Training Camp Position Battles

GleefulGary

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You also don't build your depth around a lot of unknowns or marginal players, that is what got us into trouble at CB to begin with. Randall, Rollins, Gunter, etc. were all guys who "showed promise", but to me they proved to be nothing more than JAGS that Whitt couldn't get to play consistently well.

Call me a skeptic, but until Whitt starts putting productive CB's not named Sam Shields on the field, I will believe his take on Waters.

Randall played well outside of a few games, Gunter played well considering his actual talent.

Casey Hayward played well, Micah Hyde played decent, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields...those are productive players. Realize that Whitt can't change the scheme, and the scheme had flaws. But when a guy like Woodson says White is a good coach, I'm inclined to believe him.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Randall played well outside of a few games, Gunter played well considering his actual talent.

Casey Hayward played well, Micah Hyde played decent, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields...those are productive players. Realize that Whitt can't change the scheme, and the scheme had flaws. But when a guy like Woodson says White is a good coach, I'm inclined to believe him.
all that goes back to the "is it Capers/Whitt or the talent debate." There really isn't much to debate about Waters, he hasn't played a snap as a CB at the college level or the pro level that I know of, yet this could be his 3rd year in the league. Like I said many posts ago, I don't expect much and hearing Joe Whitt say that he is intrigued by Waters doesn't change that perception one bit for me. Sounds more like a coach trying to use a PS spot in the hopes of being able to eventually put a feather in his cap of "I turned another UDFA WR into a CB." I really hope I am wrong.
 

Mondio

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Randall played well outside of a few games, Gunter played well considering his actual talent.

Casey Hayward played well, Micah Hyde played decent, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields...those are productive players. Realize that Whitt can't change the scheme, and the scheme had flaws. But when a guy like Woodson says White is a good coach, I'm inclined to believe him.
I think we've had a lot of pretty good DB play in GB, just lots of really bad at times poor play in recent memory. Gunter would be fine as 4th, 5th option with healthy guys around him to cover his weaknesses. he's not a starting #1 guy, which is pretty much the role we had to play him in. But Even randall was pretty good, when he was healthy. Good Rookie season, injured and poor 2nd and rough first quarter but then very solid 3/4 of 3rd season. I think Rollins is very tough to call one way or the other. Raw coming in, pretty good rookie season. exceptional according to some 3rd party reviewers. Then injured and an entire season missed again last year. I'll be surprised to see him play here anymore, but it's not like we can make a fair assesment other than to say he hasn't worked out well. But that doesn't mean he didn't have talent.
 

GleefulGary

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all that goes back to the "is it Capers/Whitt or the talent debate." There really isn't much to debate about Waters, he hasn't played a snap as a CB at the college level or the pro level that I know of, yet this could be his 3rd year in the league. Like I said many posts ago, I don't expect much and hearing Joe Whitt say that he is intrigued by Waters doesn't change that perception one bit for me. Sounds more like a coach trying to use a PS spot in the hopes of being able to eventually put a feather in his cap of "I turned another UDFA WR into a CB." I really hope I am wrong.

Whitt didn't say he was intrigued by Herb Waters. He said Waters has the type of ability to play up to the level of a guy like Tramon Williams. There's a stark difference between what Whitt actually said and what you're saying he said.

And I don't think Whitt is trying to get more unheralded players so he can boost his reputation. Remember, he doesn't get to choose who he coaches. He can offer suggestions, but it ain't his call.

Again, Whitt didn't have to say that about Waters. So it seems fairly obvious he's talented...just has had bad luck. Whether he'll make the team or not is anybody's guess, but I think he will.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Whitt didn't say he was intrigued by Herb Waters. He said Waters has the type of ability to play up to the level of a guy like Tramon Williams. There's a stark difference between what Whitt actually said and what you're saying he said.

Maybe I shouldn't interpret article titles and comments made by Whitt himself to say that Whitt was intrigued by Waters?

"I don’t necessarily look at anything other than skill sets," Whitt said, "and he has the skill set that I like. He has long arms, he can bend, he has good balance, he has the height. And so now can we work those skill sets into playing defensive back. That’s my challenge and I’m excited to work with him."

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...tt-intrigued-cb-convert-herb-waters/90439330/
 

Mondio

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It would be one thing if he offered up unsolicited commentary on every guy that comes thru here, but he doesn't really. Surely he says positive things about most guys if asked, but he's one out of his way to point out Waters a couple times now. The fact they kept him and switched positions rather than just cut him and be done when he didn' tmake at WR leads to think he does have the ability at least to turn into something that a lot of other guys don't have
 

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I will gladly eat up the entire plate of crow, when Herb Waters earns a starting CB job and not due to injuries. :cool:
 

GleefulGary

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Maybe I shouldn't interpret article titles and comments made by Whitt himself to say that Whitt was intrigued by Waters?

"I don’t necessarily look at anything other than skill sets," Whitt said, "and he has the skill set that I like. He has long arms, he can bend, he has good balance, he has the height. And so now can we work those skill sets into playing defensive back. That’s my challenge and I’m excited to work with him."

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...tt-intrigued-cb-convert-herb-waters/90439330/

Maybe you should look for more next time. ;)

"
"He’s further along at this point than I thought he would be," Whitt said last June, after Waters hurt his shoulder the first time. "I hate that he got hurt; hopefully he’ll be ready for training camp. If he is, he’s going to give (all the other cornerbacks trouble). He has that ability in his body that, don’t be surprised, like I told you in ’09 about Tramon (Williams), I said that Tramon was the best cover guy that we had, I think you thought I was crazy at the time, but at the end of the year and going into ’10, he was. This kid has that type of ability. He does."
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Maybe you should look for more next time. ;)

"
"He’s further along at this point than I thought he would be," Whitt said last June, after Waters hurt his shoulder the first time. "I hate that he got hurt; hopefully he’ll be ready for training camp. If he is, he’s going to give (all the other cornerbacks trouble). He has that ability in his body that, don’t be surprised, like I told you in ’09 about Tramon (Williams), I said that Tramon was the best cover guy that we had, I think you thought I was crazy at the time, but at the end of the year and going into ’10, he was. This kid has that type of ability. He does."

Sounds like Whitt is intrigued by Waters potential? :whistling:

Yup, read that too...again this is nothing more than more of what Whitt said in the article I posted, not based on actual playing time. I get it, he sees potential in an UDFA WR that he is attempting to convert to a CB. What do you expect him to say? "He kind of sucks, I see a lot of Terrell Buckley in this guy." Do you often hear coaches talk about how bad a player is? Coaches saw potential in Jeff Janis becoming a WR during the 4 years he was in Green Bay. Sometimes these things work out and sometimes they don't. When Waters gets some playing time as a CB we can actually have an intelligent conversation about his skills, until then all we are talking about is what Joe Whitt, you or I "think" could happen.
 

GleefulGary

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Sounds like Whitt is intrigued by Waters potential? :whistling:

Yup, read that too...again this is nothing more than more of what Whitt said in the article I posted, not based on actual playing time. I get it, he sees potential in an UDFA WR that he is attempting to convert to a CB. What do you expect him to say? "He kind of sucks, I see a lot of Terrell Buckley in this guy." Do you often hear coaches talk about how bad a player is? Coaches saw potential in Jeff Janis becoming a WR during the 4 years he was in Green Bay. Sometimes these things work out and sometimes they don't. When Waters gets some playing time as a CB we can actually have an intelligent conversation about his skills, until then all we are talking about is what Joe Whitt, you or I "think" could happen.

The difference is that Whitt didn't have to say any of that. It was unprompted. He could have just said he's doing fine, he's ok, he's competing hard. We see thang a lot from coaches. Instead he says he could be the best cover guy since Tramon Williams. That means something.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but the current roster by position:

Quarterbacks (4)
#12 Aaron Rodgers, #7 Brett Hundley, #9 DeShone Kizer, Tim Boyle

Running Backs (7)
#30 Jamaal Williams, #33 Aaron Jones, #88 Ty Montgomery, #32 Devante Mays, #34 Joel Bouagnon, #22 Aaron Ripkowski, #40 Joe Kerridge

Wide Receivers (11)
#17 Davante Adams, #18 Randall Cobb, #81 Geronimo Allison, #11 Trevor Davis, #89 Michael Clark, #10 DeAngelo Yancey, #16 Jake Kumerow, #13 Colby Pearson, #82 J’Mon Moore, #83 Marquez Valdes-Scantling, #19 Equanimeous St. Brown

Tight Ends (6)
#80 Jimmy Graham, #84 Lance Kendricks, #86 Emanuel Byrd, #85 Robert Tonyan, Damon Gibson, Kevin Rader

Offensive Tackles (7)
#69 David Bakhtiari, #75 Bryan Bulaga, #78 Jason Spriggs, #68 Kyle Murphy, #77 Adam Pankey, Alex Light, Kyle Meadows

Interior Offensive Linemen (9)
#65 Lane Taylor, #63 Corey Linsley, #64 Justin McCray, #62 Lucas Patrick, #79 Kofi Amichia, #54 Dillon Day, #61 Cole Madison, Jacob Alsadek, Austin Davis

Defensive Linemen (8)
#76 Mike Daniels, #97 Kenny Clark, #96 Muhammad Wilkerson, #94 Dean Lowry, #90 Montravius Adams, #99 James Looney, Tyler Lancaster, Filipo Mokofisi

Outside Linebackers (8)
#52 Clay Matthews, #53 Nick Perry, #45 Vince Biegel, #93 Reggie Gilbert, #51 Kyler Fackrell, #98 Chris Odom, #91 Kendall Donnerson, Naashon Hughes

Inside Linebackers (7)
#50 Blake Martinez, #47 Jake Ryan, #56 Ahmad Thomas, #42 Oren Burks, Parris Bennett, C.J. Johnson, Marcus Porter

Safeties (6)
#21 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, #27 Josh Jones, #29 Kentrell Brice, #35 Jermaine Whitehead, #25 Marwin Evans, Raven Greene

Cornerbacks (12)
#20 Kevin King, #38 Tramon Williams, #24 Quinten Rollins, #23 Jaire Alexander, #37 Josh Jackson, #31 Davon House, #28 Josh Hawkins, #41 Lenzy Pipkins, #39 Demetri Goodson, #44 Donatello Brown, #26 Herb Waters, Chris Seisay

Specialists (5)
#2 Mason Crosby (K), #8 Justin Vogel (P), #6 JK Scott (P), #57 Zach Triner (LS), #43 Hunter Bradley (LS)
 
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I wouldn't put too much stock into what Whitt said about Waters last offseason. I'm glad Gutekunst didn't rely on him developing into a decent cornerback but addressed the position in free agency and the draft.

With that being said it would be great if he turned into a solid contributor though.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Let the Rookie orientation begin.

Long list of "rookies" and tryout players, interesting to see guys like DeAngelo Yancey on the list, I guess Practice Squad guys too?

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Mondio

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I wonder what the hell happened between him and the Packers? I don't remember hearing anything that would make me suspicious of anything. not that I think he was an outstanding punter, he had his moments good and some bad, but mostly good enough to above average as a rookie punter. Seemed like a good kid i figured he would have kicked for us at least into camp with competition. I suppose he could have asked for his release and GB obliged, but heck with a 90 man roster, keep competition alive for a while. it only makes people better. Unless they just wanted him gone.
 

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Punter competitions are overrated. As we all know it's very easy to draft punters and know that they're going to be good based on their college performance...why waste the roster spot on a proven punter when you just drafted a guaranteed-to-be-great punter!?
 

easyk83

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Cutting Vogel makes me worry, nothing good ever comes of fiddling with the Punter position. I honestly felt like Vogel was finally taking us beyond the curse of Jon Ryan.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Personally, I think there is more to the Vogel story than just the Packers not being happy with his on the field performance. We may or may not ever know.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Rob Demovsky‏Verified account @RobDemovsky

I'm told Vogel asked for his release because he figured he'd have a better chance to catch on now than when he inevitably lost the competition to a draft pick.

Makes sense. Why stick around when you know every advantage is gonna be given to the other guy? Plus this way Vogel has a chance to catch on with another team.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Makes sense. Why stick around when you know every advantage is gonna be given to the other guy? Plus this way Vogel has a chance to catch on with another team.
Right, but wherever he goes, I imagine he is still going to have to compete for a job, but probably an easier task with many other teams and not with a team that just used a 5th rounder on a punter. It also gives him a leg up, so to speak, on getting with the other teams long snapper and kicker to practice that aspect of the game. But as far as the pure punting aspect, he can prove that anywhere.
 

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