The 2019 Dantés Draft Thread

[GleefulGary]

Here is one and there are many more. This guy is a tweener size wise. He played at Houston and was almost invisible in big games. Take into consideration his attitude issues which he put on display for the entire world to see and he has Bust written all over him.

Picking this guy at 12 would be all in one confirmation why the Packers are horrible drafting defense.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019EOliver.php

Interesting.

Even at 280 though, I'm fine with him. His functional strength is more important than his play weight, and he's got plenty of functional strength. Heck, the best defensive player in the NFL is an iDL that plays at no more than 285.

Oliver has shown up in big games. He may have an attitude issue. His coach did too. I'm not too worried about it. Most good NFL players have egos the size of the moon.

I think one of things missing in talks about Oliver is context. Oliver had an absolutely amazing freshman year. Then his DC left. New guy came in...somebody I'm quite familiar with as a Miami fan. Miami's old DC that was honestly, awful. His scheme taught DL to engage. Shooting gaps was bad to him. Penetration was bad to him. I saw a game against Wake Forest where they widened their OL sets out dramatically. Miami's DL widened with them rather than stay in the 2 yard gap between the OL!! Again, this guy taught to engage and play patty-cake. That had a significant impact on why Oliver looked the way he did the past two years compared to his first year.

But shoot man, this guy is squatting 650, cleaning 385, has a 36" vert...strength is not an issue with him.

 

[brandon2348]

He's said he's fine with using an offensive pick in any round.

I'll say it again, and again, and again, the arguments you're having in your head are not rooted in reality.

A little reading comprehension would do you some good.

He has made it very clear he wants to build some championship defense.

You on the other hand want to draft yet another db with our No.30 pick and are not against using our 12th pick on that particular player.

My reading is just fine thank you.

 

[GleefulGary]

I would imagine we take a RB on day 3 to supplement Jones/Williams.

Jones and Williams btw, combined for 1200 rushing yards and 400 receiving yards at 5.2 yards per touch. Very good combo.

Anyways, I wonder if James Williams from Wazzu isn't a decent option as a James White esque-back. More of a receiver than a runner, he has value to an offense. Not a very good runner though, which is a detraction of course.

 

[brandon2348]

I would imagine we take a RB on day 3 to supplement Jones/Williams.

Jones and Williams btw, combined for 1200 rushing yards and 400 receiving yards at 5.2 yards per touch. Very good combo.

Anyways, I wonder if James Williams from Wazzu isn't a decent option as a James White esque-back. More of a receiver than a runner, he has value to an offense. Not a very good runner though, which is a detraction of course.

I don't want anything to do with James Willams.

 

[GleefulGary]

He has made it very clear he wants to build some championship defense.

You on the other hand want to draft yet another db with our No.30 pick and are not against using our 12th pick on that particular player.

My reading is just fine thank you.

Yeah. I'm good with an offensive player or defensive player in pretty much any round and any pick. Almost like I'm open minded. Foreign concept to some people I guess.

And Adderley is the best deep safety in the draft. It's a big need for us. I don't see the issue with liking him. Just because a past GM whiffed on earlier picks does not mean we should avoid it entirely now.

 

[GleefulGary]

I don't want anything to do with James Willams.

That's fair.

His lack of being able to run the ball well is a big issue. I'm really just talking about a 7th round flier though.

 

[brandon2348]

Interesting.

Even at 280 though, I'm fine with him. His functional strength is more important than his play weight, and he's got plenty of functional strength. Heck, the best defensive player in the NFL is an iDL that plays at no more than 285.

Oliver has shown up in big games. He may have an attitude issue. His coach did too. I'm not too worried about it. Most good NFL players have egos the size of the moon.

I think one of things missing in talks about Oliver is context. Oliver had an absolutely amazing freshman year. Then his DC left. New guy came in...somebody I'm quite familiar with as a Miami fan. Miami's old DC that was honestly, awful. His scheme taught DL to engage. Shooting gaps was bad to him. Penetration was bad to him. I saw a game against Wake Forest where they widened their OL sets out dramatically. Miami's DL widened with them rather than stay in the 2 yard gap between the OL!! Again, this guy taught to engage and play patty-cake. That had a significant impact on why Oliver looked the way he did the past two years compared to his first year.

But shoot man, this guy is squatting 650, cleaning 385, has a 36" vert...strength is not an issue with him.

Unfortunately his college coaches deemed him effective in the 275 range which could work in the American Athletic Conference but probably not in the NFL.

This guy isn't Aaron Donald(who is 285) with Oliver being more a scheme specific situational player. Hardly worth the 12th pick in the draft

 

[GleefulGary]

Unfortunately his college coaches deemed him effective in the 275 range which could work in the American Athletic Conference but probably not in the NFL.

This guy isn't Aaron Donald(who is 285) with Oliver being more a scheme specific situational player. Hardly worth the 12th pick in the draft

I'll bet he weighs in at more than 275.

Again, his functional strength more than shows up on tape. I've seen his DC coach for years. He's a moron.

If Oliver doesn't fit your scheme, your scheme is bad.

But hey, if you think Parris friggin Campbell can get drafted at 12, then Ed Oliver sure as hell can.

 

[brandon2348]

I'll bet he weighs in at more than 275.

Again, his functional strength more than shows up on tape. I've seen his DC coach for years. He's a moron.

If Oliver doesn't fit your scheme, your scheme is bad.

But hey, if you think Parris friggin Campbell can get drafted at 12, then Ed Oliver sure as hell can.

Oliver has

Attitude Issues
Size Issues
Strength Issues
Scheme Issues

Actually your right. He would be the perfect fit for our defense.

 

[brandon2348]

I'll bet he weighs in at more than 275.

Again, his functional strength more than shows up on tape. I've seen his DC coach for years. He's a moron.

If Oliver doesn't fit your scheme, your scheme is bad.

But hey, if you think Parris friggin Campbell can get drafted at 12, then Ed Oliver sure as hell can.

I'm sure he can weigh in at 285 too. The question is can he be effective in the NFL at 285.

 

[Dantés]

I'm sure he can weigh in at 285 too. The question is can he be effective in the NFL at 285.

Yes, he can. But you have to put him in a position to succeed.

I am not saying he will reach the heights of Aaron Donald, but they're obviously similar players stylistically. The Rams ask Donald to get upfield and wreak havoc. He is not there to eat blocks or stalemate blockers. Sometimes he gets crushed. The Rams are more than happy to live with that and let him create tons of disruption.

That is the role that Oliver can be successful in. If he's legitimately over 280 lbs and not taller than 6'3", I don't see an issue with the projection.

 

[GleefulGary]

Oliver has

Attitude Issues
Size Issues
Strength Issues
Scheme Issues

Actually your right. He would be the perfect fit for our defense.

I don't see the strength issues at all. I would like to ask you to find it on tape.

I don't see any large attitude issues.

Scheme? Yeah, don't ask him to two-gap. That's not what you're drafting him for. Otherwise what scheme issue?

Size? Maybe. He certainly shows up on tape. I'm not worried about.

 

[GleefulGary]

2/3 of my top 3 picked are offensive guys but all I care about is getting defensive guys on the Packers.

Outstanding logic and reasoning skills in this place sometimes.

 

[brandon2348]

Yes, he can. But you have to put him in a position to succeed.

I am not saying he will reach the heights of Aaron Donald, but they're obviously similar players stylistically. The Rams ask Donald to get upfield and wreak havoc. He is not there to eat blocks or stalemate blockers. Sometimes he gets crushed. The Rams are more than happy to live with that and let him create tons of disruption.

That is the role that Oliver can be successful in. If he's legitimately over 280 lbs and not taller than 6'3", I don't see an issue with the projection.

As I've said he could be effective in a "scheme specific" type situation with bigger edge guys that wreak havoc that allow him to do some damage. This guy is the finishing piece in a certain situation.

The Packers don't have those players on the edge and Oliver would get swallowed up so it's a Fairy Tale as far as I'm concerned.

 

[GleefulGary]

Sidenote: Technically, almost every player in the NFL has scheme issues.

You don't ask Aaron Donald to two-gap and take on blockers.

You don't ask Tom Brady to run PA bootlegs and attack the deep-middle of the field all game long.

Look at how Revis Island ended when he got placed in a zone scheme, and then when he got to play more man he was good again.

Play guys where they win. If a guy can penetrate, let him. If he can play zone, don't play him in man. Play guys where they win. That's what Belichick is so good at. He capitalizes on his players strengths more than anybody else.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

He's said he's fine with using an offensive pick in any round.

I'll say it again, and again, and again, the arguments you're having in your head are not rooted in reality.

A little reading comprehension would do you some good.

Lol at this point I'm just poking the bear. He self-destructs every time we go against his picks. But Lindstrom is on my board, but I'll go right by him if certain position groups are thinning out and I think we should pull the trigger before the cupboard goes bare.

He has made it very clear he wants to build some championship defense.

You on the other hand want to draft yet another db with our No.30 pick and are not against using our 12th pick on that particular player.

My reading is just fine thank you.

I would like a Championship Defense, I'd like a Championship Offense as well. However, the talent in this Draft leans towards defense in the top rounds. The offense can still be addressed in the 2nd-7th Rounds. My next mock actually addresses offense in the 2nd Round, but I may try to fine-tune it one more time. I hope you tune in.

 

[Dantés]

As I've said he could be effective in a "scheme specific" type situation with bigger edge guys that wreak havoc that allow him to do some damage. This guy is the finishing piece in a certain situation.

The Packers don't have those players on the edge and Oliver would get shallowed up so it's a Fairy Tale as far as I'm concerned.

This is demonstrably untrue. There are plenty of players in that style who have thrived without serious threats on the edge. Aaron Donald would obviously be a primary example. Gerald McCoy comes to mind. Grady Jarrett as well.

What's important is that you have one or more additional interior defensive linemen who can handle some heavy lifting, which the Packers do.

 

[GleefulGary]

This is demonstrably untrue. There are plenty of players in that style who have thrived without serious threats on the edge. Aaron Donald would obviously be a primary example. Gerald McCoy comes to mind. Grady Jarrett as well.

What's important is that you have one or more additional interior defensive linemen who can handle some heavy lifting, which the Packers do.

Exactly. You can't have two guys that only penetrate, or only two-gap.

A line with Oliver, Clark, Daniels would be pretty dang good.

Oliver won't be there at 12, so it's a moot point.

 

[GleefulGary]

Gerald Willis is a very good 2nd day prospect on the iDL as well.

 

[Dantés]

Exactly. You can't have two guys that only penetrate, or only two-gap.

A line with Oliver, Clark, Daniels would be pretty dang good.

Oliver won't be there at 12, so it's a moot point.

Plus, look at the history of success on the defensive fronts of Pettine defenses. He was often without edge talent.

 

[brandon2348]

This is demonstrably untrue. There are plenty of players in that style who have thrived without serious threats on the edge. Aaron Donald would obviously be a primary example. Gerald McCoy comes to mind. Grady Jarrett as well.

What's important is that you have one or more additional interior defensive linemen who can handle some heavy lifting, which the Packers do.

He isnt Aaron Donald.

 

[GleefulGary]

He isnt Aaron Donald.

But he's a similar styled player which is the point.

 

[Dantés]

He isnt Aaron Donald.

I gave you multiple examples.

 

[brandon2348]

I gave you multiple examples.

You've given me multiple fairytales.

We need to stay far away from this guy. He is 6'1 and plays best light which isn't gonna fly in the NFL.

Christian Wilkins has much more versatility and is a clear better choice.

 

[Dantés]

You've given me multiple fairytales.

We need to stay far away from this guy. He is 6'1 and plays best light which isn't gonna fly in the NFL.

Christian Wilkins has much more versatility and is a clear better choice.

I have not studied Wilkins yet. I'll get around to it. Maybe I'll like him better?

I've responded to your objections with actual points and examples. Saying "fair tales" back to me is stupid and childish. This is why I've consistently said that you don't know how to handle basic disagreement on prospects.

I really don't care, however sometimes you cast yourself as a martyr for getting criticized so I'm just heading that off.