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Schultz

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I don't see under-center or not much of a problem.

Part of so much gun in 2023 was likely due to the broken finger. Taking a direct snap hurts in that situation.

The Packers alone this year played out of gun a lot. It could certainly end up being more of their identity going forward. It might have also been a specific game plan to attack the Cowboys.
Kinda agree. Posters pointed out the Cowboys struggles with play action. IMO play action is better from under center.
 

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Not picking on you, cuz I get confused with this two too--can you clarify who played behind who? :)

Assuming you mean what I think you mean....

I also don't think Watson started behind Watkins. Watson was the target of Rodgers' first pass of 2022. He was then hurt for most of the next 9 games.
I always enjoy needling posts that are obvious typos, and I had this one all keyed up. Guess I'll have to start getting up earlier. :)
 

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Yeah, the loss of Adams made it even more important that Rodgers lean into the structure/design of the offense, but he did the exact opposite. He exacerbated the loss in the way he reacted to it.
Rodgers, especially over the last 8-10 years seems to always think he's the smartest guy in the room. Not sure he's really a narcissist, but he's definitely an egomaniac. You see it on his McAfee stuff. No matter the subject, he knows best. So if when he is presented with a new direction, of course he's resistant to it because he isn't the one who came up with it. Seeing now how impressive MLF's offense is, with guys just coming wide open play after play, I feel very strongly that his attitude toward MLF probably cost us at least one Super Bowl appearance in MLF's first 4 years. So glad to have a QB who only cares about winning and being a good person for a change.
 

Dantés

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Not picking on you, cuz I get confused with this two too--can you clarify who played behind who? :)

Assuming you mean what I think you mean....

I also don't think Watson started behind Watkins. Watson was the target of Rodgers' first pass of 2022. He was then hurt for most of the next 9 games.

lol. My bad. I’m sure you understood.
 
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and Nan Ness is a question but appears to be on the same mediocre track as Gary.
Much of what you said was accurate. However I disagree with this part. By comparison I’ll use a solid rotational player in Enagbare.

Van Ness last 11 contests
33% Snaps (365 total)
27 combined Tackles
20 Solo
7 TFL (26%)
10 QB hits
4 Sacks

Enagbare last 11 contests
41% Snaps (452 total)
16 combined
12 Solo
4 TFL (25%)
5 QB hits
1 Sack

A starting Edge in SNAPS this season for GB is typically in that 55%-65% area. So you can basically double LVN production and round down a hair. A seasonal pace would be as follows (approximately using
60-65% usage)
50-54 combined Tackles (A- grade)
35-40 Solo (A grade)
12-14 TFL (A- grade
18-20 QB hits (A- grade)
7-8 Sacks (B+ grade)
 
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Dantés

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Rodgers, especially over the last 8-10 years seems to always think he's the smartest guy in the room. Not sure he's really a narcissist, but he's definitely an egomaniac. You see it on his McAfee stuff. No matter the subject, he knows best. So if when he is presented with a new direction, of course he's resistant to it because he isn't the one who came up with it. Seeing now how impressive MLF's offense is, with guys just coming wide open play after play, I feel very strongly that his attitude toward MLF probably cost us at least one Super Bowl appearance in MLF's first 4 years. So glad to have a QB who only cares about winning and being a good person for a change.

I think it's pretty normal for the great ones to resist the writing on the wall, attempting to continue succeeding the ways that they did in their prime.

Peak Rodgers was able to hold the ball, scramble, create plays, and burn defenses outside of structure. It was his super-power. But as his skills and supporting cast eroded, he wasn't able to pull it off to the same effect.

LaFleur was/is capable of putting him into a structure that makes things much easier for him. Look at how many receivers were schemed wide open on Sunday. When the team had leverage, Rodgers was more willing to embrace that structure and he won two MVP's.

But it's clear to me that Rodgers' desire to go back to his previous style of play was still in there because he regained a lot of leverage and turned the dials back his direction majorly in 2022. It had to fail miserably before he leaned back into the design of the offense.
 

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I think it's pretty normal for the great ones to resist the writing on the wall, attempting to continue succeeding the ways that they did in their prime.

Peak Rodgers was able to hold the ball, scramble, create plays, and burn defenses outside of structure. It was his super-power. But as his skills and supporting cast eroded, he wasn't able to pull it off to the same effect.

LaFleur was/is capable of putting him into a structure that makes things much easier for him. Look at how many receivers were schemed wide open on Sunday. When the team had leverage, Rodgers was more willing to embrace that structure and he won two MVP's.

But it's clear to me that Rodgers' desire to go back to his previous style of play was still in there because he regained a lot of leverage and turned the dials back his direction majorly in 2022. It had to fail miserably before he leaned back into the design of the offense.
Just glad he's the Jets' problem now.
 

Schultz

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Rodgers, especially over the last 8-10 years seems to always think he's the smartest guy in the room. Not sure he's really a narcissist, but he's definitely an egomaniac. You see it on his McAfee stuff. No matter the subject, he knows best. So if when he is presented with a new direction, of course he's resistant to it because he isn't the one who came up with it. Seeing now how impressive MLF's offense is, with guys just coming wide open play after play, I feel very strongly that his attitude toward MLF probably cost us at least one Super Bowl appearance in MLF's first 4 years. So glad to have a QB who only cares about winning and being a good person for a change.
I get that Love has been nothing short of great under the circumstances of this season. I get that to many fans AR just plain wore out his welcome. What boggles my mind is the short memory some have. They just can't help themselves it seems. For every Jordan positive post (well deserved) also includes some sort of shot at AR. Love's numbers stand up for themselves. 2023 season 4,159 yds. 64.2 completion %. 4 rushing TDs, 32 passing with 11 Ints. 96.1 rating. AR under MLF. 2020 4,299 yds. 70.7%. 3 rush TDs. 48 passing with 5 Ints. 121.5 rating. 2021 4,115 yds. 68.9%. 3 rushing TDs. 37 passing with 4 Ints. 111.9 rating. Yeah he really sucked in MLFs offense all 4 years.
 

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Much of what you said was accurate. However I disagree with this part. By comparison I’ll use a solid rotational player in Enagbare.

Van Ness last 11 contests
33% Snaps (365 total)
27 combined Tackles
20 Solo
7 TFL (26%)
10 QB hits
4 Sacks

Enagbare last 11 contests
41% Snaps (452 total)
16 combined
12 Solo
4 TFL (25%)
5 QB hits
1 Sack

A starting Edge in SNAPS this season for GB is typically in that 55%-65% area. So you can basically double LVN production and round down a hair. A seasonal pace would be as follows (approximately using
60-65% usage)
50-54 combined Tackles (A- grade)
35-40 Solo (A grade)
12-14 TFL (A- grade
18-20 QB hits (A- grade)
7-8 Sacks (B+ grade)
You need to compare Van Ness to other pass rushers picked in the first 15 picks or even just the first round.
Much of what you said was accurate. However I disagree with this part. By comparison I’ll use a solid rotational player in Enagbare.

Van Ness last 11 contests
33% Snaps (365 total)
27 combined Tackles
20 Solo
7 TFL (26%)
10 QB hits
4 Sacks

Enagbare last 11 contests
41% Snaps (452 total)
16 combined
12 Solo
4 TFL (25%)
5 QB hits
1 Sack

A starting Edge in SNAPS this season for GB is typically in that 55%-65% area. So you can basically double LVN production and round down a hair. A seasonal pace would be as follows (approximately using
60-65% usage)
50-54 combined Tackles (A- grade)
35-40 Solo (A grade)
12-14 TFL (A- grade
18-20 QB hits (A- grade)
7-8 Sacks (B+ grade)
Compared to other first round pass rushers, Van Ness's rookie season is underwhelming. He was so raw, that his snaps were limited which is disconcerting. Other pass rushers like Daniel Hunter, Aiden Hutchinson, the Bosa Brothers, TJ Watt and Max Crosby to name a few had significantly more sacks as rookies. If Van Ness were a third round pick , I would be satisfied with 4 sacks which is as many as 6th round pick Carl Brooks. As a pick in the the top half of the first round, his rookie season isn't promising when you compare him to his peers. Let's hope he turns out more like Trey Hendrickson but for now, his rookie season should raise some red flags.
 

PikeBadger

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You need to compare Van Ness to other pass rushers picked in the first 15 picks or even just the first round.

Compared to other first round pass rushers, Van Ness's rookie season is underwhelming. He was so raw, that his snaps were limited which is disconcerting. Other pass rushers like Daniel Hunter, Aiden Hutchinson, the Bosa Brothers, TJ Watt and Max Crosby to name a few had significantly more sacks as rookies. If Van Ness were a third round pick , I would be satisfied with 4 sacks which is as many as 6th round pick Carl Brooks. As a pick in the the top half of the first round, his rookie season isn't promising when you compare him to his peers. Let's hope he turns out more like Trey Hendrickson but for now, his rookie season should raise some red flags.
Disagree. He wasn't drafted necessarily to be a starter this year but to get some playing time and become a future core player for this team hopefully. Your red flags should be tucked away. You've watched the way Packer management drafts for many years. Their philosophy is nothing new to people that are paying attention.
 

Dantés

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The Packers drafted a young, raw, uber-talented edge rusher to develop and people are upset that he's developmental? This is a surprise?
 
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tynimiller

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You need to compare Van Ness to other pass rushers picked in the first 15 picks or even just the first round.

Compared to other first round pass rushers, Van Ness's rookie season is underwhelming. He was so raw, that his snaps were limited which is disconcerting. Other pass rushers like Daniel Hunter, Aiden Hutchinson, the Bosa Brothers, TJ Watt and Max Crosby to name a few had significantly more sacks as rookies. If Van Ness were a third round pick , I would be satisfied with 4 sacks which is as many as 6th round pick Carl Brooks. As a pick in the the top half of the first round, his rookie season isn't promising when you compare him to his peers. Let's hope he turns out more like Trey Hendrickson but for now, his rookie season should raise some red flags.

You are aware of the fact he was drafted for his ceiling not his present floor by saying "he was so raw" yet then expect him to walk into the league similar to a #2 overall guy in Aidan Hutchinson?

However, I was curious so let's list out some stats from each of the guys mentioned and pulled some of the leading sack artists of this 2023 season and their rookie years BUT ALSO the first rounders from 2022 and 2021:


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You circle back to sacks, he's actually delivered (PFF stats) more sacks his rookie year than vast majority of first rounders since 2021...mainly just the ELITE rushers that went top 5 (Aidan, Kayvon, W Anderson) and even more than first overall Travon Walker.

Perspective has to always be taken into consideration as well....some/most of these guys didn't walk into an edge room at these teams with Rashan Gary (one of the best) and Preston Smith (Top what 30/40 in the league at worst)....and a second year player who played well his rookie year in Enagbare. Who if he was on list of note he had 465 snaps 255 Rush snaps 3 sackes 25 total pressures for 9.8% pressures per rush snaps.
 

Sanguine camper

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The Packers drafted a young, raw, uber-talented edge rusher to develop and people are upset that he's developmental? This is a surprise?
Draft and develop isn't working on the defensive side of the ball. Gute has too many guys that are drafted on potential but fail to live up to their draft status. Joe Barry is a problem but the draft philosophy on defense is broken.
 

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Draft and develop isn't working on the defensive side of the ball. Gute has too many guys that are drafted on potential but fail to live up to their draft status. Joe Barry is a problem but the draft philosophy on defense is broken.
Gary isn't working?
 

Dantés

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Draft and develop isn't working on the defensive side of the ball. Gute has too many guys that are drafted on potential but fail to live up to their draft status. Joe Barry is a problem but the draft philosophy on defense is broken.

When I think of guys who Gute has taken in the top 100 picks that I would call developmental (I.e. bets more on talent than skill/production in college), I come up with:

-Lukas Van Ness (1)
-Quay Walker (1)
-Rashan Gary (1)
-Oren Burks (3)

I don’t see that it’s really the problem.
 
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When I think of guys who Gute has taken in the top 100 picks that I would call developmental (I.e. bets more on talent than skill/production in college), I come up with:

-Lukas Van Ness (1)
-Quay Walker (1)
-Rashan Gary (1)
-Oren Burks (3)

I don’t see that it’s really the problem.
Yes. You could add Watson also.
 

Dantés

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You think Stokes was more college production than ceiling?

I didn’t see him as an unrefined lump of clay like those others. He was fairly ready to play a big role as a as a rookie. But if one wanted to include him, I wouldn’t balk.
 

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I'm ready to see an end to drafting Georgia players. I'd like to see more Iowa players on the roster. I've always liked the way they were coached in Iowa City. If they added one Hawkeye every year I'd be perfectly fine with that. They seem to add that high motor grittiness to a defense that I like.
 

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