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The Wide Receivers : Where do we stand now !!!

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by I_am_smoked_cheddar, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Where are the Packers regarding WRs? IMO #1 Nelson, #2 Cobb, #3 Jones, #3a Finley and the rest question marks. Boykin is likely next in line but while he and Ross are big and strong, I believe their weakness is lack of speed and limited quickness – at least that’s what keeps them from being special so far. It would be great to have one of those two really emerge as well as one of the speedster rookie draftees. It would be ideal for McCarthy to have a speedster available to spread defenses vertically. That plus an improved running game would make the offense even more productive. But of course the speedster has to be more than fast, he has to be good. What a shame neither Johnson or Dorsey have been healthy enough to compete for a spot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I didn't see that last year.
     
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  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I went back and looked at some college clips for Ross on youtube to comment more precisely on my eyewash impressions.

    His speed is north-south. I wouldn't call him a long strider (late speed)...his straight line speed looks like a pretty smooth curve. However, when he cuts / changes direction he gets choppy. That's good for getting through PAC 12 ankle tackles, but with the speed on NFL special teams, that loss of acceleration in the first move is problem.
     
  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Dorsey is in pads and a full participant today. I look forward to seeing him on the field.
     
  5. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Then you must have been watching different games because he averaged 28.7 on kickoffs and 25.8 on punts. How can you argue with that production?
     
  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I'm well aware of his averages and his two long punt returns.

    I did not discuss his KO ability, only punts. They are different disciplines.
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    In an earlier discussion about Ross as a punt returner, I mentioned his muff against SF in the playoffs, which would be hard for anyone to forget. What I did not recall at the time was his fumbling away that cross-field overhand lateral from Cobb against Chicago.

    In playoffs and postseason he fielded 6 punts plus the lateral and lost two of those 7 opportunities.
     
  8. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    So what? You work on it and look for improvement. If improvement is evident, you stick with your man. Desmond Howard had 4 muffs the year he became Super Bowl MVP.
     
  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Ross is on the bubble...he's being saved by injuries.

    I wish I had a buck for every unproven marginal player touted as the second coming of something or other.

    Everybody was gushing over Gurley in his preseason. Nobody believed me when I said he was too slow out of his breaks...an undersized TE was my evaluation of his route running.

    Ross lacks lateral quickness, is tight settling under punts, and has early drops. Out kick the coverage and give him a lane and he'll make some hay. But that's not what punt returners play-in-play-out need to do. He may get the job by default, but that is not to be thought of as a happy circumstance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  10. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    He has plenty of lateral quickness. Without it you don't average more than 25 yards on 7 attempts. He'll get the job because he's pretty good at it, not by default.
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I suspect I'm not alone in my opinion. If he was such a strong contender, as you claim, with experience so limited and a history of drops to be worked out, he'd be getting some punt work in the first preseason game? He didn't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
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  12. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    I'm quite certain I'm not either, so let's just call that irrelevant.

    They already know of Ross's abilities. They obviously wanted to get a look at some guys they hadn't seen in a live situation.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    5 posts up you said, "You work on it and look for improvement." Not playing in the punt game is not exactly working on it.

    "Being not alone" was intended to be a wry rhetorical remark suggesting the coaching staff is in agreement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  14. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Still no clue about Ross & Boykin at this point, but can you imagine if we can keep these 3 somehow healthy all year?
    Dang.... please.....

    Packers WR Triplets thru 2 games against 2012 Playoff teams:

    James Jones: NFL TD leader last year. This year, on pace for 88 catches and over 1,400 yards.

    Randall Cobb: On pace for 128 catches and over 1,800 yards, also 16 TD's.

    Jordy Nelson: On pace for 80 catches, over 1,600 yards, and 24 TDs.

    Aaron Rodgers, by the way, on pace for: 6,500 yards passing and 56 TDs. He leads the league in passing yards (yes more than Peyton), and his 127.2 passer rating is 2nd, behind Peyton. But it would be ahead of Peyton had Finley not foot-setted that pass into Eric Reid's hands for a terrible interception charged to Rodgers.
    Rodgers yards per attempt is an unreal 10.29, to Peyton's 9.05.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  15. I_am_smoked_cheddar

    I_am_smoked_cheddar Guest

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    ce1.jpg The Receivers are doing fine, it's the plays being called that I've got a problem with !
     
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  16. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    I actually think that this group is playing better than any other group of Packer receivers that I have seen. Even better than the old 2008-2011 YAC crew, that group dropped way too many routine passes.
     
  17. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Nelson has the best feet of any NFL WR, Jones is one of the better press beaters, and Cobb is heading towards Welker level on his option routes.
     
  18. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Cobb > Welker. Welker has benefited from having a couple QBs who try to throw to him nearly every play. Welker also has a very high drop rate to go with all his catches.

    As for Nelson, not only does he have the best feet in the NFL, his hands are as good as anyone's. He's one of the top 5 WRs in the league. The only one I would consider trading him for is that guy in Detroit. I hate when I hear people say "He's one of the best white WRs in the game." B.S.! He's simply one of the best WRs in the game, period.

    If we didn't have two other top flight WRs, his numbers would be through the roof. He has great acceleration. He runs excellent routes. I can't remember the last time he dropped a catchable pass. He catches the ball on the back shoulder better than ANYONE. He goes over the middle and makes tough catches in traffic. He fights defenders for the ball and wins almost 100% of the time. His sideline awareness and body control is second to none. No training camp? He don't need no stinking training camp! I really can't think of anything lacking in his game except maybe RAC ability a little bit but that would be nitpicking.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and even with all of his talent, he's still a team-first player. He just wants to win and doesn't care who gets the catches to make it happen. You don't see that humility in 90% of WRs these days.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  19. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I honestly think Nelson is turning into the #1 WR on this team. While I think Cobb will accumulate more catches,I just think Nelson will have the larger impact with his catches. Sort of the difference between amendola/welker and Gronk (not the exact same but hopefully you get the point).

    Honestly think Nelson is probably the eighth or ninth best WR in the NFL. Obviously Johnson would be #1 but then you've got guys like Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, Graham? (he'll probably qualify as a WR for franchise tag), Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson (deserves a medal for doing what he did last year with Freeman) and AJ Green. So, depending on if you want to consider Graham a WR (which, c'mon, that's what he's used as) that would put Nelson at nine. Now, if Harvin could stay healthy I could see Harvin moving ahead but that's a big if at this point. Cobb I'd probably put somewhere around top 12-15? Jones is one of those glue guys whose impact on this team is probably far beyond what it would be elsewhere. So while I think Jones is probably a top-30 WR with the packers, not sure he'd be more than a second WR elsewhere (kinda like Decker).
     
  20. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    If we're talking white WR (excluding larger receiving TE) Jordy is THE #1.

    What I meant by the Welker reference was simply decision making on WR option routes. Welker is the best of the past 10 years, Cobb is almost at his level in that singular aspect of the game now.
     
  21. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Jones and Finley due to be free agents. I think the Pack should take a WR in next years draft with a 1st or 2nd. Nelson and Jennings had both fit that category and you definitely get what you pay for typically with a WR especially in terms of how soon they are ready to contribute in direct correlation many times with draft position.


    As far as ranking the WR's. Hmm?

    If we include JerMichael I'd say him first as in importance to our offense.

    Then I'd say

    Nelson
    Cobb
    Jones
    Boykin

    Our top 3 WR's are very close and one hasn't clearly separated themselves from the others. Each has their individual strengths.
     
  22. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Re: Welker...anybody would drop a higher than average number of balls if they were running under linebackers and safeties all day. I'd venture a guess the guy has taken more targets between the hashes and within ten yards of the LOS than any WR in history. If the drops have gone up over the years, that should not be surprising with all of the pounding. In the end, you have to give the guy credit for going some ways in defining the position, with teams trying to find their own Welker.

    Speaking of which, name the receiver in the current crop who can make hay in the "danger zone" better than Jennings? The answer is "none". Of course that's not sufficient reason to have paid him a king's ransom, but it is a missing piece.

    Jones has cut short 2 slant routes in the last 2-3 years resulting in interceptions...he's much more comfortable on the perimeter. I wouldn't say he's "scared" to go in there...reticent might be the right word. Cobb drops balls in there. Nelson catches them but usually goes to the ground with them. They're all perimeter-and-post type guys. That's not a criticism...there's plenty of highly productive Pro Bowlers who make business decisions in that part of the field.

    Maybe we'll get more productivity in that part of the field out of Finley or Lacy/Franklin on the release to carry us through this year.

    When it comes time to replace one of these guys, a possession-type receiver would be a good compliment...a Nicks / Boldin type would be good to have. In this past draft, Robert Woods is looking like that kind of guy.

    Johnson may be gone, but White's still on the PS as the potential field-stretcher (another good-to-have skill we lack) in a spot role next year...or maybe more than spot depending how FA goes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  24. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I obviously didn’t get to see Don Hutson play but since the Lombardi teams I have not seen a Packers WR who so consistently imitates the grace and precision of a ballerina as he “dots” or drags his toes on the sideline as Jordy Nelson. And it’s not just getting his feet in bounds, it is the body control he displays as he leaps and spins and nearly pirouettes. Sorry for the girlish imagery – it’s meant as a pure compliment - Nelson is big and strong too but the grace (for lack of a better word ) of some of his catches are just amazing.
     
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  25. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    Remember Raymond Berry?
     

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