The Seattle Purge Begins!

brandon2348

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I'm going to watch this one closely because I agree with you. I for the life of me don't see how people think they're just fine regarding cap space. I don't get that. It's basic math. They have lots of money to spend under the cap but have so much dead money that they can't sign with bonuses like Ted did with Rodgers. So they don't have ANY ability to do that. That's one point. Then, we have to consider the amount of guys it is they need to sign! Basically their entire roster! How is that NOT a problem?! There is just no way on earth Seattle will be able to keep all these guys at current market rates. There's not enough money. It's simple math.


Yeah 7 million in rolling "dead money" is huge deal. They basically paid 7 million for 4-6 round draft pick. lol
 

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Seriously? The Seahawks have several players that cause distractions all over there roster. Sherman for example is constantly talking and being a distraction. That's how these guys roll. Bottom line is all this would never happen in Green Bay as TT never would of brought a guy like Harvin in to begin with and the Seahawks new this stuff about Harvin going into it. Plus the Seahawks paid a "kings ransom" for Harvin and basically got nothing but a late round draft pick with rolling "dead money". Like I shared if TT did that people would be freaking out.
The last thing I will do is be an apologist for the Seahawks, Schnieder, or any other team or person, but it seems to me you are exaggerating the Seahawks’ problems. Schnieder obviously made a mistake trading for Harvin before the 2013 season. He knew, or should have known Harvin was a problem child and he paid him a lot of money. But (he and his defenders would no doubt argue) he and Carroll built a good enough team to win it all in spite that mistake. And while the mistake caused them to take a hit money- and cap-wise, no team in the league has deeper pockets than Paul Allen and his approximate $16,000,000,000 net worth. So it's "only" a cap problem: Any problem that can be solved with money will be.

Since none of us were in the locker room with Harvin we can’t know all the facts or how destructive his attitude was. As far as other Seahawks players causing distractions: All distractions are not created equal. Someone like Sherman mouthing off is far different than a player engaging in fights with his teammates, as Harvin did with both Tate and Baldwin. And they weren’t “scrimmage fights” where a player on one side of the ball goes after another on the other side. Harvin’s fights were with fellow WRs.

This is from the National Football Post:
The Seattle Seahawks' trade of wide receiver Percy Harvin to the New York Jets is starting to make a lot of sense. Harvin reportedly got into several fights with teammates and refused to go into the game during a loss to the Dallas Cowboys. Harvin gave former teammate Golden Tate a black eye a week before the Super Bowl. Harvin gave former teammate Doug Baldwin a cut on his chin this year during another fight. Harvin took himself out of the game against the Cowboys last week and wouldn't go back in when asked by coaches. Harvin was reportedly a cancer in the locker room with the Minnesota Vikings.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Percy-Harvin-got-into-fights-with-teammates-refused-to-play.html

If you're saying the Seahawks have a lot of players as bad as Harvin, I'd like to see the evidence.
 

Carl

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He has a 3.7 million cap hit this season which is higher then his rookie deal. We can get our pens out and "salary cap" it to death.

The point is here if your the Seahawks and Schneider what made that team win a Super Bowl? My opinion is it was there dominant rotation on the D-line along with there fast linebackers "Bobby Wagner" . Not this group of "fraudsters" that call themselves the "Legion of Boom" who I now call the "Legion of Slow" cause tall big corners don't look all that great with no "pass rush".

Scheider instead trades picks away for Harvin and pays him like 20 mill last year and drafts some "high school body" receiver in the 2nd round trying to build this "juggernaut offense" while key D-lineman walk. Why mess with the recipe if the batch comes out good? He failed to replace what left whether he replaced it via free agency or draft it doesn't matter.

Bottom line. Schnieder didn't get it done as the Hawks could still be dominant.

My bad, but the the vast majority of the extension money still comes after this season. I don't think the extra 2ish million Sherman gets this year has a big affect on their salary cap.
 
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My bad, but the the vast majority of the extension money still comes after this season. I don't think the extra 2ish million Sherman gets this year has a big affect on their salary cap.

Great GMs are fantastic at thinking forward. 2, 5... 7 million might not seem like a lot of money but it very much can be and it adds up quickly if you have it to spend.

Let's say I have the best QB in the NFL and he's coming up in 2 years. I happen to be 5-7 million under the cap in October. That measly 5-7 million looks really good to that QB as a signing bonus. It's one of the few ways to really find a win/win on these contracts. The player got re-upped and a nice chunk in a signing bonus and the team will reap the rewards by paying current market rates instead of the rate they would pay 2 years from now. (Often with little added salary for the next 2 years)

Seattle has so many guys do that they can't even go there and they're trying to get out from the dead money as well.
 

brandon2348

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The last thing I will do is be an apologist for the Seahawks, Schnieder, or any other team or person, but it seems to me you are exaggerating the Seahawks’ problems. Schnieder obviously made a mistake trading for Harvin before the 2013 season. He knew, or should have known Harvin was a problem child and he paid him a lot of money. But (he and his defenders would no doubt argue) he and Carroll built a good enough team to win it all in spite that mistake. And while the mistake caused them to take a hit money- and cap-wise, no team in the league has deeper pockets than Paul Allen and his approximate $16,000,000,000 net worth. So it's "only" a cap problem: Any problem that can be solved with money will be.

Since none of us were in the locker room with Harvin we can’t know all the facts or how destructive his attitude was. As far as other Seahawks players causing distractions: All distractions are not created equal. Someone like Sherman mouthing off is far different than a player engaging in fights with his teammates, as Harvin did with both Tate and Baldwin. And they weren’t “scrimmage fights” where a player on one side of the ball goes after another on the other side. Harvin’s fights were with fellow WRs.

This is from the National Football Post: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Percy-Harvin-got-into-fights-with-teammates-refused-to-play.html



If you're saying the Seahawks have a lot of players as bad as Harvin, I'd like to see the evidence.

I'm saying they have more problems then just the Harvin deal. They won a Super Bowl and I hope there fans hold on tightly to the tape cause this team is heading in the wrong direction. On the outside it looks pretty good because you see the Super Bowl championship which is great but if you look at the last three year timeline of there drafting and off-season moves while factoring in current roster and salary cap this team is not set up well.

I live in Seattle so I hear things. Lot's of rumors but where there is a lot of smoke there is usually fire. I personally think Carroll has lost some control over the team with his loose approach. There appears also to be a riff between many players and Wilson.

I don't think I am exaggerating at all. Go look up there last three drafts and start there.
 

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Great GMs are fantastic at thinking forward. 2, 5... 7 million might not seem like a lot of money but it very much can be and it adds up quickly if you have it to spend.

Let's say I have the best QB in the NFL and he's coming up in 2 years. I happen to be 5-7 million under the cap in October. That measly 5-7 million looks really good to that QB as a signing bonus. It's one of the few ways to really find a win/win on these contracts. The player got re-upped and a nice chunk in a signing bonus and the team will reap the rewards by paying current market rates instead of the rate they would pay 2 years from now. (Often with little added salary for the next 2 years)

Seattle has so many guys do that they can't even go there and they're trying to get out from the dead money as well.

I'd agree. Just don't think the Sherman extension alone has lead to letting free agent defensive lineman walk.
 
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I'd agree. Just don't think the Sherman extension alone has lead to letting free agent defensive lineman walk.

Agreed... no one "event" caused them to have to sign their entire team within a 2 year window, including their best players. ... but that's the position they find themselves in.
 

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I'm saying they have more problems then just the Harvin deal.
And my point is lumping Harvin in with Sherman and "several players (in the Seahawks' locker room) that cause distractions" doesn’t make sense unless there is more evidence to support that charge. Also it certainly looks like there were more reasons to get rid of Harvin than just "because Wilson didn't like him or his attitude or his work ethic…"

But here's something I'm sure we can agree upon: I hope there are a lot more problems in the Seahawks organization going forward, from locker room squabbles, to Carroll losing the team, to cap problems. But hoping 'don’t make it so'.
 

brandon2348

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Agreed... no one "event" caused them to have to sign their entire team within a 2 year window, including their best players. ... but that's the position they find themselves in.

Well i'm never gonna complain again about TT holding on to his draft picks to long and trying to develop them because those rookie contracts are so cap friendly. The seahawks havent been able to draft effectively over the last three years and have dumped a lot of there draft picks early before they had a chance to develop.

But yes I agree it wasn't one event. Its a 3 year timeline of bad moves by Schnieder.
 

brandon2348

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And my point is lumping Harvin in with Sherman and "several players (in the Seahawks' locker room) that cause distractions" doesn’t make sense unless there is more evidence to support that charge. Also it certainly looks like there were more reasons to get rid of Harvin than just "because Wilson didn't like him or his attitude or his work ethic…"

But here's something I'm sure we can agree upon: I hope there are a lot more problems in the Seahawks organization going forward, from locker room squabbles, to Carroll losing the team, to cap problems. But hoping 'don’t make it so'.

Well I am not hoping they wont make the playoffs this years because they wont. NO WAY.
 
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They have lots of money to spend under the cap but have so much dead money that they can't sign with bonuses like Ted did with Rodgers. So they don't have ANY ability to do that.

They will have approximately $43 million in cap space for next season and won't have any problem signing Wilson to a deal similar to the extension Rodgers signed last year. It seems you have no idea how the signing salary cap system works regarding signing bonuses.
 

brandon2348

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They will have approximately $43 million in cap space for next season and won't have any problem signing Wilson to a deal similar to the extension Rodgers signed last year. It seems you have no idea how the signing salary cap system works regarding signing bonuses.

Looks good now but you gotta figure the big deal to Wilson and then there is Averil, Carpenter, K.J Wright, Malcolm Smith, Byron Maxwell.

I don't see how they fit all those guys in 43 million cause you can't run it right up to that number. That's why I don't see them bringing Lynch back even if he wants too which leaves them with same roster they basically have now which has no perimeter weapons, depth on defense, and dominant D-line and now no "dominant running back".

Three and out on Schneider's drafting and its called "BYE BYE"
 

brandon2348

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I mean this Schneider dude passed up both Jordan Matthews and Devante Adams and took Paul Richardson.

Thanks John.
 
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Looks good now but you gotta figure the big deal to Wilson and then there is Averil, Carpenter, K.J Wright, Malcolm Smith, Byron Maxwell.

I don't see how they fit all those guys in 43 million cause you can't run it right up to that number.

If the Seahawks structure Wilson's deal in a similar way to how the Packers did with Rodgers' extension they will have more than $30 million cap space available for next season.

That should leave them with enough cap space to re-sign whoever they want.
 
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They will have approximately $43 million in cap space for next season and won't have any problem signing Wilson to a deal similar to the extension Rodgers signed last year. It seems you have no idea how the signing salary cap system works regarding signing bonuses.

it seams that you can't read. I fully understand the cap and signing bonuses and dead money and every aspect of it. it seams as though you can't debate something without google.
 

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Good article on the implications vs the cap on the Harvin trade at the National football post.
 
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Looks good now but you gotta figure the big deal to Wilson and then there is Averil, Carpenter, K.J Wright, Malcolm Smith, Byron Maxwell.

I don't see how they fit all those guys in 43 million cause you can't run it right up to that number. That's why I don't see them bringing Lynch back even if he wants too which leaves them with same roster they basically have now which has no perimeter weapons, depth on defense, and dominant D-line and now no "dominant running back".

Three and out on Schneider's drafting and its called "BYE BYE"

No.. you are wrong. Sure Wilson's contract will eat over 1/4 of that entire cap space. ... but they still will have 30 mil to sign the rest of the roster that's also coming due. No big deal. The Seahags can just do the same with all of their other stud players that are due. Just offer them all big signing bonuses and push them out 4 years. :confused:;)
 
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No.. you are wrong. Sure Wilson's contract will eat over 1/4 of that entire cap space. ... but they still will have 30 mil to sign the rest of the roster that's also coming due. No big deal. The Seahags can just do the same with all of their other stud players that are due. Just offer them all big signing bonuses and push them out 4 years. :confused:;)

Do you realize the Packers paid huge signing bonuses to Rodgers, Matthews, Nelson and Shields ($86 million in total) which will be prorated over the next five years as well???
 

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Good article on the implications vs the cap on the Harvin trade at the National football post.

yes, I posted that on the prev page.

Looks like your the only one that noticed


Nomofo, please read that article

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-salary-cap-implications-of-the-Percy-Harvin-trade.html

The Seahawks have $105.2 million in 2015 cap commitments with 40 players under contract after factoring in Harvin’s dead money. The team could have in excess of $40 million in cap space when the 2015 league year starts next March. Expect some portion of Seattle’s cap room to be used on a blockbuster contract extension for Russell Wilson, which could make him the NFL’s highest paid player.
The extra cap room from the Harvin trade might also make it easier for the Seahawks to keep Marshawn Lynch in the final year of his contract at his $8.5 million cap number.[
/QUOTE]
 

PackerDNA

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Yeah, that was a good catch, longtimefan. It gets to the heart of the matter without being too drawn out.
 

brandon2348

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If the Seahawks structure Wilson's deal in a similar way to how the Packers did with Rodgers' extension they will have more than $30 million cap space available for next season.

That should leave them with enough cap space to re-sign whoever they want.


Sounds like a lot of shopping at "Wal-Mart" to me.
 
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yes, I posted that on the prev page.

Looks like your the only one that noticed


Nomofo, please read that article

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-salary-cap-implications-of-the-Percy-Harvin-trade.html

Yes, I read it.
This is from the article you posted: "The decision to trade for and pay Harvin likely hindered Seattle’s ability to re-sign Golden Tate, the team’s leading receiver in 2013." People are down playing the losses Seattle already has had in players without even beginning to talk about the next two years.

The article suggests they're in great shape because they have 40 players under contract. I had earlier posted the facts behind the amount of free agents Seattle has coming due. It's very misleading to suggest they have 43 mil in cap space AND 40 players under contract so all is "just fine". They have 43 million in cap space and have 47 players coming due in the next 2 years. THAT tells us a lot more about the realities of their situation.

Please check out this site. This lists all of the players coming due in 2015 and 2016 for each team. Take a look at the Packers and Seattle and take a look at the actual players coming due. Heads up...you will need to scroll when looking at Seattle's and it's a list of whose who on their team. http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/seattle-seahawks/
Go a step further and to give you perspective, take a look at other teams with similar cap numbers. I just did that. I think a person could easily argue Seattle has the biggest challenge in the league over the next 2 years to try to keep this roster like it looks now. Like I've been saying all along here, they basically have to sign their entire roster including their superstars.
 
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Yes, I read it.
This is from the article you posted: "The decision to trade for and pay Harvin likely hindered Seattle’s ability to re-sign Golden Tate, the team’s leading receiver in 2013." People are down playing the losses Seattle already has had in players without even beginning to talk about the next two years.

The article suggests they're in great shape because they have 40 players under contract. I had earlier posted the facts behind the amount of free agents Seattle has coming due. It's very misleading to suggest they have 43 mil in cap space AND 40 players under contract so all is "just fine". They have 43 million in cap space and have 47 players coming due in the next 2 years. THAT tells us a lot more about the realities of their situation.

Please check out this site. This lists all of the players coming due in 2015 and 2016 for each team. Take a look at the Packers and Seattle and take a look at the actual players coming due. Heads up...you will need to scroll when looking at Seattle's and it's a list of whose who on their team. http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/seattle-seahawks/
Go a step further and to give you perspective, take a look at other teams with similar cap numbers. I just did that. I think a person could easily argue Seattle has the biggest challenge in the league over the next 2 years to try to keep this roster like it looks now. Like I've been saying all along here, they basically have to sign their entire roster including their superstars.

The Seahawks have Earl Thomas, Kam
Chancellor, Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett under contract through at least 2017. They will extend Wilson's contract in the offseason as well as probably Bruce Irvin's and Bobby Wagner's as well (they aren't allowed to do that until next the league year under the current CBA). Those six guys should be a pretty good core for a defense. Seattle for sure lacks talent at the receiver position but they will have enough cap space to add some talent there.
 

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IMO, Schneider went for the 'put us over the top' killer move with Harvin, and lost. But they've hit on most such moves- Avril, Bennett, Lynch. I agree with TT's model of draft and develop which has the added benefit of keeping down cap costs. But every now and then, you have to go out and get that 'over the top' player. The difference with Thompson is he is very judicious in this area; such moves are few and far between, but he's hit on all of them with great benefit to the team. Woodson, Pickett, and so far Peppers have been big moves with big payoffs.
Schneider lost on Harvin, but has hit on many other choices in the draft, UFA, and trade markets.
I believe they looked at the pros and cons long term and will have it figured out.
The system of the good draft low in concert with the cap is designed to prevent the top teams from dominating for long or the bad teams from staying down. Again, I believe the Seahawks and Packers are among the teams that have it figured out as well as it can be.
 

brandon2348

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IMO, Schneider went for the 'put us over the top' killer move with Harvin, and lost. But they've hit on most such moves- Avril, Bennett, Lynch. I agree with TT's model of draft and develop which has the added benefit of keeping down cap costs. But every now and then, you have to go out and get that 'over the top' player. The difference with Thompson is he is very judicious in this area; such moves are few and far between, but he's hit on all of them with great benefit to the team. Woodson, Pickett, and so far Peppers have been big moves with big payoffs.
Schneider lost on Harvin, but has hit on many other choices in the draft, UFA, and trade markets.
I believe they looked at the pros and cons long term and will have it figured out.
The system of the good draft low in concert with the cap is designed to prevent the top teams from dominating for long or the bad teams from staying down. Again, I believe the Seahawks and Packers are among the teams that have it figured out as well as it can be.

Schnieder had some great early drafts but his drafting over last couple years is horrid. Looks like a rookie gambler that had some beginners luck to me. He has drafted one starter in last two years out of 20 picks. Half the guys he has drafted aren't even on there roster or practice squad. How is that good drafting and developing?

Once again if TT had those results people would be calling for his head. Don't put the Seahawks in the same league as our front office please.

As far as the Harvin deal putting the Seahawks "over the top" that may have been the goal but I would argue Schneider is now eligible and qualified to write a book called "How to destroy a roster and potential dynasty", Good news for us is we don't have to worry about the Seahawks anymore. They knocked themselves out.
 

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