Was getting rid of Capers and TT really the solution?

[swhitset]

If giving up 29 points is now considered
"Good", than the bar is set very low. Bottom line is the Rams didn't play their best, yet they still got said 29 points.

Thompson left this team in shambles. The fact he was left on as a scout is a disgrace. The man somehow screwd up a gold mine.

I'm starting to think 2010 was an outlier. Good players played over their heads for a month. The fact that type of success wasn't replicated proves as much.

While i get your point... the defense gave up 27 not 29... the offense gave up 2 plus a very short field after the safety allowing 6 more. That was against one of the top offenses in the league. We are comparing the defense against what it was ... not what it could become. How do you think last year’s defense would have fared against this years Rams? And that 2010 Super bowl team? that only played well for a month?... They went 15-1 the following season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If giving up 29 points is now considered
"Good", than the bar is set very low. Bottom line is the Rams didn't play their best, yet they still got said 29 points.

The Rams offense didn't play their best because the Packers defense didn't allow them to. It's true that giving up 29 points isn't great by any means but the unit definitely showed some promise.

 

[OldSchool101]

We’ve already seen vast improvement year 1 in our D (actually 1/2 year 1)
One thing many fans don’t consider when they want to “fire” everyone is that it becomes lost momentum.
It took a new system under Ron Wolf 6 years to win a SB. He was hired in 1991 and hired Holmgren and traded for Favre. Wolf then brought on Reggie in his 3rd year in 1993 and the the rest is history. Wolf is considered one of the best GMs in Packers history and it took him and Holmgren 6 years to win a SB.

The same went for TT and Mcarthy duo and similarly, they inherited a team over budget in 2005. It coincidentally also took them 6 full years (2005-2010) to go all the way.

The one advantage we have now is MM and Gute have indirectly worked together so conceivable that type time should be hastened now that they are the next duo and MM was the incumbent. This is part of the reason that I guessed 2020 as the most likely year to win a SB in another thread. That’s probably on the Optimistic, wishful side.

Can we win in 2018? It’s always the obvious goal but let’s be realistic here we’re missing too many pieces right now. It would take shear determination and a firm resolve and that still might not overcome personnel deficiencies.

It takes time to acquire resources and then in the player personnel department to develop said resources. As far as FO? time you fire a HC or GM or both? You just reset the clock back multiple years!. You can see that the current front office is acutely aware that this is a mini-rebuild in their actions. The Montgomery move wasn’t just a knee jerk, it’s just the latest statement showing a clear distinction beetween a team who’s desperate (although I’m also admittedly in that impatient or frustrated fan grouping) and a team with a short range strategy. We also saw early signs when they departed with Randall, traded back for an extra future first day pick, etc.. etc... the list goes on

Id even be willing to bet they had a plan A and a plan B as to how that 4th rounder gets position designated already. They may be thinking a future player trade, moving up the board or just using that pick in an area of necessity more than Receiver.. were obviously flush there already and it’s no coincidence we parted ways with an injury/sick prone (not trying to be mean just fact stating) player after a couple recent, rookie wide receiver big performances.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

As I've said, Capers wasn't as much of a problem as the talent was. Take away Williams, Alexander, Jackson, and King and just imagine how good this defense would be; that's the talent that Capers was working with. That being said, he needed to go because the entire narrative for the team was that the defense was the problem. Now that he's gone people are finally starting to notice the failings of MM.

 

[brandon2348]

This is about the most ridiculous thread i've seen in quite some time. You simply can't offset the total cumulative damage done by TT and Capers in one off-season. I was hopeful we could and maybe we still can with the young guys getting better but it's called "turning over the roster". I'm glad Gute is jettisoning just about everything with TT's hands on it except the obvious keepers which are few and far between. Talk about a turd clean up job.

It may not feel like it right now to some but were finally heading in the right direction. I couldn't honestly say that a couple years ago. Its pretty obvious to see already that we had one of the best drafts we have had in years.

I believe we are one more good swing at the wheel(and a complete offseason) by Gute from being the team we all want.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And why do you think they didn't play their best? Maybe it had something to do with the defense they were facing. Ever think of that?

I would have just countered with "well the Packers offense didn't play its best either." Why give credit to the Rams defense

 

[HardRightEdge]

The defense is much better than in the last couple of years. Early returns say this past draft is better than what Thompson provided in recent years. While I'm not crazy about the FA signings, there's nothing on par with the Bennett bungle. You are looking at Gutekunst and Pettine reaping what Thompson and Capers sowed.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Bottom line is the Rams didn't play their best, yet they still got said 29 points.

Actually, the Rams did play their best.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If giving up 29 points is now considered
"Good", than the bar is set very low. Bottom line is the Rams didn't play their best, yet they still got said 29 points.

No, it's not a low bar. You apparently have no understanding of how skewed the rules are against the defense now. It's not 1990. In the last 10 years there has been an average of about 27 40+ point games per year. 30 years ago you might see 15 40-point games. The NFL is currently on pace for about 42 40-point games this year. This is just evidence of how Goodell and the rules committee has been destroying football. So when you hold what was the #2 scoring offense to 27 points, it is definitely considered "Good."

And yes, you read right. I said 27 points because our defense had nothing to do with 2 of those points.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm starting to think 2010 was an outlier.

If this is what an outlier looks like, I'll take it every damn time:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No, it's not a low bar. You apparently have no understanding of how skewed the rules are against the defense now. It's not 1990. In the last 10 years there has been an average of about 27 40+ point games per year. 30 years ago you might see 15 40-point games. The NFL is currently on pace for about 42 40-point games this year.

The NFL is on pace to set a new record for points scored with teams averaging 24.1 points per game this season, easily breaking the previous one of 23.4 set in 2013.

I don't consider the game to be ruined because teams score an average of approximately a field goal more than they did 30 years ago though.

 

[McKnowledge]

Look at where we are this year compared to past seasons.
We were at or near the top while this time we are just struggling to not be on life support.
We still have a chance but it doesn't look like there is much of one compared to before.

R-E-L-A-X

 

[PackerDNA]

Also consider that the Rams had the ball for over 34 minutes and ran 75 plays to our 52. I think the defense was starting to get worn down at the end

 

[Half Empty]

If this is what an outlier looks like, I'll take it every damn time:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Pretty sure we all know that they brought home the Lombardi in 2010, but 'outlier' means something is the exception, not the rule, so you're telling us you're happy with the one SB win?

 

[OldSchool101]

Also consider that the Rams had the ball for over 34 minutes and ran 75 plays to our 52. I think the defense was starting to get worn down at the end

Interesting. I mentioned before the game that GB would have to control the ball for 32+ min to keep the D fresh and win this one. Had we had a final drive that would’ve helped but 4 extra minutes against a potent Offense is a huge disadvantage. No wonder we lost!

 

[OldSchool101]

Again, changing a GM, OC and DC all in the same year is like taking 2 steps backwards that first year. It’ll take this full year to step one pace forward and next year to improve markedly and gain cohesiveness.

This is no different than politics. The new administration always has to step back, evaluate and clean up the deficiencies of the previous regime. It takes 2 years minimum to see the new changes gain enough positive momentum to see a marked difference.

 

[BrokenArrow]

The NFL is on pace to set a new record for points scored with teams averaging 24.1 points per game this season, easily breaking the previous one of 23.4 set in 2013.

I don't consider the game to be ruined because teams score an average of approximately a field goal more than they did 30 years ago though.

I consider it on the path to ruin because they have made it more and more difficult to play defense.

 

[El Guapo]

It's a head scratcher why you guys are willing to give the new guy a break and not Capers even though we don't have a better record at this point when we should have.

I don't know how old you are, but go back and watch the 2009 season again. At the mid-season point, fans were screaming about how bad the communication was on defense. It took until about mid-season for guys to understand the changes in terminology, trust the calls, and really understand the defensive playbook.

Fans expect instant results when it just isn't feasible most of the time. Just because Sean McVay swiftly changed the Rams, doesn't mean it's the standard. It's the exception and one worth noting. Lombardi was fond of saying that the Packers would chase perfection and hopefully catch excellence along the way. Every team strives to hit the ground running with new coaches, but that's just not often the case.

If Pettine is a good coach, we should start to see it in the second half of the season. The play of our young DBs might make it that much easier on him.

 

[Passepartout]

Yeah and really people want immediate results. But these things take time. It could be a blessing in disguise. Or could be such a not so good idea.

 

[PackerDNA]

While i get your point... the defense gave up 27 not 29... the offense gave up 2 plus a very short field after the safety allowing 6 more. That was against one of the top offenses in the league. We are comparing the defense against what it was ... not what it could become. How do you think last year’s defense would have fared against this years Rams? And that 2010 Super bowl team? that only played well for a month?... They went 15-1 the following season.

It's the last sentence I disagree with. The 15 -1 team had to outscore people every week.

 

[swhitset]

It's the last sentence I disagree with. The 15 -1 team had to outscore people every week.

Which clearly is not the point of the rebuttal you jumped into.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Pretty sure we all know that they brought home the Lombardi in 2010, but 'outlier' means something is the exception, not the rule, so you're telling us you're happy with the one SB win?

I'm happy with any SB win. My point is calling a Lombardi Trophy an outlier belittles its significance. Championships are always the exception.

 

[PackerDNA]

Which clearly is not the point of the rebuttal you jumped into.

I see the distinction now.

 

[easyk83]

As I've said, Capers wasn't as much of a problem as the talent was. Take away Williams, Alexander, Jackson, and King and just imagine how good this defense would be; that's the talent that Capers was working with. That being said, he needed to go because the entire narrative for the team was that the defense was the problem. Now that he's gone people are finally starting to notice the failings of MM.

But was the talent the problem or the inability of Capers to A) utilize the talent that he had or B) the failure of he and his staff to develop talent? We could have two pro bowl caliber safeties right now in Randall and Hyde if Capers had been able to use those two better.

 

[easyk83]

Pretty sure we all know that they brought home the Lombardi in 2010, but 'outlier' means something is the exception, not the rule, so you're telling us you're happy with the one SB win?

You do realize that most GMs fail to build a team to even make it into a Superbowl. Just getting to one is an achievement in this league and besides in the Thompson era the Packers played in what 4 NFC championships? Thats a lot of times knocking on the door in one GMs tenure.