The Packers - Committed to their own

[PikeBadger]

This is absolutely hilarious.

The latest rumor out of left field. The Patriots and Packers are working on a trade for Aaron Rodgers.

Lol, that should liven things up here.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

doesn't surprise me that's what you got out of it. those 2 cells must be working overtime.

That's pretty much the only way to take that. Rookie contracts are 4 years. If Gute thought Rodgers was still a good QB then why would he think Rodgers would need to be replaced within, what, 3 years? Rodgers will be 37 during Love's second season, he'll be 39 at the end of the rookie portion of Love's current contract. In what scenario does it make sense to replace an ,at worst, top-10 QB 3 years too early while also trying to win a Super Bowl?

The only rational explanation, that doesn't involve some twisted fan-logic that Love will automatically be the best QB prospect in the next 5 years to be drafted below pick 20 and turn into an annual MVP-candidate, is that Gute thought Rodgers was declining and believed he needed to be replaced in a year or two. Gute is a pretty good GM, just because he was wrong on that doesn't mean he's suddenly a terrible GM. I do think that decision will somewhat haunt the team's player personnel over the next couple of years but saying, "Gute was wrong in his evaluation of Rodgers" is not me saying, "Gute is the worst GM in the history of pro sports!" (that would be Ted Stepien).

So, rather than not giving me your thoughts on what happened and just responding with a meaningless insult to feel better about yourself, please tell me what logical process is at work for a GM who still believes his QB is great but drafts his replacement in the first round 3-4 years before planning to play him, thereby wasting a fairly valuable aspect of having a good rookie QB, the cheapness of his contract.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Oh, I can play this game.

I'm not sure how anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would think a guy who has worked his way up from an unpaid student coach at a DIII school to trusted scout of a successful franchise and then a GM who has seen his team to back to back NFCCG’s isn't good at evaluating players.

I'm not sure how you're evaluating Gute as some master evaluator after 3 drafts in which he's drafted great players like Jaire, Savage, and Jenkins but has also drafted Josh Jackson, Oren Burks, and Sternberger (admittedly has about one more year to turn it around). So far, Gute appears pretty good early in the draft (no busts so far which is terrific) but pretty spotty after that. I know you like to take things in the worst possible way so let me be SUPER clear: Gute is a good GM. He's not perfect. He's obviously a very hard worker who loves football, so are a LOT of people, so what you just listed there is fun for the fan guide but probably not what actually qualifies him as a good GM.

 

[Mondio]

That's pretty much the only way to take that. Rookie contracts are 4 years. If Gute thought Rodgers was still a good QB then why would he think Rodgers would need to be replaced within, what, 3 years? Rodgers will be 37 during Love's second season, he'll be 39 at the end of the rookie portion of Love's current contract. In what scenario does it make sense to replace an ,at worst, top-10 QB 3 years too early while also trying to win a Super Bowl?

The only rational explanation, that doesn't involve some twisted fan-logic that Love will automatically be the best QB prospect in the next 5 years to be drafted below pick 20 and turn into an annual MVP-candidate, is that Gute thought Rodgers was declining and believed he needed to be replaced in a year or two. Gute is a pretty good GM, just because he was wrong on that doesn't mean he's suddenly a terrible GM. I do think that decision will somewhat haunt the team's player personnel over the next couple of years but saying, "Gute was wrong in his evaluation of Rodgers" is not me saying, "Gute is the worst GM in the history of pro sports!" (that would be Ted Stepien).

So, rather than not giving me your thoughts on what happened and just responding with a meaningless insult to feel better about yourself, please tell me what logical process is at work for a GM who still believes his QB is great but drafts his replacement in the first round 3-4 years before planning to play him, thereby wasting a fairly valuable aspect of having a good rookie QB, the cheapness of his contract.

Ahhh yes, I started with the insults lol

as if I haven’t given my thoughts on the whole love pick and Rodgers in GB many times over you need it again?

I saw your half a braincomment and raised you 2 cells.

you guys are probably right. Gute rose to the level of a GM from nothing by being a great scout be he couldn’t evaluate his QB

 

[Poppa San]

The latest rumor out of left field. The Patriots and Packers are working on a trade for Aaron Rodgers.

I doubt this will happen but it does bring up a point: Do the rules allow the Pats to reimburse the roster bonus so the Packers get the cap space back? What about some of the signing bonus? Is there anything that says they can't?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

you guys are probably right. Gute rose to the level of a GM from nothing by being a great scout be he couldn’t evaluate his QB

Do you honestly believe Gutekunst would have traded up to select Love if he was convinced Rodgers would be able to put up the second best season in NFL history based on passer rating???

Do the rules allow the Pats to reimburse the roster bonus so the Packers get the cap space back? What about some of the signing bonus? Is there anything that says they can't?

Here's the part of the CBA regulating traded contracts:

In the event that a Player Contract is assigned to another NFL Team, either by trade or pursuant to the NFL’s waiver procedure, the assignee Team will count as part of its Team Salary only that portion of the player’s Salary which remains unpaid and for which the Team may be obligated. The assignor Team will continue to count as part of its Team Salary only that portion of the player’s Salary which has already been paid by the Team and/or any Salary for which the Team remains obligated.

It seems pretty clear that the Packers would be on the hook for the remaining prorated portion of the signing bonus as well as the roster bonus being paid in March.

 

[Mondio]

Do you honestly believe Gutekunst would have traded up to select Love if he was convinced Rodgers would be able to put up the second best season in NFL history based on passer rating???

Do you Honestly believe he didn't know he had one of easily the top 3 QB's in the entire league on his roster? Do you honestly believe they went into the draft thinking they had to get a replacement for their QB He had just guaranteed 100 million dollars to?

Love wasn't drafted for last year, so no, what Rodgers did last year, or they thought he'd do had no real effect on their decision to take him.

 

[lambeaulambo]

I think Burks was Thompson. He's been lingering on the team for a bit.

 

[sschind]

[

Do you Honestly believe he didn't know he had one of easily the top 3 QB's in the entire league on his roster? Do you honestly believe they went into the draft thinking they had to get a replacement for their QB He had just guaranteed 100 million dollars to?

Love wasn't drafted for last year, so no, what Rodgers did last year, or they thought he'd do had no real effect on their decision to take him.

I think Gute was going off of Rodgers' performance and injury history of the previous 3 years when he saw Love was attainable. It was a 3 year trend that suggested it might be a good idea to get someone for the future just in case Rodgers continued on his then current path.

I have no idea what Gute may or may not have thought about how Rodgers could or would perform in 2020. I don't know if he saw or still sees Love as Rodgers' replacement or more as insurance. What I am fairly confident in is that Gute viewed Love as a talent he couldn't let get away so he didn't. Whether that proves to be a good move or not remains to be seen.

I will say however that if Rodgers stays in Green Bay for the next three years or even beyond and Love moves on without playing any meaningful snaps for the Packers Im not going to hold it too much against Gute for recognizing a potential problem and going after someone he was very confident could help deal with it.

 

[swhitset]

I think Burks was Thompson. He's been lingering on the team for a bit.

Nope... Burks was drafted in 2018 by Gute. In fact Gute traded back up into the 3rd round to select Burks.... something I have never been able to understand.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you Honestly believe he didn't know he had one of easily the top 3 QB's in the entire league on his roster? Do you honestly believe they went into the draft thinking they had to get a replacement for their QB He had just guaranteed 100 million dollars to?

I'm convinced Gutekunst was skeptical about Rodgers being able to perform at an elite level moving forward at the point of the 2020 draft.

The Packers and Rodgers agreed to his current contract in 2018, last April the deal had only $19.5 million in guaranteed money left, all of which was to be paid last season.

I will say however that if Rodgers stays in Green Bay for the next three years or even beyond and Love moves on without playing any meaningful snaps for the Packers Im not going to hold it too much against Gute for recognizing a potential problem and going after someone he was very confident could help deal with it.

I vehemently disagree. If Love ends up leaving after four years without having played any meaningful snaps for the Packers the trade up to select him should be considered a colossal mistake.

Especially considering the team made it to the NFCCG the season before picking Love and were only some plays going their way away from winning the Super Bowl in 2020.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

[


I think Gute was going off of Rodgers' performance and injury history of the previous 3 years when he saw Love was attainable. It was a 3 year trend that suggested it might be a good idea to get someone for the future just in case Rodgers continued on his then current path.

I have no idea what Gute may or may not have thought about how Rodgers could or would perform in 2020. I don't know if he saw or still sees Love as Rodgers' replacement or more as insurance. What I am fairly confident in is that Gute viewed Love as a talent he couldn't let get away so he didn't. Whether that proves to be a good move or not remains to be seen.

I will say however that if Rodgers stays in Green Bay for the next three years or even beyond and Love moves on without playing any meaningful snaps for the Packers Im not going to hold it too much against Gute for recognizing a potential problem and going after someone he was very confident could help deal with it.

Must be nice to be paid millions of dollars and not be held accountable for mis-spending some of the most valuable capital your company has. Gute getting treated like an actual CEO.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm convinced Gutekunst was skeptical about Rodgers being able to perform at an elite level moving forward at the point of the 2020 draft.

I would agree with you here. I also think Gutekunst had valid reasons to believe that.

Prior to this last year, Rodgers had multiple injuries causing him to miss game, and then causing him to not play quite to his normal level. His mechanics were slipping. His play was slipping. He avoided turnovers like a savant, but he also missed plays, missed easy throws he normally makes, missed open receivers. He still made incredible plays, but if we’re honest, they were few and far between.

So Rodgers had some injury issues, a multiple year trend of declining play, and he was 35/36. I think it’s fair to question at that point that he might be sliding, especially since mobility had been such an important part of his game, and that doesn’t improve with age.

If Rodgers had continued his slide, you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious decline. The multiple year trend.

 

[Poppa San]

The multiple year trend.

This season will probably answer whether last year was an aberration, the last hurrah, as it were during an inevitable decline. Or were the previous few years influenced by a stale offensive scheme followed by the first year of a new system? Too soon to tell.

 

[tynimiller]

I would agree with you here. I also think Gutekunst had valid reasons to believe that.

Prior to this last year, Rodgers had multiple injuries causing him to miss game, and then causing him to not play quite to his normal level. His mechanics were slipping. His play was slipping. He avoided turnovers like a savant, but he also missed plays, missed easy throws he normally makes, missed open receivers. He still made incredible plays, but if we’re honest, they were few and far between.

So Rodgers had some injury issues, a multiple year trend of declining play, and he was 35/36. I think it’s fair to question at that point that he might be sliding, especially since mobility had been such an important part of his game, and that doesn’t improve with age.

If Rodgers had continued his slide, you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious decline. The multiple year trend.

Not sure why or how @Sunshinepacker disagrees and look forward to explanation. I see it as you laid out - which for the record is not the same as stating oneself would have done the exact same, I'd have never traded up for Love...however had Love been there at our original pick and the last few years with Rodgers and aging I'd have had a struggle with it at minimum (especially putting yourself in the shoes of a GM that clearly felt Love was a Top Prospect and high on their board).

 

[Firethorn1001]

So Rodgers had some injury issues, a multiple year trend of declining play, and he was 35/36. I think it’s fair to question at that point that he might be sliding, especially since mobility had been such an important part of his game, and that doesn’t improve with age.

People miss the other elephant in the room. It was April. We were 30-45 days into the Pandemic, there was no guarantee of football in 2020 so, that would be 2 years off for an aging QB that wasn't playing like himself.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Anyone using Rodger's 2020 season as some kind of evidence that the Love pick was a bad one at the time, is really stretching the hindsight argument meter out pretty far. All you should be looking at when evaluating the "why was Love picked?", is the information known at the time of the pick, not after. All you have to do is look at Rodgers previous 3 years, his age, the implied turmoil within the organization, his contract and you have your answers as to why Gute pulled the trigger on what he felt could be the Franchise QB of the Packers future.

I have yet to hear Gute say "Love is our man in 2022 or 2023". Yet people want to infer that if he isn't, he was a wasted pick? Let it play out and see where it goes. Of course Rodgers 2020 season, along with Covid have pushed the timetable into the future almost a year, but JFC, lets see what Love can do, before crucifying Gute for the pick. Because if he did strike gold on the Love pick, even as much as I love #12, I am fine with him not finishing his career in GB.

Knowing everything you know about Rodgers and the QB situation right now, had Gute not drafted Love a year ago and he really liked Trey Lance as a future franchise QB, if Lance fell to 29, would you think Gute to be nuts if he picked him?

 

[tynimiller]

Knowing everything you know about Rodgers and the QB situation right now, had Gute not drafted Love a year ago and he really liked Trey Lance as a future franchise QB, if Lance fell to 29, would you think Gute to be nuts if he picked him?

To be fair if Rodgers had suffered injury again or age looked prevalent again, I'd probably be banging the drum pretty hard for any of the concensus top 5 if they fell and Kyle Trask if they didn't truly. FTR I believe Trask could be the shocker of this draft at the next level, all depends where he goes - he needs a situation like if Tampa Bay added him, or us (pretend Love doesn't exist) where he doesn't have to start year 1 but might year 2.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would agree with you here. I also think Gutekunst had valid reasons to believe that.

Prior to this last year, Rodgers had multiple injuries causing him to miss game, and then causing him to not play quite to his normal level. His mechanics were slipping. His play was slipping. He avoided turnovers like a savant, but he also missed plays, missed easy throws he normally makes, missed open receivers. He still made incredible plays, but if we’re honest, they were few and far between.

So Rodgers had some injury issues, a multiple year trend of declining play, and he was 35/36. I think it’s fair to question at that point that he might be sliding, especially since mobility had been such an important part of his game, and that doesn’t improve with age.

If Rodgers had continued his slide, you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious decline. The multiple year trend.

Not sure why or how @Sunshinepacker disagrees and look forward to explanation. I see it as you laid out - which for the record is not the same as stating oneself would have done the exact same, I'd have never traded up for Love...however had Love been there at our original pick and the last few years with Rodgers and aging I'd have had a struggle with it at minimum (especially putting yourself in the shoes of a GM that clearly felt Love was a Top Prospect and high on their board).

I didn't think it was worth it to type out that "you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious" is incorrect since his "decline" wasn't obvious. Apparently that comment is necessary to some though. So, there ya go.

 

[tynimiller]

I didn't think it was worth it to type out that "you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious" is incorrect since his "decline" wasn't obvious. Apparently that comment is necessary to some though. So, there ya go.

Me? I was one of the quickest to express the logic behind why Love made sense...I don't believe I'd have done it but still. All discussed well before a down was played in 2020 and we had no clue what Aaron was coming into town.

 

[GleefulGary]

I didn't think it was worth it to type out that "you and others would have blasted Gute for not seeing the obvious" is incorrect since his "decline" wasn't obvious. Apparently that comment is necessary to some though. So, there ya go.

I mean, did you watch him the last few years prior to 2020?

Because the decline was evident. You can even see it statistically. If you watch, you can see his mechanics were off. The injury part of it is rather obvious.

So if I noticed, and the media noticed, I’m rather positive the front office noticed. They’re smarter than me by a long shot.

And we all know how the hindsight argument works here. I’ll stand by that.

 

[longtimefan]

I mean, did you watch him the last few years prior to 2020?

Because the decline was evident. You can even see it statistically. If you watch, you can see his mechanics were off. The injury part of it is rather obvious.

So if I noticed, and the media noticed, I’m rather positive the front office noticed. They’re smarter than me by a long shot.

And we all know how the hindsight argument works here. I’ll stand by that.

Few here will admit there was a decline.. I recall posting him missing wheel routes, or missing open wr and etc.

Got push back that it wasnt him but others, they pointed out his stats showed he was good.

Those are the ones that cant accept he was declining

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

To be fair if Rodgers had suffered injury again or age looked prevalent again, I'd probably be banging the drum pretty hard for any of the concensus top 5 if they fell and Kyle Trask if they didn't truly. FTR I believe Trask could be the shocker of this draft at the next level, all depends where he goes - he needs a situation like if Tampa Bay added him, or us (pretend Love doesn't exist) where he doesn't have to start year 1 but might year 2.

Yup or if Rodgers had gotten hurt or had his play continued to decline in 2020, I think many of us would be saying "OK, Jordan Love....what can you do for us, you are up soon!"

 

[tynimiller]

I mean, did you watch him the last few years prior to 2020?

Because the decline was evident. You can even see it statistically. If you watch, you can see his mechanics were off. The injury part of it is rather obvious.

So if I noticed, and the media noticed, I’m rather positive the front office noticed. They’re smarter than me by a long shot.

And we all know how the hindsight argument works here. I’ll stand by that.

Honestly I think even Rodgers would admit he'd put together a couple seasons of concern....may not admit such a thing till he retires, but I bet even he knew.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Few here will admit there was a decline.. I recall posting him missing wheel routes, or missing open wr and etc.

Got push back that it wasnt him but others, they pointed out his stats showed he was good.

Those are the ones that cant accept he was declining

*points to himself*

I was one of those questioning this "decline" you speak of. While yes, his stats and performances were in "decline", I still think it was a combination of injuries, MM's offense, MLF's newly installed offense, a shortage of solid receivers and Rodgers lack of trust or maybe his frustration in all of the above.

Fast forward to 2020 and everything is clicking on all cylinders and you have a rejuvenated Rodgers that is playing some of his best football.

All that said, was Gute justified in thinking Rodgers better days were behind him and maybe if the opportunity presented itself in the 2020 draft, he grab some insurance? Yup.