I think the best we can get from the Saints now is #30 if they lose to the Rams. If a certain player drops to say 20 or 25 I'd be more than happy if they went up and got him. I'm sure it would take more than a 5th because those picks after round 4 are not really worth much value wise ( it would barely move us up from 32 to 30 according to the chart I looked at) but I think certain teams, and probably all teams depending on their boards and their needs, are less inclined to hold strictly to it if several players they like are still available. The advantage we have have is that Saints pick we trade away is still a first rounder and carries the 5th year option. Even if it is #32 it is much better than if we had the 1st pick in the 2nd round I think.
The 2019 Dantés Draft Thread
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I think the best we can get from the Saints now is #30 if they lose to the Rams. If a certain player drops to say 20 or 25 I'd be more than happy if they went up and got him. I'm sure it would take more than a 5th because those picks after round 4 are not really worth much value wise ( it would barely move us up from 32 to 30 according to the chart I looked at) but I think certain teams, and probably all teams depending on their boards and their needs, are less inclined to hold strictly to it if several players they like are still available. The advantage we have have is that Saints pick we trade away is still a first rounder and carries the 5th year option. Even if it is #32 it is much better than if we had the 1st pick in the 2nd round I think.
H
HardRightEdge
Guest
Oh, please. When the team is winning the chattering class sells you GOAT, attention to detail and demanding accountability. When the team is losing then the accountability becomes *****iness and selfishness. We see it as well in the annual early season "Brady's lost it" which becomes an annual "whoops".
Rodgers is not a god, he's a man, with imperfections, tremendous football skills and an outstanding football mind.
It was so interesting watching the Rams game this week for so many reasons, a relevancy with our new HC plucked from that coaching tree, and a new age offense that the "experts" say everybody wants to emulate. The play is called, the offense lines up. Players go to in motion. McVay reads the defense and he's chattering into the headset right up to the 15 second mark when the speaker shuts off. He's feeding Goff his read cues, where to look to throw, run or pass in the RPO. Goff is a robo-QB. He's being programmed, not developed.
You can like that if you want, but it ain't gonna fly here, and I think you're going to see that when push comes to shove its limits and brittleness will be exposed. They're going to have to keep front running because the pressure of a tight game in this kind of system against very good teams and coaches is going to show up.
You really don't have a choice anyway. Rodgers is going to be Rodgers. You can tweek this or that, add a little of this or that, take out a little of this or that, but in the end he's going to be demanding, and on the field he's going to be improvisational when the situation demands. He didn't suddenly need to become a hired arm. Get over it. And if you give him an O-line like the Rams, he'd light it up like in the "old days".
If you don't like what you've been looking at this season, then you should have been advocating for a trade before this contract was signed, because it's what Rodgers is and has been, once accounting for a declining roster and a gimped up knee.
H
HardRightEdge
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If you haven't figured it out by now from other posts, Fant did not win the Mackey award. Hockenson did. Not that it matters. College productivity is not the same as NFL projection. I question whether Fant should even be called a TE just as Jimmy Graham barely qualifies.
H
HardRightEdge
Guest
According the JJ chart, moving from 30 to 20 is 230 points, eqivalent to pick #72, so figure something equivalent to somewhere around the top of the 3rd. round, give or take. Moving up from 30 to 25 is 100 points, pick #100, top of the 4th. round, give or take.
This method of determining pick values in an information vacuum remains as good as any. In fact, when all information is in, trades still hue fairly closely to that chart. I took a look at trade values in the upper first round a couple of years ago and in the few cases where I noted significant straying from the chart (the trade ups for Julio Jones, Sammy Watkins and RGIII fall in this category if memory serves) involved their first round pick in the following season (or 2 seasons with RGIII).
It's understandable that a trade up involving future picks might cost more than the JJ chart would illustrate. First, there's the uncertainty of where that future pick or picks might land. Second, and more importantly in the "known knowns" equation, is the opportunity cost in discouting a future pick. A pick now is a bird in the hand to use immediately. That's worth more than a future bird in the bush. It doesn't do you much good to have a future pick if you're fired before you get there in a win now / what have you done for me lately situation among tenured GMs and coaches. New guys typically have a longer rope allowing them to look past the immediate year and snag future value if they are so inclined.
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gbgary
Cheesehead
yes but...
1) i've been lamenting the big-play over first-down mentality for at least 3-4 years. it kills your d because it's on the field too long. it's inefficient. this season it was particularly bad with the added missed throws and throw-aways. then there's a personal agenda against MM. yes he needed to go but the push from rodgers wasn't right.
2) as for the rams system...the total effect is successful execution. goff IS developing though. they're not at the line, with time to kill and coach, on every play. rodgers won't need much as he's far more experienced than goff. he'll recognize things right away. the key is him buying in. he's got to be open to it.
3) i said weeks ago i didn't think it mattered who they got because, as you accurately said, "rodgers is going to rodgers." i'm not sure he'll allow himself to change.
4) but i did...on several occasions. now the contract is done and dusted. future set. 8-8ish for the duration...unless rodgers changes and they get extremely lucky in the drafts ahead as the cap is going to continue to be an issue...especially after 2019.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
I watch next to no college football and I too looked at the youtube tapes. Other than the close/leap/tip play it's all tackling. Tackling is good. But there isn't any indication in those tapes, other than that one play, how he'd handle Job #1 of an NFL free safety that separates the good ones from the others: single high safety coverage ability. That's different than reading and reacting to what's in front of you in the box. From these tapes you'd say he's more strong safety than free.
I certainly wouldn't rule him out. But free agency comes first. There are potential veteran cuts that may be coming down. We don't know the needs yet. Then there's the Combine where we get a better look at NFL-level skills. There's a long way to go to the draft.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
8-8ish is an easy cop out with that draft caveat. This is an 8-8 roster, give or take, before the FAs depart and questionable vets get cut. And if Rodgers is going to be Rodgers, it still matters quite a bit who that GM or that coach is because the devil is in the details. I'm sure Rodgerw will adapt to things that work if they can be found, but I would not expect nor want him to change his character. He's the same guy he was in 2010, the same guy he was in 2014 when the D and ST p*ssed it away. Robo-QBs don't win. Gamers with talent and the supporting cast are the winners.
If there's an undue big play mentality that has set in it is because that's what happens when you field a sub-standard or unreliable defense that can't close out games. The 2014 sh*tting of the bed was particularly damaging. Had Capers been fired right then and there, as he should have been, the gradual slide might have been interrupted sooner. It's been "just outscore 'em" since. In the broad sweep of things, Rodgers has been trying to do what he had to, less effectively with less effective players. Adjustments will be made, but the character of the player can't be changed nor should you try. You don't take a thoroughbred and yoke him to a plow.
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Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I've only seen Deionte Thompson play in one game and that was his last game against Clemson. He looked terrible, but so did most of the Alabama defense that night. Probably won't cost him too much, but with only one year of starting under his belt and playing for a Powerhouse like Alabama, I still would be cautious about using the #12 pick on him. Plus, I would prefer going after a veteran at Safety in Free Agency and use the first rounder on the best EDGE player available. Maybe Safety in Rd. 2 or 3.
brandon2348
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Im not that high on Thompson. I am concerned about some of his lapses in coverage and ball skills. I see a re-do of Clinton-dix here. If there gonna draft a safety with one of there top picks I would much rather prefer johnathan Abram who actually reminds me of a young Earl Thomas. Abram has the skill set to develop into an NFL single high safety and has natural instincts which are hard to find.
Lol agreed it does occasionally become interesting to debate with those whom you usually agree. On another note, I have noticed recently that there are a couple posters here with whom I almost never agree with regardless of the topic lol.One of the more fun aspects of this forum is actually "butting heads" with someone you might normally agree with and to be able to do it in a respectful way. I think you and I have done that, as well as I have with Captain, Mondio, Swhitset and many others. Reaffirms that we aren't all just "yes people" and just agreeing to agree.When you finally get to the end of "agreeing to disagree" you still respect each other.
Reggie White Cheese
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I'm not saying I would and I'm not saying we should and I probably will get flak for this but what the hell... With no viable backup in waiting would you pick Kyler Murray at 32 (pending Saints pick) and groom him or at least have him as a Taysom Hill type and use him whever.
No, your investment at QB had been made. It’s time to live with that decision. QB isn’t going to be on the radar for anything other than developmental late round maybe for the next 2-3 years. Rodgers is pretty much untradeable Un- curable for the next 3-4 seasons. All focus should be on putting the best team around him until then. 2 years maybe we’ll re-visit this. But I don’t see anyway a qb is in the cards before the 5th round if at all for this team for 2 or 3 drafts
gbgary
Cheesehead
they'll be less than 8-8 with poor drafts and rodgers not changing/adapting. they can do much better if both occur. qb's must change/adapt as they get older and skills diminish. it's a shame they extended, him at the numbers they did, with those things happening to him.
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XPack
Cheesehead
or go after Foles.
My sincere hope is that the Patriots take him at #29 I guess I should say my sincere hope is that the Patriots have the 29th pick, I really couldn't care less who they take.
As far as Murray, would the baseball thing scare you at all. I know he declared and someone will draft him, likely in the first round but if he doesn't like the deal he can always pull the plug.
XPack
Cheesehead
Everytime I read about us releasing Hill, I get angry 
gbgary
Cheesehead
taysom hill? he wasn't released. he was plucked off the practice squad. he's a cool player to have. not sure mccarthy would have had the imagination to use him the way NO does.Everytime I read about us releasing Hill, I get angry
yooperpackfan
Cheesehead
I hear you, but to be honest, McCarthy and company didn't have the imagination to use him like New Orleans has.Everytime I read about us releasing Hill, I get angry
Don’t, it’s ok. You remember because he was a QB that changed positions. I know everyone is all excited because he got in again yesterday. Threw a nice pass, that even Hundley has made, and didn’t count. And he’s not good enough to be an actual back up QB. They traded for one of those.Everytime I read about us releasing Hill, I get angry
He ran a play we see RBs and WRs of all calibers run. And he took a direct snap that lets face it, a 4 th string fullback could have made that play on the fake punt. We recognize because he used to be a depth chart QB one preseason. 3rd string un drafted safety Raven Greene’s fake conversion was more impressive.
I have a feeling if the Saints were 5 deep into their depth at DB, there wouldn’t be a roster space for someone like Hill there either.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Actually, he was released and the Saints grabbed him, before the Packers could get him on the practice squad, if the rumors of them wanting to were correct. Now had the Packers wanted him back, they could have plucked him off the Saints PS, but they he would have been on the 53 and even Mondio wasn't ready for something like that at the time.
Mondio and I are going to be attending Taysom's Hall of Fame Induction someday and he is going to lean over and whisper to me "meh...a gold bust...the guy STILL isn't all that special". LOL
He is though in a way. He’s a great athlete. Never ever going to deny that. He can do a lot of different things. It is cool in a way. But people are completely unrealistic about what he is. And he’s on a roster that has room for someone like him. The Saints would not be running an offense thru him as their primary or 2nd runner, their 1st or 2nd QB or as a 4 or 5 WR or TE.Actually, he was released and the Saints grabbed him, before the Packers could get him on the practice squad, if the rumors of them wanting to were correct. Now had the Packers wanted him back, they could have plucked him off the Saints PS, but they he would have been on the 53 and even Mondio wasn't ready for something like that at the time.
Mondio and I are going to be attending Taysom's Hall of Fame Induction someday and he is going to lean over and whisper to me "meh...a gold bust...the guy STILL isn't all that special". LOL
As it stands, their roster isn’t really in need of developing way down on depth at this positions as they’ve stayed pretty healthy at the top and at most others. Like I said, if they were 5 deep into the depth chart in the defensive backfield, an UDFA safety probably would have taken that half yard plunge for the first down for them.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Did you mean, if that UDFA Safety was a Packer, playing for Mike McCarthy and Ron Zook?
I think the key ingredient you are missing here with Taysom Hill is not just his athleticism, but his intelligence. You are putting a guy into all sorts of different positions and situations that can actually grasp all of the nuances and concepts of what to do in each one. The Packers put a converted WR to RB at kick returner, asked him to simply down a ball in the endzone and not only didn't he, he fumbled it.
Ty made a lot more plays than that one very poor one. Hill isn’t asked to do a ton. Specific plays at specific times. He probably has less total responsibility in every single play he’s ever had than Ty had in just blocking schemes as RB for GB. Let alone account for run plays and passing game to the actual RB.
Favre>Rodgers259
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NO WAY does Murray fall out of the Top 15. Top 10 I'd say. I'm sure everyone who interviews him during the Combine will ask him about his commitment to football. But I'm not worried about it at all. No way would he go through the training for the Combine and a Pro Day just to flip to baseball.
This will actually help us, as he would be the consensus top QB. I expect some teams to manuever to get him. That would mean Murray, Haskins, and Jones/Lock gone by the time we're on the clock; if not all four. I think that guarantees us one out of Allen/Oliver/Williams/Polite. This also means perhaps a player like Thompson or another Safety with a 1st or 2nd Round grade is
Reggie White Cheese
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I would give our two firsts two move for Quiennen Williams.... (Maybe even toss Matthews to Oakland for the whole thing) he is and could be our Aaron Donald
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