Ted Thompson Era Should Be Over

[7thFloorRA]

THIS:
is what TT should really be working on figuring out the cause of and eliminating. We'll never be able to fairly evaluate team, players, or coaching effectiveness if every Sunday we line up with the 46 healthiest players as opposed to the 2-3 best players at each position on the team.

The ******* blew it out playing pickup basketball in the offseason. IIRC he tried to keep it quiet and then completely blew it out in OTA's and then kept re-injuring it during the remainder of his tenure with the Pack. I absolutely think there is a connection between Lovat's conditioning program and the hamstring injuries....but this one happened away from the team.

 

[Poppa San]

I feel like Ted Thompson is really good at rebuilding, but not so much at maintaining success. The Packers win because they have the best player in football at the helm. To be like TT is not a bad thing, it is just that his strength don't match what Green Bay needs right now.

But out of curiosity, if TT leaves/is fired (just pure speculation) who would you like to see Green Bay hire as the next general manager?

Have you read this entire thread? The answer to your last question lies therein.

 

[sdh09e44]

How do you figure? The Packers have been one of the best teams in the league at maintaining success (in terms of wins) since he took over. They're 4th in regular season wins. They've only been under .500 twice in 12 seasons. They've been in the double digits in wins 8 times. They've made the playoffs 9 times. They have a winning record in the playoffs. Is that not maintaining success?

I'm gonna go ahead and rephrase it for him. Yes, the team has maintained success, but I think he was trying to say TT isn't doing a good job at getting this team over the hump and building on the success of a previous year.

For example, the team basically made the Superbowl in 2014, and probably would've been in a great position to beat the Patriots. The pass defense was 6th in yards per game, the run was in the 20s , and the D was around 15 in points against per game. It was an average to above average defense that got lifted because of how well the offense was in both phases. It sucks to say it but the Packers probably missed their turn in 2014. Rodgers' MVP level play almost won it for us and the defense was solid, just needed a little more talent out there on that side of the ball and TT has done a poor job of addressing that.

He chose to let House and Tramon depart to bring in Randall and Rollins and the pass defense didn't miss a beat. Great stuff. But the Run defense didn't improve at all, went from 119.1 ypg to 119.9. We basically had identical defenses in 2014 and 2015, when ideally it should've taken a step forward.

Maybe instead of trading out 2 vet CBs for 2 rookie CBs, you keep one of the vet CBs that were part of a solid pass defense in 2014, and go ahead and draft an ILB like ERIC KENDRICKS ( a bunch of us were high on him and we desperately needed an ILB after losing Hawk and Brad Jones) or beef up the Defensive line. Now you put the run defense in a position to improve while most likely maintaining the pass defense. And you can probably still grab Randall in the second round anyway. So it would've been Shields Hayward House or Tramon Randall Gunter, and whatever 1st round talent to plug into the run defense that was bottom of the league.

Plugging in 2 rookies to replace Tramon and House wasn't a bad decision, it just maybe wasn't 100% necessary if you would've kept one of the vets and then went on and addressed ILB that was a huge hole. Pass D was fine and maybe didn't need all of that shuffling around.
Similar thing last offseason too, we lose Raji and I believe he should've signed a mid level DL to replace him instead of investing the 1st round pick into that area. Then once again, that lets you draft another position of bigger need.

 

[rmontro]

I've been listening to the Titletown Sound Off podcast, and they were wondering why Eliot Wolf hasn't been hired by another team if he is such a hot young prospect? Does that indicate maybe he's not the best choice to succeed Ted after all? They decided that perhaps what was keeping him from getting hired was his association with Ted Thompson.

Ted's methods have been both the boon and the curse of this franchise. He's obviously talented at what he does. But by the same token, his stubbornness in looking at the long term has held the team back from taking the next step. Maybe other teams see him as many fans see him - as one of the reasons Aaron Rodgers has only been in one Super Bowl. He's been unable to put together a good defensive unit despite years and years of drafting heavily for that side of the ball.

 

[sdh09e44]

I've been listening to the Titletown Sound Off podcast, and they were wondering why Eliot Wolf hasn't been hired by another team if he is such a hot young prospect? Does that indicate maybe he's not the best choice to succeed Ted after all? They decided that perhaps what was keeping him from getting hired was his association with Ted Thompson.

Ted's methods have been both the boon and the curse of this franchise. He's obviously talented at what he does. But by the same token, his stubbornness in looking at the long term has held the team back from taking the next step. Maybe other teams see him as many fans see him - as one of the reasons Aaron Rodgers has only been in one Super Bowl. He's been unable to put together a good defensive unit despite years and years of drafting heavily for that side of the ball.

I don't think it's crazy to think that Wolf will be a lot like TT after all of these years being around him. I also don't think its crazy to think Wolf is opting to stay in Green Bay and patiently waiting til he gets the keys to the castle.

 

[rmontro]

I don't think it's crazy to think that Wolf will be a lot like TT after all of these years being around him. I also don't think its crazy to think Wolf is opting to stay in Green Bay and patiently waiting til he gets the keys to the castle.

I agree, but the fact is he's interviewed for a couple of positions, and he hasn't been offered a job. The question was why, if he is such a hot property.

We don't know much about Wolf, but I think the hope is that he retains the best qualities of Ted, while maybe being just a little more free with the purse strings. Just a little.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

THIS:
is what TT should really be working on figuring out the cause of and eliminating. We'll never be able to fairly evaluate team, players, or coaching effectiveness if every Sunday we line up with the 46 healthiest players as opposed to the 2-3 best players at each position on the team.

I thonk a lot of posters get the impression the Packers are the most injured team in the league because they don't follow other clubs that closely.

I feel like Ted Thompson is really good at rebuilding, but not so much at maintaining success. The Packers win because they have the best player in football at the helm. To be like TT is not a bad thing, it is just that his strength don't match what Green Bay needs right now.

Thompson is excellent at maintaining success as the Packers have made the playoffs eight consecutive seasons. He fails to get the team over the hump though by mostly ignoring two of three available ways to upgrade the roster.

I don't think it's crazy to think that Wolf will be a lot like TT after all of these years being around him.

I highly doubt Wolf would be as reluctant as Thompson to using free agency and trades to improve the team.

I agree, but the fact is he's interviewed for a couple of positions, and he hasn't been offered a job. The question was why, if he is such a hot property.

Wolf interviewed for two general manager positions with the Niners and Colts this offseason but pulled out of the running in San Francisco. Indianapolis not hiring him doesn't mean he isn't a hot property around the league.

 

[Dantés]

I'm gonna go ahead and rephrase it for him. Yes, the team has maintained success, but I think he was trying to say TT isn't doing a good job at getting this team over the hump and building on the success of a previous year.

For example, the team basically made the Superbowl in 2014, and probably would've been in a great position to beat the Patriots. The pass defense was 6th in yards per game, the run was in the 20s , and the D was around 15 in points against per game. It was an average to above average defense that got lifted because of how well the offense was in both phases. It sucks to say it but the Packers probably missed their turn in 2014. Rodgers' MVP level play almost won it for us and the defense was solid, just needed a little more talent out there on that side of the ball and TT has done a poor job of addressing that.

He chose to let House and Tramon depart to bring in Randall and Rollins and the pass defense didn't miss a beat. Great stuff. But the Run defense didn't improve at all, went from 119.1 ypg to 119.9. We basically had identical defenses in 2014 and 2015, when ideally it should've taken a step forward.

Maybe instead of trading out 2 vet CBs for 2 rookie CBs, you keep one of the vet CBs that were part of a solid pass defense in 2014, and go ahead and draft an ILB like ERIC KENDRICKS ( a bunch of us were high on him and we desperately needed an ILB after losing Hawk and Brad Jones) or beef up the Defensive line. Now you put the run defense in a position to improve while most likely maintaining the pass defense. And you can probably still grab Randall in the second round anyway. So it would've been Shields Hayward House or Tramon Randall Gunter, and whatever 1st round talent to plug into the run defense that was bottom of the league.

Plugging in 2 rookies to replace Tramon and House wasn't a bad decision, it just maybe wasn't 100% necessary if you would've kept one of the vets and then went on and addressed ILB that was a huge hole. Pass D was fine and maybe didn't need all of that shuffling around.
Similar thing last offseason too, we lose Raji and I believe he should've signed a mid level DL to replace him instead of investing the 1st round pick into that area. Then once again, that lets you draft another position of bigger need.

That makes sense, and I too take issue with Thompson's refusal to use FA more. If that's what he meant, that's fine. I just read "maintain" as maintain.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I agree, but the fact is he's interviewed for a couple of positions, and he hasn't been offered a job. The question was why, if he is such a hot property.

We don't know much about Wolf, but I think the hope is that he retains the best qualities of Ted, while maybe being just a little more free with the purse strings. Just a little.

Wolfe himself coulda come out of those interviews not liking what he saw in SF or Indy.

 

[Mondio]

It's easy to see why one would NOT want either of those positions. one had an owner that already hired the HC and the other had a coach that told the owner it's the GM or me and they fired the GM. Not a situation I want to walk into at all. What power do they really have? the owner will just make the decisions anyway.

 

[Dantés]

Didn't the Packers candidates pull out of the candidacy in SF? I didn't think either were passed over. And the way I read the situation, Wolf signed an extension in GB with the insinuation that he's the heir apparent.

 

[Adrien]

I thonk a lot of posters get the impression the Packers are the most injured team in the league because they don't follow other clubs that closely.



Thompson is excellent at maintaining success as the Packers have made the playoffs eight consecutive seasons. He fails to get the team over the hump though by mostly ignoring two of three available ways to upgrade the roster.

Your answer proves that he is not best suited to maintain success because he fails to make the necessary adjustments to keep the Pack on top. Look at what happened in 2013 when Aaron Rodgers went down - 2-5-1 - including a win when the Cowboys choked a 23-point half-time lead. The Packers win because we have Aaron Rodgers. TT is not a bad GM, but his expertise is building through the draft, and turning a culture (he would be great in Cleveland, Philly, SF), but in GB we need someone who can rightly sign and price free agents to keep us on top. Look at BB in NE (signing Blount, Chris Long, James White, Deion Lewis) but still gets Malcolm Butler as an undrafted player.

I highly doubt Wolf would be as reluctant as Thompson to using free agency and trades to improve the team.



Wolf interviewed for two general manager positions with the Niners and Colts this offseason but pulled out of the running in San Francisco. Indianapolis not hiring him doesn't mean he isn't a hot property around the league.

 

[Dantés]

I highly doubt Wolf would be as reluctant as Thompson to using free agency and trades to improve the team.

One thing to consider in respect to this is that Wolf came up in the organization as a pro scout, not a college scout. I'm sure he has done a ton of scouting of prospects, and of course now he is heavily involved on both sides, but that background could easily lend itself to a mindset that's more willing to use free agency. I'm sure the Packers will always be a team that emphasizes the draft, and I think that's the way to go, but Wolf could help bring them some more balance. Of course, I think we all hope that TT will do that himself now that Rodgers is nearing the latter part of his career.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One thing to consider in respect to this is that Wolf came up in the organization as a pro scout, not a college scout. I'm sure he has done a ton of scouting of prospects, and of course now he is heavily involved on both sides, but that background could easily lend itself to a mindset that's more willing to use free agency. I'm sure the Packers will always be a team that emphasizes the draft, and I think that's the way to go, but Wolf could help bring them some more balance. Of course, I think we all hope that TT will do that himself now that Rodgers is nearing the latter part of his career.

Agreed. I think if and when Wolf (or anyone) takes over the GM spot, they will have heard all of the criticism laid on TT for not being more active in the FA market and possibly because of that, their first big move might just be becoming active in FA signings.

I can't really criticize what TT did last year in the FA market, he at least got Cook, which at the time was a huge need. I would have preferred him signing Forte over Starks, but that wasn't a big deal at the time. Nobody predicted Shields being lost for the season and everyone behind him playing poorly. However, if this year he sits on his hands and waits for the draft to address the CB and OLB positions, my expectations for 2017 will drop.

 

[brandon2348]

I can't really criticize what TT did last year in the FA market, he at least got Cook, which at the time was a huge need. I would have preferred him signing Forte over Starks, but that wasn't a big.

I think the criticism comes where it was so early in the season where what was thought a strength became a glaring deficiency at CB and nothing was really done but playing guys that didnt have much of a chance.

The Cook signing was great and more of those type of signings need to be made. 1 year deals where you get a pretty good player from a bad system with little risk and a high reward.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the criticism comes where it was so early in the season where what was thought a strength became a glaring deficiency at CB and nothing was really done but playing guys that didnt have much of a chance.

The Cook signing was great and more of those type of signings need to be made. 1 year deals where you get a pretty good player from a bad system with little risk and a high reward.

Yup, I was one of those voicing those concerns. My previous post was concerning what TT did in Free Agency last year. No doubt in my mind that TT is too averse at using methods other than draft and develop to build a team as well as plug holes when the situation calls for it.

 

[brandon2348]

Yup, I was one of those voicing those concerns. My previous post was concerning what TT did in Free Agency last year. No doubt in my mind that TT is too averse at using methods other than draft and develop to build a team as well as plug holes when the situation calls for it.

He is doing well bringing in young UDFA's and missing the mark pretty much everywhere else.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He is doing well bringing in young UDFA's and missing the mark pretty much everywhere else.

Allison was the only UDFA that I can think of that did much last year. While its great to find one on occasion, completing your roster with too many of them in my mind exposes you to too much inexperience once injuries start adding up.

 

[sdh09e44]

Allison was the only UDFA that I can think of that did much last year. While its great to find one on occasion, completing your roster with too many of them in my mind exposes you to too much inexperience once injuries start adding up.

I think Kentrell Brice might turn into something. I remember some hard hits, especially that one on Cole Beasley. Also saw a 40 low of his was 4.37, that's legit.

Also hope Allison bulks up a little bit, he can definitely turn into something nice if he does that.

 

[Dantés]

I think Kentrell Brice might turn into something. I remember some hard hits, especially that one on Cole Beasley. Also saw a 40 low of his was 4.37, that's legit.

Also hope Allison bulks up a little bit, he can definitely turn into something nice if he does that.

I'm pretty sure those "lows" on sites like nfldraftscout are just guesses or hearsay. But his actual 40 at this pro day was 4.44, which is great.

 

[brandon2348]

Thomas was UDFA. Pennel was promising and gotta think he really screwed up to be let go. Jets signed him. I think they got something with Brice as well. Gunter is a decent back up and played better then our first and second round draft picks. I still havent given up on Hawkins as a developmental type guy.

If you can hit on maybe 2 or one a year your killing it there on UDFA's. This is the area where I see TT having some success still.

If you added drafting a little better and getting more involved in free agency stocking the shelves with talent along with making a few key moves here and everyone would probably all be celebrating a Super Bowl championship right now.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

It's easy to see why one would NOT want either of those positions. one had an owner that already hired the HC and the other had a coach that told the owner it's the GM or me and they fired the GM. Not a situation I want to walk into at all. What power do they really have? the owner will just make the decisions anyway.

Didn't the Packers candidates pull out of the candidacy in SF? I didn't think either were passed over. And the way I read the situation, Wolf signed an extension in GB with the insinuation that he's the heir apparent.

Yes and Yes, and to be fair I'm betting pretty soon nobody wants to go there after this

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/san...rent-baalke-head-coach-search-worst-woner-nfl

 

[Half Empty]

Thomas was UDFA. Pennel was promising and gotta think he really screwed up to be let go. Jets signed him. I think they got something with Brice as well. Gunter is a decent back up and played better then our first and second round draft picks. I still havent given up on Hawkins as a developmental type guy.

If you can hit on maybe 2 or one a year your killing it there on UDFA's. This is the area where I see TT having some success still.

If you added drafting a little better and getting more involved in free agency stocking the shelves with talent along with making a few key moves here and everyone would probably all be celebrating a Super Bowl championship right now.

It's all relative and subjective, but start with http://www.packers.com/team/howbuilt.html Note the number of free agents on the 2016 team from previous years. Then look at your evaluations - Thomas actually wasn't an UDFA since the Packers first cut him, then got him back from the Cowboys' PS, ala Tramon Williams. Pennel 'was' promising, but isn't. You think they got something in Brice, but how can anyone tell at this stage? You figure Gunter is at least a decent backup (faint praise), while many here would contend he's part of the the DB debacle this year. Hawkins, even by your evaluation, may not even be here next year. Remember when Elliot was the next great pass-rusher? Not being snarky, but Shields is TT's only real 'hit' on that level, and just using the numbers (team turnover and amount of draft choices) there HAVE to be a lot of UDFAs on the team each year. As I said, compare that laundry list of 2016 with the very few left from before that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Didn't the Packers candidates pull out of the candidacy in SF? I didn't think either were passed over. And the way I read the situation, Wolf signed an extension in GB with the insinuation that he's the heir apparent.

Murphy insisted after the season that he has a plan as to who will take over for Thompson but hasn't appointed the GM's successor by any means.

He is doing well bringing in young UDFA's and missing the mark pretty much everywhere else.

Actually comparing Thompson's success in undrafted free agency he isn't doing a better job than the NFL average. Shields was his only true hit in that department.

 

[PackerDNA]

Murphy insisted after the season that he has a plan as to who will take over for Thompson but hasn't appointed the GM's successor by any means.



Actually comparing Thompson's success in undrafted free agency he isn't doing a better job than the NFL average. Shields was his only true hit in that department.

Didn't Murphy say recently something to the effect of he didn't have someone in mind? Either he has a plan or he doesn't ; more and more this guy sounds to me like he doesn't know wtf is going on and doesn't care to know.