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Top 10 Greatest Packers Ever on NFL.com. 1 Small Problem with the list.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Lunchboxer, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. Crazy Packers Fan

    Crazy Packers Fan Cheesehead

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    Why does everyone - including the Hall of Fame - forget about how great Paul Hornung was? Up until 2006, he still held the record for most points by one player in a season. I suspect a lot of it has to do with the fact that he got suspended for a year for gambling, so the NFL always tries to downplay his success. The Hall of Fame wouldn't let him in for a long time. It's ridiculous.

    I'd rank them like this:
    1. Lombardi
    2. Hornung
    3. Starr
    4. Hutson
    5. White
    6. Taylor
    7. Lambeau
    8. Nitschke
    9. Favre
    10. Gregg

    You have to favor championship-winning players over a stats-obsessed QB.
     
  2. Wood Chipper

    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    like it or not but Favre made Green Bay relevant again
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    5 reasons the golden boy is passed over.

    1. shared the backfield with a HOFer
    2. played on an amazing team
    3. no defining moment unlike star
    4. not mind blowing rushing numbers
    5. Jim Brown dominated the era

    Not saying they are right or wrong to pass him over, just the reasons why imo.
     
  4. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think Favre should be ranked but I don't think he should of been ranked so highly. I have to put whatever angst I have at Favre aside and judge this objectively. Both Reggie White (OK, I'll admit to being a bit biased, but he was the best, dammit!) and Bart Starr should of been ranked higher with Lombardi at number 1.

    He has all the right players on his list, I just think he needs to rearrange them. Ivo's list pretty much nailed it for me. In my opinion, nobody should eclipse Lombardi.
     
  5. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I took those stats into consideration when I was looking at the rankings and thought he belonged on the list based on that alone. The problem I have about it is some of those records were achieved by longevity of his career, rather than sheer talent alone. Anybody who has been in the league for that length of time is bound to start to break some records if they are any good at all. I wonder what Favre's numbers would of been like had his career been shorter? I also wonder what some other QB's stats would of been like if they stayed in the league that long. You have to consider that. It took a long time for him to break some of those records.
     
  6. PackerChamps

    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    If we are talking greatest Packer(not just player), my list would look like this top to bottom. :

    1. Curly Lambeau-Began it all, kept it alive and along the way, accounted for half the championships on the board, and his name is on the greated NFL stadium. Hard to argue that.
    2. Don Hutson- Consider how long his records lasted while playing in a 12 game seasons and in a league with much less passing. He was also a major factor in 3 championships and is a classy individual.
    3. Vince Lombardi- 5 championships in 7 years and was close to 6 plus first two Super Bowls and has the trophy named after him. I don't care if his coaching "tree" is a pole, he took a dying franchise and breathed life back into it and give it the "Titletown" name.
    4. Bart Starr- Record at the helm, the mold that I think Rodgers is built from, A+ class individual, my earliest memory of a Packer coach.
    5. Brett Favre-At the helm for the Packer rise from the ashes, 2 Super Bowl appearances and 2 NFC Championship losses, 12 non losing seasons. Plus all the records he holds including the iron man streak.
    Once the Packers cut ties with him, he could play for whomever paid him and does not impact his legacy while with the team.
    6. Ray Nitschke- Even today when you mention great linebackers, he is front and center. The heart of the Packers 60's dynasty.
    7. Reggie White - If he would had a longer history with the Packers, he would be higher on my list.
    8. Jim Taylor - Going Taylor over Hornung based on stats. With the history of the Packers, its hard to have both running backs who played at the same exact time on the top ten list.
    9. Forrest Gregg-Got to have a O lineman and he is one of the best with 9 pro bowl appearances and an anchor on the 5 championship titles.
    10. Ron Wolf/Ted Thompson - The architect for the rebirth as in Superbowl wins with each doing it their own way.
     
  7. PackerChamps

    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    Lets see

    12 non-losing seasons
    16 seasons without missing a game
    2 SB appearances with 1 win
    2 other NFC championship appearances
    Name all over the record books.
    4 different head coaches and o-coordinators
    Played his entire career on teams that likely won't have anyone from the offense and few from the defense other than him in the HOF.

    By your valuation, the following should not be held in high esteem.

    Fran Tarkenton(4 SB losses)
    Jim Kelley (4 SB losses)
    Dan Marino(No SB)
    Steve Young (1 SB with 1 win)
     
  8. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Yup. They were all good, not great except for Young, who won 3 Championships while on the 49ers. Even though he was Montana's backup for the first 2, he threw 23 TDs against 6 interceptions in his 4 years behind Montana. He averaged 8.1 y/a and had an average QB rating of 101.6 in those 4 years. Had he been starting, there would have been no drop off from Montana. Young was one of the all-time greats.
     
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  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Marino lost in his only SB appearance
     
  10. VersusTheMoose

    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    Your argument doesn't hold up when you are not considering Marino a great QB. At least make him an exception because you cannot honestly believe he is not an all-time QB. What could have Marino done if he had played for the Cowboys in the 90s? Aikman was a solid QB on great football teams. Marino was a great QB on average to good football teams. You cannot judge players solely on championships won when they play a team sport.

    Also, the Young argument is absolutely ridiculous. You cannot just assume they would have kept winning without Montana. Young was a great NFL QB, with or without his single starting championship win.
     
  11. LAG

    LAG Cheesehead

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    The above where not categorized in the top ten, but Favre was placed at number 3. Favre should have been down the list close to these guys, IMO.

    I was never a huge Favre fan in the 2000's, because of his goofy risk taking. I remember Holgren getting pissed at number 4 for throwing lazer passes and pics into the wrong hands.
     
  12. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Great players make great teams that win Championships. Most teams are a collection of solid players that play good, fundamental football. Great teams have a few "game-changers" that make big plays to win games over and over again, which leads to Championships. It's the Championships that make the difference between average and great teams. If the Vikings had won 1 or 2 of the Championships they were in, how would they be regarded today? Certainly, they had good enough teams to do so. Same with the Bills. Instead of being remembered as biggest losers in the Super Bowl era, they would be considered with the great teams. And Tarkenton and Kelley would be mentioned with Starr, Marino, and the rest of the multiple winners. Many more players of those teams would be in the HOF.

    If Marino's teams had won multiple Championships, nobody would question that he was one of the greatest of all time. If you feel it's ridiculous to assume the 49ers would have won with Young, isn't it just as ridiculous to assume that Marino would have won with the Cowboys?

    BTW, Favre averaged 1.5 turnovers per playoff game he played in (30 interceptions, 6 fumbles lost). That is an astounding statistic that alone removes him from my list.
     
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  13. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Marino was a terrible post season QB, while Aikman was a better post season QB. Look at the QB ratings, 77.1 for marino in the post season while troy had 88.3

    In 10 of his 18 postseason games he threw 2 more INTs while Troy threw 2 or more INTs in 4 postseason games (16 played)

    As far as talent on the dolphins, look at the team he walked onto! They were in the SB the year before he got there! His coach was a proven winner, and the team averaged 4 pro bowlers per year his entire career. So please, enough of the dan marino myths.
     
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  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    this
     
  15. VersusTheMoose

    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    I was asking a question, I wasn't assuming anything. Marino is a great QB regardless of championships; Young is a great QB regardless of his one ring. Football is a team sport and no matter how important a QB is you cannot just write a career off because they never won a ring (or never won X amount of rings that you consider to be great). Of course championships are part of the discussion but my opinion is that there is at least one great QB to never win a ring. We just have different definitions of greatness when it comes to playing QB in the NFL.
     
  16. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Agreed.
     
  17. PackerChamps

    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    Oh, I forgot, John Elway only won 2 SB so he also falls into the overrated category as well.

    Steve Young was a backup. 23 TDs against 6 picks over 4 years means squat if he isn't the starter. You might want to check the roster on those 49er teams, I think you will find a bit fuller cupboard as far as HOFers than you will find supporting Favre.
     
  18. PackerChamps

    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    Sorry, forgot about the 1 loss
     
  19. PackerChamps

    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    My point is, put Favre on the Cowboys/Niners teams and the consistency at the Coaching and you would have had a couple more rings on his fingers. In the 16 years with the Packers, he might have 2 HOFers joining him one of which is Reggie. To say he should be in the teens or twenties as far as ranking of all time QB's is BS.

    While I have hated the crap he has pulled starting around 2005, I do recognize the great player he was. After leaving the Packers he took the Jets almost to the playoffs, the Vikes to the NFC championship, before he hit the injury wall this year.
     
  20. PackerChamps

    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    Well there you go. That stat proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that he was at best a backup QB. Absolutely no talent whatsoever.

    Big Ben will also go down in history as mediocre after tossing those picks against the Pack.

    You keep sipping your coolaid and I will keep drinking mine.
     
  21. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Explain to me why it's b.s. that Young would have won in Montana's place but not b.s. that Favre would have won a couple more Championships with the Cowboys or 49ers.

    It's more likely the Cowboys and 49ers don't win the Championships with the ol' gunslinger at QB.
     
  22. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    I'm glad someone else thinks "The Golden Boy" should be ranked higher. Heck, he was running back, quarterback and he kicked the ball some too.

    I think Favre should be on the list, but I also think his longevity played into many of those records, so I don't pull all the weight in "records". Championships, however, mean something.

    For instance if a guy is a starter for 17 years and wins 1 Championship compared to a guy who is a starter for say, 3 years and wins the Championship every year he starts, I would give the nod to the guy who knew how to win it.

    Starr won Championships. Not only did he win Championships, he called most of his own plays. He carried himself with poise on the field and not panic. He was a field general. Therefore I'd put him at number 2 behind Lombardi who helped Starr and many players become who they were.

    Lombardi gets number one, not only because he knew how to win, but he also helped the NFL a great deal when they were going through the troublesome AFL introductory years. To add to that Lombardi was on the cutting edge of civil rights. There is a whole lot more to Vince Lombardi than winning championships regardless of the quote everybody throws around out of context.
     
  23. LAG

    LAG Cheesehead

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    Starr was and is THE MAN behind center. Along with Coach Lombardi, both are legendary with the (team championship) success they achieved. Five championships in nine years says it all.
     
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  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    not sure how those cowboys teams would have prevented favre from throwing INTs in the playoffs...

    Favre, at the highest, is 10th all time as far as QBs go.
     
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  25. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    In fact, I wish we had Bart Starr Jerseys in our credit shop. How about it Mods?
     
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