it's killing our offense. he's become the down-trending, prima donna, overpaid, coach-killer, guy. you can't build around a guy like that without him becoming coachable again. i don't think his ego will allow it. can't trade him. it's too late. he's exposed himself. who'd want to deal with that and the enormous cap hit.

Rodgers has shown several flaws in his game this season but you're way over board with your assessment.

 

[AmishMafia]

For years we kept on seeing post after post of, "Capers is gone! He ain't coming back!" only then he would.
We do have a new GM so who knows?
I'm not making a prediction one way or the other if MM goes or stays.

The one year extension, to me, was a big indicator that he had only a year to prove himself. If Gute was committed to MM or would have been a longer deal. MM has shown little to suggest he should be kept around any longer.

Gute seems, so far, to be more likely to pull the trigger on changes.

 

[rmontro]

MM has shown little to suggest he should be kept around any longer.

This may actually be his worst year of coaching here.
Gute can't fire McCarthy though, Murphy has to. They didn't give Gute power to fire McCarthy, odd as it may seem.

 

[AmishMafia]

This may actually be his worst year of coaching here.
Gute can't fire McCarthy though, Murphy has to. They didn't give Gute power to fire McCarthy, odd as it may seem.

Yeah, I knew that. But part of me thinks that Mark Murphy discussed with Gute and MM and resolved the matter by compromise. MM didnt want to be a lame duck, nor did Gute. Tough to bring in FAs. MM wanted longer extension for job security, having a new GM who may want his guy. Compromise was 1 year extension and Murphy has HC responsibility.