Vikings Cardinals Do we...

[Un4GivN]

you're confusing saying this defense is good enough, and thinking i'm saying they have the best player in the history of the league at their respective positions.

This defense is good enough to win it all, the fact there are only a small handful of defenses that are maybe playing better than them says exactly what i've said since the beginning.

When have I ever brought up the history of the league? What players that I brought up are not currently playing? What is it with people on the forum BLOWING UP arguments to outrageous levels. I never even said anything that could be remotely construed as comparing them to the best defenses in history.

We have a defense that is somewhere between Top 5 and Bottom 10. All I am saying is it isn't until we play a worthy team that you can decide. 4 weeks in a row of facing teams that 19th or below in offense per game can give you some rose colored glasses.

All I am saying is that a "defense good enough to win it all" is quite a statement given what we have seen this year so far. You could be absolutely right. Then again you could be waaay off base given what I have seen this year. It is only when we play a team that has an actual offense that we will know.

 

[Un4GivN]

IMO, this defense isn't great, but almost to a man is playing better then last year and could be called an above average defense. If we had the same offense on the field as last year, we may be sitting at 11-1 give or take a game. So if the offense ever decides to show up this year, I'm pretty comfortable with the defense.

Look at it this way, how active has the *Fire Capers* thread been active this season?

Lol I agree, but I think that might have something to do with the offense being worse... So the chants go from fire Capers to fire MM or OC.

Just the nature of the beast. Don't think that necessarily means the defense is good enough to win it all.

 

[Mondio]

bottom 10? talk about ridiculous levels.

I'd say realistically, they're top 12, probably between 8-4 and I don't need to see them play another game. Seattle gets to feast on the likes of San Fran twice a year and a Rams team that didn't have a RB the first time they played or a QB the 2nd and they gave up 34 to them. They gave up 27 to our crap offense too. a couple of 400+ games and a 500+ game just 2 weeks ago.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With the current state of the offense, it would be up to the Defense to "win it all", this I am afraid won't happen. So unless the offense steps up, talk of how good our defense currently is or is not, really won't matter.

 

[Mondio]

With the current state of the offense, it would be up to the Defense to "win it all", this I am afraid won't happen. So unless the offense steps up, talk of how good our defense currently is or is not, really won't matter.

which is what I said

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

which is what I said

Don't shoot the messenger I am just summarizing LOL

Now if our Defense would start forcing more turnovers as well as either scoring off them or giving our offense a short field AKA Bears Defense 1985, things could happen.

 

[Un4GivN]

bottom 10? talk about ridiculous levels.

I'd say realistically, they're top 12, probably between 8-4 and I don't need to see them play another game. Seattle gets to feast on the likes of San Fran twice a year and a Rams team that didn't have a RB the first time they played or a QB the 2nd and they gave up 34 to them. They gave up 27 to our crap offense too. a couple of 400+ games and a 500+ game just 2 weeks ago.

Just wait... Ill make a thread after the Arizona game discussing the defense. And will be 100% willing to admit whatever it is I see in that game against a good offense.

Also I notice the fact you ignore that I leave the possibility that they are a top 5 defense out. Only to make a point about the other side of it since I'm not as convinced as you.

And the answer to where I have compared them to a NFL historical defense was left out as well. Interesting...

 

[Mondio]

Just wait... Ill make a thread after the Arizona game discussing the defense. And will be 100% willing to admit whatever it is I see in that game against a good offense.

Also I notice the fact you ignore that I leave the possibility that they are a top 5 defense out. Only to make a point about the other side of it since I'm not as convinced as you.

And the answer to where I have compared them to a NFL historical defense was left out as well. Interesting...

oh, sorry I didn't address the fact that you said they'll rank somewhere between 1 and 32 in terms of defense this year. LOL

I asserted they're good enough to win it all with an offense that isn't losing yards on 5 of first 6 half possessions and you seem to assert they aren't, or more specifically about all you'll commit to is that they'll rank somewhere between bottom 10 or top 5, thanks for the insight?


Every team is capable of giving up big yards, Seattle just gave up or 500 more recently than GB did. Just think if they didn't even have the benefit of their offense going for a whopping 140 yards and putting their defense is fantastic positions from which to play defense from LOL

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I'm unsure exactly what to think regarding the Vikings' loss last night. Obviously they were in position to win numerous times, coughed the ball up, and couldn't close out the deal. Yeah, obviously the Cardinals looked more beatable last night than they have at numerous other points in the season, but the Vikings also almost beat Denver in their place and we didn't compete so good in that game.

It's just been one of those years where nothing seems to make sense. Cardinals lose at home to the Rams earlier this year but then almost shut them out the 2nd time around, one week the Vikes look like they could almost play with anyone, the next they look like a JV team, Eagles get annihilated by both Tampa Bay and Detroit then win in New England, Bengals' first loss comes at the hands of a struggling Texans team. It's just that kind of year.

That being said, if our D can slow down AZ's offense to the degree that Minny did, I like our chances even with our O. Right now we just need that one other receiver to step to the plate alongside Richard Rodgers and get it done.

 

[Un4GivN]

oh, sorry I didn't address the fact that you said they'll rank somewhere between 1 and 32 in terms of defense this year. LOL

I asserted they're good enough to win it all with an offense that isn't losing yards on 5 of first 6 half possessions and you seem to assert they aren't, or more specifically about all you'll commit to is that they'll rank somewhere between bottom 10 or top 5, thanks for the insight?


Every team is capable of giving up big yards, Seattle just gave up or 500 more recently than GB did. Just think if they didn't even have the benefit of their offense going for a whopping 140 yards and putting their defense is fantastic positions from which to play defense from LOL

No once again taking what I say out of context to try attack the character of my post when I have said the same thing to you 10 times.

The defense is unproven.... They have **** the bed against some good teams. And played lights out against some bad ones. It remains to be seen if against an elite offense they hold their ground which is what you will have in the playoffs. Im still not convinced they dont let Arizona put up 50.

Damn I had no idea stating that I will have to wait and see what they are heading into the playoff stretch would be taken as a personal attack lol.

I'll save my judgement till the last four games. That is all.

 

[RRyder]

What?

Maybe I explained incorrectly. What I meant was...

To me, as a super bowl champion you should be able to beat anyone that comes in the playoffs. They don't need to hope for one team, or pray they don't get another.

Granted some teams can prey upon your weakness more than others. But honestly I don't care if we play the Seahawks and Arizona consecutively. You have to beat the best to be the best. And if you can't, do you really deserve the title?

I don't disagree. But I won't apologize if we get a favorable matchup either. Just gotta beat whoever we draw whenever we draw them

 

[Mondio]

No once again taking what I say out of context to try attack the character of my post when I have said the same thing to you 10 times.

The defense is unproven.... They have **** the bed against some good teams. And played lights out against some bad ones. It remains to be seen if against an elite offense they hold their ground which is what you will have in the playoffs. Im still not convinced they dont let Arizona put up 50.

Damn I had no idea stating that I will have to wait and see what they are heading into the playoff stretch would be taken as a personal attack lol.

I'll save my judgement till the last four games. That is all.

don't worry, it's not personal. I just find it odd that one criteria for saying GB is unproven isn't applied equally to the teams you think are clearly championship caliber defenses. Seattle just gave up 30 and 500 yards 2 weeks ago, they've also given up 439 and 415 this year. Toss in a couple others near 400 yards and it appears they do a fair amount of feasting on lesser teams too. Just like everyone else.

 

[milani]

As we have no idea how the rest of the season will shape up I root for the Packers to win the division first and foremost. So I'll be rooting for the Cardinals tomorrow.

Definitely have to win the division even though we won a SB as a wild card. A home game means a lot of revenue for Titletown. As history shows us we went to both Arizona and Seattle in the postseason and magically let both games slip through our fingers. Right now we should focus on trying to win out until our season ends no matter who or where the opponent is. Nothing will be easy. And after the sickening ending the last 4 years there should be some resolve left in this team.

 

[Un4GivN]

don't worry, it's not personal. I just find it odd that one criteria for saying GB is unproven isn't applied equally to the teams you think are clearly championship caliber defenses. Seattle just gave up 30 and 500 yards 2 weeks ago, they've also given up 439 and 415 this year. Toss in a couple others near 400 yards and it appears they do a fair amount of feasting on lesser teams too. Just like everyone else.

I see what you are saying fair point... Maybe Im being a bit biased to them because of their history over the last couple years. Interesting thought though.

 

[adambr2]

I was leaning slightly toward hoping for a Cardinal loss, but looking at it now I'm happy with the result for a couple reasons.

- We are clearly in the driver's seat for the division now. Even if our struggles continue, we need to win just 1 of the next 3 to be playing for another division title in Week 17. Obviously, limping into the playoffs is not an ideal scenario, but it's good to know that a home victory over Minnesota in Week 17 will now all but assure the 3 seed.

- If we start playing up to our abilities and get hot, the 2 seed is still in play. A Cardinal loss in Philly next week is unlikely, but a Week 17 loss against a hungry Seahawks team trying to get into the playoffs is definitely a possibility.

 

[Packerlifer]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/73257/what-happened-on-the-vikings-final-play-vs-cardinals

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/11/zimmer-we-probably-could-have-called-something-else-on-final-play/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-on-freeneys-spin-bridgewater-was-too-slow/

 

[PackerDNA]

I don't see the Cards losing before they play us, so best case is win out, and hope Seattle comes through vs the Cards in week 17. The game will almost certainly be of huge importance for the Seahawks.
If this scenario comes about, then week 17 could be a double dip for the Pack; the division title and #2 seed.

 

[sschind]

What?

Maybe I explained incorrectly. What I meant was...

To me, as a super bowl champion you should be able to beat anyone that comes in the playoffs. They don't need to hope for one team, or pray they don't get another.

Granted some teams can prey upon your weakness more than others. But honestly I don't care if we play the Seahawks and Arizona consecutively. You have to beat the best to be the best. And if you can't, do you really deserve the title?

Being the winner is more important than being the best. If the Seahawks and Cardinals lose to teams other than the Packers and the Packers go on to win the SB they sure as heck do deserve it. IMO the easiest road is the best road. I really don't care who we beat as long as we beat them.

I'm guessing you wish Romo was playing tomorrow as well. The old "I wanna beat em at their best" crap. Not me and I wish Witten and Bryant were out as well. Not that I wish them injuries but I'm hoping they go out and miss curfew tonight.

I was leaning slightly toward hoping for a Cardinal loss, but looking at it now I'm happy with the result for a couple reasons.

- We are clearly in the driver's seat for the division now. Even if our struggles continue, we need to win just 1 of the next 3 to be playing for another division title in Week 17. Obviously, limping into the playoffs is not an ideal scenario, but it's good to know that a home victory over Minnesota in Week 17 will now all but assure the 3 seed.

- If we start playing up to our abilities and get hot, the 2 seed is still in play. A Cardinal loss in Philly next week is unlikely, but a Week 17 loss against a hungry Seahawks team trying to get into the playoffs is definitely a possibility.

This is sort of the way I felt going in. There was very little chance I was going to be rooting for the vikings. Its just not in my DNA to do so so it has to be under very special circumstances that I will. Thursday night just wasn't special enough. However, had the vikings won I would have looked upon the opportunity presented to the Packers as a reason to be fine with it. Bottom line, I wanted the Cardinals to win but a vikings victory would not have upset me.

I'm unsure exactly what to think regarding the Vikings' loss last night. Obviously they were in position to win numerous times, coughed the ball up, and couldn't close out the deal. Yeah, obviously the Cardinals looked more beatable last night than they have at numerous other points in the season, but the Vikings also almost beat Denver in their place and we didn't compete so good in that game.

It's just been one of those years where nothing seems to make sense. Cardinals lose at home to the Rams earlier this year but then almost shut them out the 2nd time around, one week the Vikes look like they could almost play with anyone, the next they look like a JV team, Eagles get annihilated by both Tampa Bay and Detroit then win in New England, Bengals' first loss comes at the hands of a struggling Texans team. It's just that kind of year.

That being said, if our D can slow down AZ's offense to the degree that Minny did, I like our chances even with our O. Right now we just need that one other receiver to step to the plate alongside Richard Rodgers and get it done.

It has been one of those years but the "Team A beat Team B and team B beat team C therefore Team A should beat team C" thinking is never valid. Certainly it works out that way sometimes but its nothing you an count on. I'm not saying this is what you are doing but when you start to look at the season the way you described it in your second paragraph its easy to do just that. I get that you were stressing more on the ups and downs of any particular team rather than their opponents.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

It has been one of those years but the "Team A beat Team B and team B beat team C therefore Team A should beat team C" thinking is never valid. Certainly it works out that way sometimes but its nothing you an count on. I'm not saying this is what you are doing but when you start to look at the season the way you described it in your second paragraph its easy to do just that. I get that you were stressing more on the ups and downs of any particular team rather than their opponents.

And that is pretty much it, lotta people seemed to bring up the Vikes almost winning as a sure sign we'll succeed in AZ, and I was merely pointing out that it didn't necessarily change my skepticism. Today in football, it's all about matchups, Minny may have matched up better against Denver than we did, they might matchup better against AZ than we do too, or perhaps we do matchup better against AZ than they do, won't know till we play them. I certainly think we'll have our work cut out though going up against David Johnson to add to the things that we gotta defend against.

 

[Raptorman]

As long as the Cards beat the Packers they will be the number 2 seed. That is the only game they need to win from here on out.

 

[Un4GivN]

And that is pretty much it, lotta people seemed to bring up the Vikes almost winning as a sure sign we'll succeed in AZ, and I was merely pointing out that it didn't necessarily change my skepticism. Today in football, it's all about matchups, Minny may have matched up better against Denver than we did, they might matchup better against AZ than we do too, or perhaps we do matchup better against AZ than they do, won't know till we play them. I certainly think we'll have our work cut out though going up against David Johnson to add to the things that we gotta defend against.

I'm looking forward to seeing how we deal with Arizona's deep speed... If you are off by just a step on one play its 7 points. So I think if we can cover that. I think we will fair ok.

 

[Raptorman]

I'm looking forward to seeing how we deal with Arizona's deep speed... If you are off by just a step on one play its 7 points. So I think if we can cover that. I think we will fair ok.

They play a lot of 6 DB football, mainly for the speed.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I'm looking forward to seeing how we deal with Arizona's deep speed... If you are off by just a step on one play its 7 points. So I think if we can cover that. I think we will fair ok.

I'm looking forward to, or dreading seeing how we are going to address the passing game so that it at least has a minor chance of being successful against this secondary. If they go in with all of the same players or plan, then forget it.