Trusting in the Present Leadership

[tynimiller]

He can do that every year, but if his team never does anything, he'll just be a footnote. Like I said, I didn't say it was fair.

Oh for sure, wouldn’t argue to the contrary, but football people know it’s a false narrative spun by folks that know little about the game.

Those same folks were the ones thinking Josh Jacobs was a bad back merely because his team sucked…or the ones that claim Josh Allen didn’t just BALL OUT against the Chiefs but just didn’t have the team around him executing like Mahomes did. I try to ignore those fools personally.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

Interesting thread, "trust present leadership"... ok... the recent comments from JJacobs a top 3-4 NFL running back for the Pack are important to highlight. The current leadership has a slew of WR's, not one of them is a WR1, maybe 1 or 2 (if healthy) is a consistent WR2... so what is leadership from coaching staff up through GM and Pres. going to do to get what Jacobs says they need to get to the "promised land"... a true, consistent, you can count on WR1? Is Adams the guy? IMO, no he would certainly help but he is a short-term answer. How about the current top WR in the NFL, any of them available that you can count on every game day? Trust in leadership goes so far, they need to start making decisions that pay off like they did with Jacobs and McKinney, not so much with other decisions they have made such as draftees, current QB that is still an open question whether he is an NFL elite or at least near that level and the slew of WR's that have not shown they are THE GUY. How about one of these FA WR's, do any of them fit?:

• Tee Higgins (CIN) #1
• Chris Godwin (TB)
• Stefon Diggs (HOU)
• Keenan Allen (CHI)
• Amari Cooper (BUF) Then of course you have the other areas of concern OL, DL, CB, DE..... Sign Higgins, Trade for Garrett, get a CB or OL in round 1 and 2 of the draft. That should put them in position to make a run consistently.

 

[tynimiller]

Interesting thread, "trust present leadership"... ok... the recent comments from JJacobs a top 3-4 NFL running back for the Pack are important to highlight. The current leadership has a slew of WR's, not one of them is a WR1, maybe 1 or 2 (if healthy) is a consistent WR2... so what is leadership from coaching staff up through GM and Pres. going to do to get what Jacobs says they need to get to the "promised land"... a true, consistent, you can count on WR1? Is Adams the guy? IMO, no he would certainly help but he is a short-term answer. How about the current top WR in the NFL, any of them available that you can count on every game day? Trust in leadership goes so far, they need to start making decisions that pay off like they did with Jacobs and McKinney, not so much with other decisions they have made such as draftees, current QB that is still an open question whether he is an NFL elite or at least near that level and the slew of WR's that have not shown they are THE GUY. How about one of these FA WR's, do any of them fit?:

• Tee Higgins (CIN) #1
• Chris Godwin (TB)
• Stefon Diggs (HOU)
• Keenan Allen (CHI)
• Amari Cooper (BUF) Then of course you have the other areas of concern OL, DL, CB, DE..... Sign Higgins, Trade for Garrett, get a CB or OL in round 1 and 2 of the draft. That should put them in position to make a run consistently.

For variety of reasons I'd choose Adams over all of those guys without blinking.

Godwin is an intriguing one for me IF medically he checks out. I want nothing to do with Diggs and Cooper, and Allen is a guy I love but he is well beyond his effective by date IMO. He is a teams WR3 at most right now.

 

[Schultz]

Interesting thread, "trust present leadership"... ok... the recent comments from JJacobs a top 3-4 NFL running back for the Pack are important to highlight. The current leadership has a slew of WR's, not one of them is a WR1, maybe 1 or 2 (if healthy) is a consistent WR2... so what is leadership from coaching staff up through GM and Pres. going to do to get what Jacobs says they need to get to the "promised land"... a true, consistent, you can count on WR1? Is Adams the guy? IMO, no he would certainly help but he is a short-term answer. How about the current top WR in the NFL, any of them available that you can count on every game day? Trust in leadership goes so far, they need to start making decisions that pay off like they did with Jacobs and McKinney, not so much with other decisions they have made such as draftees, current QB that is still an open question whether he is an NFL elite or at least near that level and the slew of WR's that have not shown they are THE GUY. How about one of these FA WR's, do any of them fit?:

• Tee Higgins (CIN) #1
• Chris Godwin (TB)
• Stefon Diggs (HOU)
• Keenan Allen (CHI)
• Amari Cooper (BUF) Then of course you have the other areas of concern OL, DL, CB, DE..... Sign Higgins, Trade for Garrett, get a CB or OL in round 1 and 2 of the draft. That should put them in position to make a run consistently.

Almost there, trade for Mahomes and Micah Parsons and they will be set.

 

[weeds]

Packers won SB45 on this date ... a long time ago.

 

[rmontro]

Packers won SB45 on this date ... a long time ago.

I remember that well. I was determined to enjoy the entire year that we were champions. And I did, and the 2011 season was a really fun one, and we had a nearly unstoppable offense. I enjoyed it right up until the Giants eliminated us in the playoffs.

A happy but bittersweet memory. I have to admit, with Rodgers, I didn't think we'd still be waiting for another one 14 years later.

 

[Bobby Ward]

Hello….
Let me start by stating I am NOT and never will be a fan of Gute. Supporters tout the good things he has done and certainly there have been some good things. But TWO HUGE glaring mistakes he has made point to the fact that he has very little short to mid term vision.

First the draft of Jordan Love and don’t flame me I actually like the kid. But it was after the 49’r defeat in the NFC championship game where in press conferences he and LeFleur hammered on the need to acquire two key pieces that added with the current mix would make them Super Bowl ready. He cited a quality wide receiver to pair with Devante Adam’s and a quality run stopping defensive end/OS linebacker. That them continued all the way to the draft. never changed or even hinted at different trade/draft strategies. On draft day we get Jordan Love? How did he fit with the strategy and plan of wide receiver/ defensive end? His explanation was that Rodger’s was getting older and was year to year at best?

Second, after the fiasco above, He then a bit later signed Rodger’s to a 3 year $150 million contract with $135 million in guaranteed money. Why would you offer a player you termed as year to year a 3 year contract with record total and guaranteed money that crippled the salary cap?

Sorry but not sorry to those who disagree but the guy is not fit for the job here.

 

[tynimiller]

Hello….
Let me start by stating I am NOT and never will be a fan of Gute. Supporters tout the good things he has done and certainly there have been some good things. But TWO HUGE glaring mistakes he has made point to the fact that he has very little short to mid term vision.

First the draft of Jordan Love and don’t flame me I actually like the kid. But it was after the 49’r defeat in the NFC championship game where in press conferences he and LeFleur hammered on the need to acquire two key pieces that added with the current mix would make them Super Bowl ready. He cited a quality wide receiver to pair with Devante Adam’s and a quality run stopping defensive end/OS linebacker. That them continued all the way to the draft. never changed or even hinted at different trade/draft strategies. On draft day we get Jordan Love? How did he fit with the strategy and plan of wide receiver/ defensive end? His explanation was that Rodger’s was getting older and was year to year at best?

Second, after the fiasco above, He then a bit later signed Rodger’s to a 3 year $150 million contract with $135 million in guaranteed money. Why would you offer a player you termed as year to year a 3 year contract with record total and guaranteed money that crippled the salary cap?

Sorry but not sorry to those who disagree but the guy is not fit for the job here.

I think you'll be shocked to learn that many of us that do view Gute as one of the better GMs, don't think he is flawless...and as much as the Love pick befuddled us all, that alone I could get over, but coupled with the contract to Rodgers I think even his biggest fans chalk that up on the "nope" side of things.

 

[gopkrs]

My big beef is how he seems to have mishandled the O line. I mean, he's done a lot the past two years and it's not paying dividends. He may be getting bad advice from scouting but it's his responsibility. If a GM says to himself, "I'm going to improve the O line" and then really tries and can't do it; there is a problem imho.

 

[tynimiller]

My big beef is how he seems to have mishandled the O line. I mean, he's done a lot the past two years and it's not paying dividends. He may be getting bad advice from scouting but it's his responsibility. If a GM says to himself, "I'm going to improve the O line" and then really tries and can't do it; there is a problem imho.

I'd push back somewhat, only because he's continually and constantly been one to advocate for bringing in OL constantly through draft process and undrafted. I struggle to expect perfect performance from someone, but I do expect them to constantly be working on something which needs worked on - and if one approach isn't working not to be afraid to change it up. We have never really been an organization to sign a OL free agent...and the crazy thing is Aaron Banks (SO FAR) has done nothing to likely encourage Gute to use that approach again outside of for depth purposes.

16 Total drafted (excludes numerous UDFA)...that's averaging 2 draftees a draft.
Not satisfied with our interior he gambled (mistep it seems) and grabbed Banks rather than trust drafting and developing more...It really sucks that we are without Day1s here for a bit, but I expect quite a few darts tossed at OL over the next two years.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think you'll be shocked to learn that many of us that do view Gute as one of the better GMs, don't think he is flawless...and as much as the Love pick befuddled us all, that alone I could get over, but coupled with the contract to Rodgers I think even his biggest fans chalk that up on the "nope" side of things.

Yes. One of the biggest benefits to a Rookie QB is their contract. That’s 5 years that if you average out id less than ~$8mil yearly (assuming a 5th year). So now doing the math you’re paying a top 10 QB $55Mil+ yearly.
So in my opinion the difference means I’ve got $47Mil play $$. We’re talking a Micah level $40Mil player and a good veteran starting OL, LB, RB, etc. OR a pair of dynamic, proven skill sets. A higher end DT and OLB or possibly WR.
Now I’m not suggesting throwing Love to the fire, but maybe let him sit 1 season behind Rodgers then make your switch. By having 4 years Rookie QB $$ you can offer 4 year contracts likely at a slight discount because the guaranteed number rises as it’s a % such as 33% or 40%. Meaning you get a $40mil guy for around $35MilX4 and a $7Mil guy at $5.5mil X 4. You just bought another $6.5Mil, which is another established, proven commodity. Similar to Amos or Billy Turner types.

 

[Magooch]

Gute's honestly a tough one for me to assess at times. I think that big picture, top to bottom he drafts really well...but at the same time think at times he gets a little too "cute" or "smartest guy in the room" with some of our early picks. But that's largely a preference thing.

I will say in looking at this particular season, I think we have completely botched the CB room, and the OL is even worse. I said elsewhere I think he was already declining, but the Jenkins move is really weird. Rather than try and acquire a new C, we took a passable guard and converted him into a thoroughly mediocre center, then overpaid a mediocre guard to replace the spot that was opened up by sliding him over to C.

And dating back even further, Myers over Humphrey was a VERY suspect pick in the first place (it's water under the bridge now I guess), mirrored a few years later as we could've also went with Barton over Morgan and IMO been in a better situation. AND it's not like there were no decent C's available this offseason (just look to the franchise a bit south of us...), so the whole thing has been really weird. A lot of current problems can be strangely pointed towards how we have repeatedly had a hard time at C.

BUT on the other hand IMO he absolutely STOLE Micah Parsons from the Cowboys. So that is of course a big point in his favor. But, with that being said, I also have to think right now...if not for making that trade, he's probably catching a lot more heat at the moment. This summer's transactions have largely been pretty bad thus far, I kind of get the sense that the big Parsons deal is probably doing a lot of work in covering up for some of that, it's earned him quite a bit of fan-goodwill

 

[tynimiller]

Gute's honestly a tough one for me to assess at times. I think that big picture, top to bottom he drafts really well...but at the same time think at times he gets a little too "cute" or "smartest guy in the room" with some of our early picks. But that's largely a preference thing.

I will say in looking at this particular season, I think we have completely botched the CB room, and the OL is even worse. I said elsewhere I think he was already declining, but the Jenkins move is really weird. Rather than try and acquire a new C, we took a passable guard and converted him into a thoroughly mediocre center, then overpaid a mediocre guard to replace the spot that was opened up by sliding him over to C.

And dating back even further, Myers over Humphrey was a VERY suspect pick in the first place (it's water under the bridge now I guess), mirrored a few years later as we could've also went with Barton over Morgan and IMO been in a better situation. AND it's not like there were no decent C's available this offseason (just look to the franchise a bit south of us...), so the whole thing has been really weird. A lot of current problems can be strangely pointed towards how we have repeatedly had a hard time at C.

BUT on the other hand IMO he absolutely STOLE Micah Parsons from the Cowboys. So that is of course a big point in his favor. But, with that being said, I also have to think right now...if not for making that trade, he's probably catching a lot more heat at the moment. This summer's transactions have largely been pretty bad thus far, I kind of get the sense that the big Parsons deal is probably doing a lot of work in covering up for some of that, it's earned him quite a bit of fan-goodwill

Take my two cents for a penny if you wish but Morgan and Barton thing is fictitious IMO as if it was blatantly clear that Barton might be better than Morgan. Many scouts and teams had Morgan higher than Barton so to hold that pick over him I think is a little misguided in that your mixing grading the result vs grading the decision between prospects.

The Josh Myers over Creed has a little more merit for sure, I know of only a handful of guys I'd say are worth noting that had Myers above Creed, but I'd say it was about a 3 to 1 ratio of guys that had Creed higher that didn't. Of course now it has played out that Creed ended up being better, but prospect wise there was still a fairly decent number of folks that disagreed with Myers over Creed as prospects too.

 

[Magooch]

Yea, that's fair. Like I said it is ultimately kind of a preference thing. I would've preferred Humphrey or Barton but there's arguments one way or the other...or at least the Barton/Morgan decision. I think Humphrey was a pretty clear miss lol. With Barton, personally I think both prospects "graded out" pretty close but the deciding factor was that Barton pretty much projected out to be IOL only. And he might've filled a better "need" pick but Morgan was seen as a better "value" pick - both in versatility and in the fact that T is just a more valuable commodity than G/C.

Gute has made it pretty clear (and it's not like it's an idea unique to him either of course) that he is really going to value positional versatility across the OL. I remember the talk a year or so ago, something to the effect of Tom being a Pro-Bowl tackle, an All-Pro guard, and a HOF center or something like that. When we drafted Morgan we heard how he can play four positions for us.
My personal preference/belief is that sometimes we lean a little too much on "versatility". There are merits for both positions but when it comes to roster or "line-building" philosophically I would rather have five starting guys with clearly defined roles/positions and focus on versatility more for backups (And maybe that is ideally what we would like to do as well, it just hasn't always seemed to pan out that way). And so I think sometimes instead of directly addressing a specific need, we tell ourselves that "So-and-so can play there" and either hope/believe/convince ourselves that will be enough to meet that need.
(and of course I understand this is not always possible. Cap/contract/capital limitations means sometimes you have to make due with what you have available to you. But in a perfect world that's my preference lol)

Anywho, all that to say, I don't think his management of the OL in the past couple of years has been particularly spectacular. I don't know how much of that directly reflects on Gute per se maybe but the situation doesn't look super great at the moment IMO

 

[tynimiller]

Yea, that's fair. Like I said it is ultimately kind of a preference thing. I would've preferred Humphrey or Barton but there's arguments one way or the other...or at least the Barton/Morgan decision. I think Humphrey was a pretty clear miss lol. With Barton, personally I think both prospects "graded out" pretty close but the deciding factor was that Barton pretty much projected out to be IOL only. And he might've filled a better "need" pick but Morgan was seen as a better "value" pick - both in versatility and in the fact that T is just a more valuable commodity than G/C.

Gute has made it pretty clear (and it's not like it's an idea unique to him either of course) that he is really going to value positional versatility across the OL. I remember the talk a year or so ago, something to the effect of Tom being a Pro-Bowl tackle, an All-Pro guard, and a HOF center or something like that. When we drafted Morgan we heard how he can play four positions for us.
My personal preference/belief is that sometimes we lean a little too much on "versatility". There are merits for both positions but when it comes to roster or "line-building" philosophically I would rather have five starting guys with clearly defined roles/positions and focus on versatility more for backups (And maybe that is ideally what we would like to do as well, it just hasn't always seemed to pan out that way). And so I think sometimes instead of directly addressing a specific need, we tell ourselves that "So-and-so can play there" and either hope/believe/convince ourselves that will be enough to meet that need.
(and of course I understand this is not always possible. Cap/contract/capital limitations means sometimes you have to make due with what you have available to you. But in a perfect world that's my preference lol)

Anywho, all that to say, I don't think his management of the OL in the past couple of years has been particularly spectacular. I don't know how much of that directly reflects on Gute per se maybe but the situation doesn't look super great at the moment IMO

Yes, Gute much prefers positional versatile guys along the OL...it was one reason why the year Darnell Wright was in the draft many of us hear reminded everyone he won't even be a GB option as he was a RT only type prospect and that is not what we do. We also rare will grab guys that are iOL only types...Cooper Beebe type guy from 2024, purely an inside guy and I still think had one of the highest floors of an iOL prospect we've seen in awhile (of course lower ceiling but still...)...I knew in my heart of hearts we'd never draft.

I do think there is good in being comitted to a plan, but I think Gute needs that contrarian in the War Room likely as well.

 

[milani]

I think you'll be shocked to learn that many of us that do view Gute as one of the better GMs, don't think he is flawless...and as much as the Love pick befuddled us all, that alone I could get over, but coupled with the contract to Rodgers I think even his biggest fans chalk that up on the "nope" side of things.

What we like about Gute is that he does try and does go after players. He does not do it left and right carelessly. But he does make moves. We lived with TT who did almost nothing. TT never would have signed Parsons. He had a chance to sign Beast Mode in 2010 when Ryan Grant suffered a season ender in the first game but reneged. He was truly lucky to get that SB because the NFC was average that year and the Pats happened to lose to Rex. TT never could build a defense to get Rodgers over the hump after 2010.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Hello….
Let me start by stating I am NOT and never will be a fan of Gute. Supporters tout the good things he has done and certainly there have been some good things. But TWO HUGE glaring mistakes he has made point to the fact that he has very little short to mid term vision.

First the draft of Jordan Love and don’t flame me I actually like the kid. But it was after the 49’r defeat in the NFC championship game where in press conferences he and LeFleur hammered on the need to acquire two key pieces that added with the current mix would make them Super Bowl ready. He cited a quality wide receiver to pair with Devante Adam’s and a quality run stopping defensive end/OS linebacker. That them continued all the way to the draft. never changed or even hinted at different trade/draft strategies. On draft day we get Jordan Love? How did he fit with the strategy and plan of wide receiver/ defensive end? His explanation was that Rodger’s was getting older and was year to year at best?

Second, after the fiasco above, He then a bit later signed Rodger’s to a 3 year $150 million contract with $135 million in guaranteed money. Why would you offer a player you termed as year to year a 3 year contract with record total and guaranteed money that crippled the salary cap?

Sorry but not sorry to those who disagree but the guy is not fit for the job here.

Gute does some things spectacularly well. He does have his drawbacks but I'm much more confident in him than LaFleur. I think Gute learns from his mistakes and is open-minded. I don't see that from LaFleur. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over.

His decision-making in games is atrocious. If not for Jordan Love pushing back on a horrible LaFleur decision to kick a fg with 2 munutes left to tie the game, the Packers would've lost to the Cardinals.

That said, I think LaFleur would make a good offensive coordinator. He just isn't a very good head coach. Success is too often followed by complaceny.

 

[OldSchool101]

Again imo just some heightened overreaction on players or staff to our being sore over not performing to expectation. Now granted I’m a call a spade a spade guy and it’s not always going to twinkle our ears, but you’ll know where I stand and I hope you respect that even if you disagree.

I’m next to positive had we had Won any 1 or 2 of our Tie/Losses, would we really be having these conversations? Or would the thread be titled “What a Great Job by our Lovely Staff.. Matt Coach of the Year?!”
Let’s just say we made a couple FG’s and were 7-1-1 after beating Cleveland and Philly. Are we calling for Matt’s Job? Ohhhh! So it’s really not about any particular player or Coach it’s about our feelings. Are we even focused on Brian’s career draft history or FA if we are 6-2-1 and in 1st place?

After stepping back and away from a tough loss, I’m going to give our Staff (and players) a chance to respond to some adversity. Now if it’s 3 more weeks of Offense going 10pts, 13pts, 6pts? And we’re 5-6-1? Ok let’s go ahead and light some torches and I’ll grab a can of diesel fuel!

 

[DABIGZ]

Well, seeing that McManus is DOUBTFUL for this game, my trust in the “leadership” and the medical team is fleeting fast.

 

[milani]

Well, seeing that McManus is DOUBTFUL for this game, my trust in the “leadership” and the medical team is fleeting fast.

Right. If he is doubtful tomorrow he should have been doubtful the last 3 weeks. They took him OFF the last. Now back? Are they trying to cover their back. Put pressure on Luke who has been left in limbo for 3 weeks. Why not.

 

[gopkrs]

Well, seeing that McManus is DOUBTFUL for this game, my trust in the “leadership” and the medical team is fleeting fast.

And really, where in hell is Biatchi in all this? I suppose over on the side helping LaFleur with the offense.

 

[milani]

And really, where in hell is Biatchi in all this? I suppose over on the side helping LaFleur with the offense.

Right now he needs to get his ST and Luke ready for tomorrow. We have found plenty of ways to shoot ourselves in the foot with both the offense and the ST.

 

[OldSchool101]

Again. This is just my take. At least we’re not too proud to admit we might have made a mistake. It’s obvious this choice would draw some fan speculation as it should. Yet we’re learning from our error. If we’re making tough calls adjustments that might draw scrutiny? That boldness of admission to our past error means we have just attempted to humble ourselves and get past it. In a weird way it’s admitting our failure which is tough. Now it’s behind us.