The Packers - Committed to their own

GleefulGary

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
4,890
Reaction score
423
*points to himself*

I was one of those questioning this "decline" you speak of. While yes, his stats and performances were in "decline", I still think it was a combination of injuries, MM's offense, MLF's newly installed offense, a shortage of solid receivers and Rodgers lack of trust or maybe his frustration in all of the above.

Fast forward to 2020 and everything is clicking on all cylinders and you have a rejuvenated Rodgers that is playing some of his best football.

All that said, was Gute justified in thinking Rodgers better days were behind him and maybe if the opportunity presented itself in the 2020 draft, he grab some insurance? Yup.

Same receivers.

I can buy the new offense arguments, but he was throwing off his back foot, missing easy passes to the flats. In hindsight, there were plenty of issues in his play not relayed to who he was throwing to.
 

PikeBadger

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
3,888
Reaction score
244
Same receivers.

I can buy the new offense arguments, but he was throwing off his back foot, missing easy passes to the flats. In hindsight, there were plenty of issues in his play not relayed to who he was throwing to.
It appeared to me that Rodgers definitely cleaned up his mechanics last year at camp and I think the coaches helped him realize he wasn’t throwing the way he did back in the first half of the last decade.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
5,259
Reaction score
481
Honest to God I think Shailene Woodley has done an amazing thing for his mentality just in life in general. She is utterly clueless of sports, let alone football and knows he throws a ball around is about her extent of knowledge.

Talk about having someone to really allow you to separate from your job and just be more "you" with and escape.
 
Last edited:

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
25,654
Reaction score
1,298
If Rodgers had continued his slide, you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious decline. The multiple year trend.

No, I was pretty adamant about the Packers' need to add another target for Rodgers in last year's draft. Therefore I wouldn't have blasted Gutekunst for not selecting a quarterback at all.

Anyone using Rodger's 2020 season as some kind of evidence that the Love pick was a bad one at the time, is really stretching the hindsight argument meter out pretty far. All you should be looking at when evaluating the "why was Love picked?", is the information known at the time of the pick, not after. All you have to do is look at Rodgers previous 3 years, his age, the implied turmoil within the organization, his contract and you have your answers as to why Gute pulled the trigger on what he felt could be the Franchise QB of the Packers future.

I was pretty vocal about not liking the Love pick from the get-go for reasons stated repeatedly, therefore I'm not using hindsight to criticize it now.

I mean, did you watch him the last few years prior to 2020?

Because the decline was evident. You can even see it statistically. If you watch, you can see his mechanics were off. The injury part of it is rather obvious.

So if I noticed, and the media noticed, I’m rather positive the front office noticed. They’re smarter than me by a long shot.

And we all know how the hindsight argument works here. I’ll stand by that.

The front office should have known Rodgers was capable of turning it around as well though.

All that said, was Gute justified in thinking Rodgers better days were behind him and maybe if the opportunity presented itself in the 2020 draft, he grab some insurance? Yup.

There's no need to trade up in the first round to grab some insurance.

Did he maybe have a little more time last year to throw?

According to Next Gen Stats Rodgers got rid of the ball faster in 2020 (2.72 seconds) than in '19 (2.88).
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
22,790
Reaction score
2,693
Location
Madison, WI
You must be logged in to see this image or video!


Brandt nailed it. However, the media and fans want to make it complicated, since its more fun to talk about it when they inject a lot of "what if, I think, I heard and did you know's" into the discussion.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
22,790
Reaction score
2,693
Location
Madison, WI
There's no need to trade up in the first round to grab some insurance.

Gute would disagree with you on this, at least at the time of the draft. ;)

Saying there is "no need" has yet to be fully proven. Also at the time, Gute obviously felt there was a need. While I get your points about the timing and where Rodgers is, etc., I don't understand why you can't just simply say "At this time, the Love pick is trending towards possibly being unnecessary and a bad one", however, there isn't enough information or history yet to really know how it will work out, stay tuned."

I respect a lot of what you post Capt. but being hell bent on proving something that hasn't fully played out just yet, just doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
 
Last edited:

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
4,622
Reaction score
233
Same receivers.

I can buy the new offense arguments, but he was throwing off his back foot, missing easy passes to the flats. In hindsight, there were plenty of issues in his play not relayed to who he was throwing to.

Many of which can be excused as being in the first year of a new offense. People that didn't realize there would be growing pains haven't looked at the history of how those transitions go.
 

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
22,043
Reaction score
2,100
Location
Milwaukee
Many of which can be excused as being in the first year of a new offense. People that didn't realize there would be growing pains haven't looked at the history of how those transitions go.
I believe He was talking about 2019..

So when a new qb takes over ( love or someone else) Remeber this post of yours
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
25,654
Reaction score
1,298
Brandt nailed it. However, the media and fans want to make it complicated, since its more fun to talk about it when they inject a lot of "what if, I think, I heard and did you know's" into the discussion.

It's not as easy as that though. If Rodgers decides to not play for the Packers anymore they will be forced to make a move either way.

Saying there is "no need" has yet to be fully proven. Also at the time, Gute obviously felt there was a need. While I get your points about the timing and where Rodgers is, etc., I don't understand why you can't just simply say "At this time, the Love pick is trending towards possibly being unnecessary and a bad one", however, there isn't enough information or history yet to really know how it will work out, stay tuned."

I have never mentioned that the Love pick should be ultimately evaluated at this point. It will take several years before anyone can fairly do that in my opinion.

The point I was trying to make in my last response to the topic was that Gutekunst should definitely not have traded up to select Love if he solely felt the need to add some insurance. The only reason that move made any sense was the general manager believing that Love will develop into another above average starter at worst.

I respect a lot of what you post Capt. but being hell bent on proving something that hasn't fully played out just yet, just doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

As mentioned above I haven't done that by any means. That doesn't mean I have to agree with the move though.
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,831
Reaction score
388
The point I was trying to make in my last response to the topic was that Gutekunst should definitely not have traded up to select Love if he solely felt the need to add some insurance. The only reason that move made any sense was the general manager believing that Love will develop into another above average starter at worst.


.

The only reason? How about a little bit of both? Lets say Gute is thinking he needs some insurance just in case Rodgers play declines. He is sitting there with his pick and a QB that he deems a potential above average starter (using your words) drops into range but he doesn't think he will last those next few picks so he trades up to get him. So your idea is that if you are going to add insurance it only makes sense to just take whoever is there for you. That it makes no sense to make sure that insurance is someone you feel will have a chance to succeed. In other words if Gute felt the need to add insurance he should have just waited and took whatever QB fell to him rather than go get a guy he thought would be the best for the job and potentially be the next above average starting QB.

As I have said before if Rodgers had had an MVP season in 2019 I would bet anything Gute wouldn't have drafted JL. Since he (Rodgers) didn't and he (Gute) did Its not a far stretch to think that he(Gute) felt getting some insurance was a good idea. It's just a shame that Gute's crystal ball was broken and he didn't foresee Rodgers' epic 2020 comeback after three consecutive years of play that many deemed a decline.
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
25,654
Reaction score
1,298
The only reason? How about a little bit of both? Lets say Gute is thinking he needs some insurance just in case Rodgers play declines. He is sitting there with his pick and a QB that he deems a potential above average starter (using your words) drops into range but he doesn't think he will last those next few picks so he trades up to get him. So your idea is that if you are going to add insurance it only makes sense to just take whoever is there for you. That it makes no sense to make sure that insurance is someone you feel will have a chance to succeed. In other words if Gute felt the need to add insurance he should have just waited and took whatever QB fell to him rather than go get a guy he thought would be the best for the job and potentially be the next above average starting QB.

As I have said before if Rodgers had had an MVP season in 2019 I would bet anything Gute wouldn't have drafted JL. Since he (Rodgers) didn't and he (Gute) did Its not a far stretch to think that he(Gute) felt getting some insurance was a good idea. It's just a shame that Gute's crystal ball was broken and he didn't foresee Rodgers' epic 2020 comeback after three consecutive years of play that many deemed a decline.

I don't think a rookie quarterback would have provided any insurance in case Rodgers performance declined last season. The proof is in the pudding as Love wasn't even able to move past Boyle on the depth chart.

That wasn't my point though as I took the comments about Gutekunst trading up to select Love as an insurance in a way that posters feel fine about him ending up being a backup. In that case the move didn't make any sense to me at all.

As a side note, Gutekunst gets paid a boatload of money to make decisions like evaluating Rodgers. He definitely botched that one last offseason.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
12,566
Reaction score
1,185
Love was not chosen for last year. I can't believe it would be argued he was. he wasn't even drafted for this year. It was fairly obvious to me Love wasn't going to be a factor until 2022 in any decision making other than by being forced into one from the day he was picked.

you can be as mad as you want and think it was a mistake as much as you'd like that he chose a QB for 3 years down the road to maybe be a factor in decision making, but to argue he drafted love because he thought Rodgers was done for last year is ridiculous IMO. YOU may not think there is logic in planning on the future when dealing with a QB that is almost 40 and had already missed significant time in 2 of the previous 3 season with injury or had his play affected by it for a good part of it with a knee injury, but most other NFL professionals would probably concede there is.
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
25,654
Reaction score
1,298
Love was not chosen for last year. I can't believe it would be argued he was. he wasn't even drafted for this year. It was fairly obvious to me Love wasn't going to be a factor until 2022 in any decision making other than by being forced into one from the day he was picked.

you can be as mad as you want and think it was a mistake as much as you'd like that he chose a QB for 3 years down the road to maybe be a factor in decision making, but to argue he drafted love because he thought Rodgers was done for last year is ridiculous IMO.

Who said anything about Love being drafted for last season? Let me be clear about it, with the Packers coming off making it to the NFCCG it was a stupid idea to use the team's first round pick on a player possibly having an impact three years down the road.

YOU may not think there is logic in planning on the future when dealing with a QB that is almost 40 and had already missed significant time in 2 of the previous 3 season with injury or had his play affected by it for a good part of it with a knee injury, but most other NFL professionals would probably concede there is.

What do you base that assumption off? Neither the Colts, Broncos, Patriots or Saints spent a first round pick on a qurterback three years in advance to replace their aging HOF quarterback in the last decade.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
22,790
Reaction score
2,693
Location
Madison, WI
The same way all the supporters of the Love pick are CERTAIN Love is worth waiting 3-4 years for while already having the best QB ever on the team. I.e., MAGIC

I have yet to see someone post that they are "CERTAIN" that Love is worth waiting 3-4 years for. But I believe you either saw it or have convinced yourself that those who are fully sure of that are out there. What I have seen though, are a number of posters talk about the "facts as we know them right now" concerning why Love was drafted, as well as the unknown futures of both him and Rogers. I have also seen a few posters that seem to be certain that Love is not the QB of the future, to which I would ask "how do they know that?" I think we will know a lot more about Love, to start basing some of those "certainties" on facts, after he has actually taken some live snaps in the NFL for us to watch.

Was Love a guy that was going to help us out immediately? Hell no and I totally get that some were mad about that, I was. However, I can name more draft picks that were drafted for their perceived future ability, than they were drafted for immediate help. Rashan Gary instantly comes to mind and he was a #12 pick, after we signed 2 high priced FA OLB's.

Love was a long term contingency that Gute decided was worth the investment, as well as the wait for it to possibly pay off. I'm going to stay hopeful that he was right and at some point, there is a smoothish transition from Rodgers to Love. If Rodgers or Packer fans don't see why that plan makes sense, they really aren't looking at it realistically. I prefer what Gute did, than to have waited until the draft after Rodgers is gone. Will it work or will we become one of those teams (Bears, Jets, Jags, Browns, Eagles, Vikings, Broncos, Dolphins, etc.) in constant, desperate search mode for a solid QB? Stay tuned.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
12,566
Reaction score
1,185
Who said anything about Love being drafted for last season? Let me be clear about it, with the Packers coming off making it to the NFCCG it was a stupid idea to use the team's first round pick on a player possibly having an impact three years down the road.



What do you base that assumption off? Neither the Colts, Broncos, Patriots or Saints spent a first round pick on a qurterback three years in advance to replace their aging HOF quarterback in the last decade.
And zero of those teams moved on to their next QB like the Packers did from Favre to Rodgers.


But you’re probably right, most wouldn’t consider the QB the most important position on the field and it’s better to just wait and see what happens.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
12,566
Reaction score
1,185
The same way all the supporters of the Love pick are CERTAIN Love is worth waiting 3-4 years for while already having the best QB ever on the team. I.e., MAGIC
Do you have these conversations with yourself? There hasn’t been a single poster on here that has taken the position you just stated.
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
25,654
Reaction score
1,298
However, I can name more draft picks that were drafted for their perceived future ability, than they were drafted for immediate help. Rashan Gary instantly comes to mind and he was a #12 pick, after we signed 2 high priced FA OLB's.

It might have been smart for Gutekunst to prioritize immediate over possible future impact in last year's draft though.

And zero of those teams moved on to their next QB like the Packers did from Favre to Rodgers.

You're so blinded by the way moving on from Favre to Rodgers has worked out for the Packers that you fully expect that to happen once Rodgers walks away as well while completely ignoring most teams haven't even had a future HOF quarterback over the last 30 years.

I think you're in for a rude awakening.

But you’re probably right, most wouldn’t consider the QB the most important position on the field and it’s better to just wait and see what happens.

That's just a ridiculous statement. Once again you conveniently ignore the facts that others teams have tried to take advantage of having a HOF quarterback as long as possible instead of trying to draft his successor three years in advance.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top