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Tyni's Draft Final Days Thread

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by tynimiller, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Just going to consolidate a bunch of thoughts here on one thread. There is an abbreviated mock at the end of precisely what I want to see Gute do assuming guys like Bateman, Newsome and Collins are gone and no trade ups to get matched what we were willing to give up.

    Only two players exist that I think may fall to to that 19-21 range and I'd be 100% willing to give up draft equity for:

    Rashod Bateman WR
    Greg Newsome CB


    My clusters going primarily off of memory, not an all inclusive list as I no doubt forgot some as I wrote this...

    First Round
    Jayson Oweh EDGE
    Samuel Cosmi OT
    Creed Humphrey iOL/C
    Alex Leatherwood OT
    Jamin Davis LB
    Zaven Collins LB
    Terrence Marshall WR
    Trevon Moehrig S
    Christian Barmore iDL

    Second Round
    Rondale Moore WR
    Kadarius Toney WR
    Dillon Radunz OT
    Nico Collins WR (I personally have graded as a 1st)
    Milton Williams iDL
    Daviyon Nixon iDL
    Jabril Cox LB
    Spencer Brown OT
    Walker Little OT
    Josh Myers iOL/C
    Quinn Meinerz iOL/C
    Asante Samuel CB
    Paulson Adebo CB
    Richie Grant S

    Third Round
    D'wayne Eskridge WR
    Amari Rodgers WR
    Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR
    Tommy Doyle OT
    Stone Forsythe OT
    Alim McNeil iDL
    Robert Rochell CB/S
    Ambry Thomas CB
    Benjamin St. Juste CB
    Tommy Tremble TE
    Ben Cleveland OG
    Caden Sterns S
    Osa Odighizuwa iDL
    Cameron Sample DE/DT/EDGE


    Fourth Round
    Trill Williams CB
    Andre Cisco S
    Joshua Bledsoe S
    Kary Vincent Jr CB
    Daelin Hayes EDGE
    Sadarius Hutcherson iOL
    Drew Dalman C
    Tommy Kraemer iOL
    Rashad Weaver EDGE/DE
    Brendan Jaimes OT
    Khyris Tonga iDL/NT
    Charles Snowden LB
    Dylan Moses LB
    Shaun Wade slotCB
    Tre McKitty TE
    Dez Fitzpatrick WR
    Anthony Schwartz WR

    Rest of Day 3
    Aaron Banks iOL
    David Moore iOL
    Robert Hainsey OL
    Josh Ball OT
    Jaylon Moore OT
    Josh Imatorbhebhe WR
    Simi Fehoko WR
    Cornell Powell WR
    Jaelon Darden WR
    Demetric Felton WR
    Avery Williams CB
    Shakur Brown
    Bryan Mills CB
    Chris Wilcox CB
    Lamont Wade S
    Darrick Forrest S
    Cary Angeline TE
    Luke Farrel TE
    Jake Stoll TE
    Tony Poljan TE
    Nick Niemann LB
    Garrett Wallow LB
    Anthony Hines III LB
    Forrest Merril iDL
    Jonathan Marshall iDL
    Darius Stills iDL
    Bobby Brown iDL
    Mustafa Johnson iDL
    TaQuon Graham iDL
    Jared Goldwire iDL
    William Bradley-King EDGE
    Shaka Toney EDGE
    Elijah Mitchell RB
    Chris Evans RB
    CJ Marable RB
    Pooka Williams RB
    Javian Hawkins RB


    WR projections - Personally unless we trade up for Bateman, Terrence Marshall falls to us OR we overdraft to some, reach to others on Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney or Nico Collins with our first pick. I think we are looking at a second round trade up or a wait till Day 3 to hear a WR name called. Those 6 plus Amari Rodgers and even Amon St. Brown I predict to be gone by the time pick #62 rolls around...and there isn't a WR I like for our fit that I have ranked except maybe a Dwayne Eskridge or Ihmir...but both at #62 I'd strongly argue is like taking Dillon where we did, round early on a potentially solid player..but early nontheless.

    I think a surprise pick might just be an EDGE guy early like Oweh, which is not a 2021 need at all...but like Gary is a for the future pick on a special player. Likewise if Tommy Tremble is there in the third don't be shocked to hear Green Bay call another 3rd round TE - I think Gute and MLF both are very high on Tremble and what he can and would do in this system - also provide a possible safety net for whatever happens with Tonyan's future.

    I do predict we see two WRs come our way. One will be our prototypical taller, possession style WR with upside like Ihmir Smith-Marsett, Simi Fehoko, Josh Imatorbhebhe or Cornell Powell to name a few BUT I think we also add either an absolute burner for deep threat should MVS leave in FA like Anthony Schwartz in later rounds or a later round slot/sweep type guy like Jaelon Darden, Tutu Atwell, Cade Johnson.

    We won't hear a RB's name at all or 6th round at the earliest is another projection of mine. Outside chance that should like a Trey Sermon type be there in the 4th Gute cannot resist...but I love some of the 6th/7th round most likely options to complement and learn behind Jones/Dillon.


    Given I want Newsome, Bateman or Collins in the first...but thinking all 3 will be gone - I predict a trade back...which I incorporated in my last week mock I won't do a full write up just share. Traded back, then up twice actually:

    Pick 29 for Jets #34, and two 5ths (#146, #154)

    #34 - Jayson Oweh EDGE
    #49 - Kadarius Toney WR - Traded #62(2nd), #142 (4th) & #154(5th) for #49
    #92 - Stone Forsythe OT
    #110 - Robert Rochell DB - Traded #135(4th), #178(5th) for #110
    #146 - Drew Dalman C
    #173 - Josh Imatorbhebhe WR
    #214 - Avery Williams CB/KR/PR
    #220 - Nick Niemann LB
    #256 - CJ Marable RB
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  2. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    We like a lot of the same players.

    It's interesting, I just heard Zierlein say that there are teams that have Cosmi at guard. He and Thorn, my favorite OL analysts, are not high on him. For what that's worth.

    I like your mock generally, though I am not enamored with Toney, and I would hope for more DB help than that, given that King, Sullivan, and Jackson are all in contract years.

    Zaven Collins is another guy I just can't get there with. Physically/athletically, he's a pass rusher. But he isn't a pass rusher in terms of skill set. Skill-set wise, he's a WILL. But at 260-270 lbs, there's no way that he plays that way in the league. So I just have no idea what you end up doing with him.
     
  3. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Seems like people think Cosmi has really bad technique, plus athleticism.
     
  4. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    So you have Nico Collins as a 1st rounder, but taking him at 29 (3 picks from the end of the round) would be a reach?
     
  5. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    You missed the crucial part where I state OR we overdraft to some, reach to others on Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney or Nico Collins with our first pick.

    Personally I have Nico as a 1st round grade. I place Elijah Moore right on the cusp, with Toney and Rondale close but behind.
     
  6. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I have Cosmi sliding inside most likely, with Tackle experience in a pinch. I buck the measurables on him more than perhaps one should, but I like him.
     
  7. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I'll go a step further and dig through what are some of my favorite guys to predict and then see if my gut is right: Day 3 gem finds:

    Nick Niemann and Garrett Wallow LBs - These two linebackers are in the same "newer" vein LBs on the lighter side, Wallow with past Safety experience before switching. They offer the athleticism for sideline to sideline coverage responsibilities more than most. BUT unlike some of the lighter LBs that fear contact, both of these guys are willing strikers of the ball carrier. Nick however shines even more than Wallow in that he seems to LOVE to attack the ball carrier. Rarely does a ball carrier leave his grasp when he touches them. I'm not saying either one of them is going to be All Pros...but I could easily foresee guys that lay down solid careers of constant contributions for their teams for multiple contracts - which on Day 3 is more than you should hope for.

    Cade Johnson WR - I don't necessarily think he will come to us, nor that he is the type that will attract us. But I just love everything about Cade Johnson and his grit. Undersized - he doesn't care. Not the most skilled - doesn't care. He has a barely over 3 RAS score and reminds me of a 2019 prospect I love that just plays well despite every measurable you apply: Hunter Renfrow.

    CJ Marable RB - This Coastal Carolina running back fits perfectly in a pass happy league with solid outside running abilities as well. I don't project him to ever be the #1 back on a team, but this dude will have a backup fit in the league and deliver dependable production I think for years.

    William Bradley-King EDGE - I love everything about WBK and his slow journey to Baylor that took him through a few stops. He has a lot of growth left, but is clearly still growing and ascending into the player he will become. The right team and fit, I think he can find a very solid depth role on a team and even play into a second contract possibly.

    Jaelon Darden WR - Been overlooked his whole life...even now folks are discrediting this North Texas prospect for who he did battle with in college. All he did is produce against everyone he saw and wakes up every day hoping to make everyone miss. He does fit the MLF system and I think that coupled with Aaron Rodgers this dude could be due for some nasty highlight reels on Sundays!

    Bryan Mills CB - My boy, that everyone knows I believe in. I'll not waste much typing - just call it a hunch. This cat is going to succeed.
     
  8. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    @Dantés we overlap often in players we like because I think both of us put a substantial amount of weight on the RAS of a prospect.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    We have no shot at Collins. He wont be getting to 20, and may go before 15. He is going to be really good at the NFL level, a difference maker. He will do very well with pass rush and stopping the run. He is a very smart player. He has coverage skills as well that will develop. I think he will have nearly the impact as Devin White, but just doesnt have the same leadership making-guys-around-you-better of White.

    Should we somehow draft him, he will be one of the most impactful players we could possibly get (other than the top 2 CBs). He could take the defense to a new level even as a rookie.
     
  10. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Could be! He could be Leighton Vander Esch. I just don't see quite that level of athlete. I don't really buy him as a pass rusher, and I have serious doubts that a 260 lb linebacker is going to excel in coverage in the NFL.

    If they take a linebacker in the 1st round, I'd want Jamin Davis.
     
  11. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Bet MGM has Collins' over/under for his draft slot at 24.5. I'd be A OK if he goes before their pick.
     
  12. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I love Zaven Collins but I think many are seeing his "shorts" speed and are envisioning him easily covering even slot guys at the NFL level...just not the case. I do think Zaven is going to be very good at the NFL level, but if I want a coverage based LB it's Davis, Cox and even Surratt for me before Collins. However, Collins offers pass rush skillsets none of the others can, atleast not presently. He also handles blockers better than those I listed.
     
  13. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I think there is a good chance Jamin is there for our pick. I'm all for it. Love the name and would love the speed/tenacity/ coverage he would bring.

    But would prefer Collins. As far as hoping he is LVE, not sure if that was a joke. LVE would be his floor, with his likely level being top 10, with top potential being top 3.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  14. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Just want to say, if the Packers draft one if the ilb's projected to be there over ANY of the top 5 corners, receivers, or tackles then I will be SERIOUSLY pissed. This defense has too many holes for an ilb to fix.

    ILB is the least important position on defense. You put an all-pro ILB on this team and any team with a decent QB in the playoffs is just throwing at Kevin King or the slot all day. Yeah, a better ilb would shore up the defense issue covering tight ends (well, the good tight ends but not the elite ones) but that's not going to matter when the secondary is playing one good corner. I could be convinced that a dline player is an option because it could pressure the qb AND help keep the current ilb's free but just sticking a rookie ilb on this defense? He'll look good against bad teams but won't do much against the good teams. Oh, and who exactly is playing corner NEXT year when King's contract is up and we're doing this while thing again?!

    I would ecstatically take Toney or Moore over any of the ilb's projected to fall to the Packers because at least then it might be easier to outscore other elite teams with good defenses.
     
  15. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I don’t agree.

    Collins didn’t show much as a pass rusher. He got some sacks, but I don’t see what he did working in the NFL.

    He ran at 260, but recently weighed in at 270 for the medical combine.

    He ran a 4.67 at his pro day, so he’s probably a 4.75 at the combine or around there. That’s a good number if he’s an edge rusher, but he’s not. He’s a 6’4 ILB that struggles to get off of blocks because he plays so dang high. Vander Esch was a lot better athlete, imo.

    I think the best way for me to describe Collins is that he has a throwback ILB body, with the play style of a more modern coverage ILB, but not the athleticism. The concept seems really intriguing, but I just don’t see it working out that well. He’s not super physical. I think he’s a day 2 player, but I wouldn’t take him in GB.
     
  16. DoURant

    DoURant Go Pack Go!

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    I don't see the 1st Rd, hype in Oweh, although he has seemed to drop into the 2nd Rd in most mocks lately. Oweh didn't have any sacks last year... in contrast, Gary only had 3 his final college year, maybe his best football is to come like Rashan's
     
  17. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Don't judge a guy solely based on a stat line. Until the playoffs happened, anyone asking me what game was MVS's best last year I will 100% without thinking say the Eagles game. Zero receptions, zero yards.
     
  18. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Don't take that wrong though, I know many have him as a 2nd round guy, some might argue even later. I'd only counter someone's thought process if purely going off stat production.
     
  19. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I know that LVE in recent years has been hampered by injuries, but he really excelled immediately when he hit the league. Calling that Collins' floor is quite the statement. I think his floor is Jahlani Tavai.
     
  20. DoURant

    DoURant Go Pack Go!

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    I know he has a lot of potential and is a freak, but I just think that too much is put into measurables now.... Now don't get me wrong, the Packers are the RAS team if any team is. I think most of his hype came from 2019, and expectations were high coming in to 2020. I just get nervous when a top EDGE doesn't have any sacks in their last college season. Even though he didn't have a sack, he did have a decent amount of tackles and TFL's
     
  21. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    The TFLs in many systems are a stronger indicator than if he managed to when pinning ears back get to the QB. I 100% get it though and the questions are why some say he could be a 2nd round steal. I don't think he slides past 45 or so personally.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Preemptively marrying yourself to anger. Solid.
     
  23. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I prefer to look at as a long term relationship with making smart choices with occasional dalliances into anger when ppl in charge of my favorite teams make dumb choices. Maybe it's semantics but it helps me sleep at night
     
  24. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Agree with all of this... I'd also add that I'm not sure how you'd field 3 260+ linebackers in today's NFL. I mean, it might be possible but it would be REALLY contingent on having amazing physical freaks with stellar football instincts.
     
  25. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    The Packers don’t have any 260 lb OBLB’s on the roster.
     

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