Studs and Duds: Pack in Steeltown

[DoURant]

Rashan Gary did Aaron Rodgers belt celebration on his first sack last night... lol

 

[mradtke66]

cut Jenkins and let Rasheed get bank elsewhere and assume Morgan, Tom, Belton and Kinnard will solve two tackle spots between them. Rhyan to center like he’s done some or if Monk is there Rhyan is there our swing guy that is crucial insurance and you only do two year deal to coincide with when others come up.

This is more or less how I see it. I suspect the FO is hoping something like is how it does work out or at least what their vague plan before Walker proved to be (at worst) a capable starter.

The hardest thing with Doubs is he is not a WR1 but a damn good WR2 type guy that flourishes with Jordan.

Yup. The problem it we likely under-value him or one team over-values him, not unlike MVS.

 

[longtimefan]

Rashan Gary did Aaron Rodgers belt celebration on his first sack last night... lol

Missed it

 

[milani]

Something told me he wouldn’t miss a beat. We’ve really missed his physical presence. His 6’4 size with high pointing ability and above average blocking is difficult to replicate when he’s out.
imo What this really does to opponents going forward, is created mismatches with other Receivers. He’s going to demand attention from many CB1’s. Doubs, Golden, Heath, Wicks, Williams will see lesser intensity/quality matchups.

What impressed me is that this team did not show the makings of a team that very young and inexperienced. It was Pittsburgh that committed the 2 stupid dead ball fouls. Not us. The last 2 weeks they showed amazing resilience by coming back on the road in the second half. They did not fold, did not choke, and were not intimidated by the HOFER nor his All Pro pass rusher. They played well under pressure. Even Watson focused on catching the football rather than trying to leap over tall buildings.

 

[Pugger]

Duds:
McManus
Jacobs, aside from the TD

Studs:
Love
Valentine
Coop
Micah
Gary
Watson

Superstud:

KRAFT!

Jacobs was a dud?

 

[gopkrs]

Jacobs was a dud?

He had a very nice TD run

 

[Pugger]

I think it was bad officiating. There is another component to intentionally grounding that it has to be realistic chance of completion. There was no chance as he purposely threw it to the ground 1' away.

The exact wording for intentional grounding is that a passer, "facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."

Now that is what AI brought up but I was hoping to read the actual rule.

A little common sense needs to prevail here as nobody seeing that would think he was trying to complete that.

So I want to add:

Duds: the refs. Not just the intentional grounding thing but:

The offsides by the Packers. Pittsburgh can't complain too much because Parsons waited a moment to rush because he assumed an offsides penalty was coming. I dont know how you miss that. Clearly the line judge was doing something other than watch the line of scrimmage.

The other biggie is the illegal procedure by the OT for Pittsburgh. I wonder if the refs were thinking it was a TE going in motion? That is another what-were-you-looking-at!???!?! Moment by the refs.

After that 1 foot "pass" by Rodgers NBC showed a closeup of his face and you could tell he knew he got away with one.

 

[AmishMafia]

After that 1 foot "pass" by Rodgers NBC showed a closeup of his face and you could tell he knew he got away with one.

Yeah. I mean the RB is 5 feet away and you miss him by 4 feet. It should be relative. If a WR was 50 yards away and to avoid a sack you throw the ball in his direction but you miss him by 40 yards, that's going to be a penalty.

 

[rmontro]

What impressed me is that this team did not show the makings of a team that very young and inexperienced. It was Pittsburgh that committed the 2 stupid dead ball fouls.

That was a chippy game, they seemed to be on the verge of a brawl for much of the game. I guess that's what happens when both teams are trying to dominate physically. I don't follow the Steelers normally, but if they're as dirty as they appeared to be last night, I'm glad they're not in our division or conference so we don't have to see them that often.

 

[OldSchool101]

What impressed me is that this team did not show the makings of a team that very young and inexperienced. It was Pittsburgh that committed the 2 stupid dead ball fouls. Not us. The last 2 weeks they showed amazing resilience by coming back on the road in the second half. They did not fold, did not choke, and were not intimidated by the HOFER nor his All Pro pass rusher. They played well under pressure. Even Watson focused on catching the football rather than trying to leap over tall buildings.

I think we’re seeing the fruits of a young tree blossom. It’s highly likely we still get Reed back during regular season. We’re already at 6 Weeks since surgery and counting. In another 6 weeks (12 weeks) I expect he’ll either he practicing or playing. Imo Watson and Reed are 2 of our best 3 WR and 2 of our best 5 weapons (Krafts, Jacobs, Doubs, Reed, Watson). GB also has a strong and deep contingency of weapons behind them (Wilson, Wicks, Golden, Savion etc ). Were solid depth at QB, TE, WR, LB, DE, DT, Safety. The only arguable areas of concern are depth at CB or OL. We did just have a Practice Squad CB poached yesterday. Might not be a terrible idea to go get a cheap option at CB for veteran depth.

 

[Poppa San]

wish I could give each of them a good scotch and a premium cigar to calm down some

I wasn't there but I'll happily accept on their behalf

 

[tynimiller]

This is more or less how I see it. I suspect the FO is hoping something like is how it does work out or at least what their vague plan before Walker proved to be (at worst) a capable starter.



Yup. The problem it we likely under-value him or one team over-values him, not unlike MVS.

Far better WR than MVS and everyone knows I like me MVS

 

[BrokenArrow]

Jacobs was a dud?

I mean, he got stuffed for 0-2 yard gains multiple times and averaged 2.5 on 13 carries on a night when Wilson averaged 5.5. To me that's a dud.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Not sure what is going on with Jacobs. I'd point to the OL, but they were opening lanes for Wilson. I hope it's something Jacobs can overcome. He'll never take time off.,

Playin' hurt.

 

[mradtke66]

Far better WR than MVS and everyone knows I like me MVS

He is, but MVS has more value as that guy who can blow the lid off the defense. Doubs is a solid 2, but there’s not a thing to hang his hat on. Doesn’t have that speed. Doesn’t win off the line like Adams. He’s savvy and finds the holes to sit in, but that player isn’t rare.

This isn’t meant to be a knock, it’s trying to pull the magic number out of a hat. Who are his comparables? He’s pushed his yards per catch up—how much of that is him and much is it scheme? Or players getting hurt and getting force fed?

 

[JPPT1974]

Really having Micah Parsons has made a very huge difference and Jordan Love coming into his own.

 

[milani]

After that 1 foot "pass" by Rodgers NBC showed a closeup of his face and you could tell he knew he got away with one.

I guess it equalizes the missed offside on us.

 

[milani]

I think we’re seeing the fruits of a young tree blossom. It’s highly likely we still get Reed back during regular season. We’re already at 6 Weeks since surgery and counting. In another 6 weeks (12 weeks) I expect he’ll either he practicing or playing. Imo Watson and Reed are 2 of our best 3 WR and 2 of our best 5 weapons (Krafts, Jacobs, Doubs, Reed, Watson). GB also has a strong and deep contingency of weapons behind them (Wilson, Wicks, Golden, Savion etc ). Were solid depth at QB, TE, WR, LB, DE, DT, Safety. The only arguable areas of concern are depth at CB or OL. We did just have a Practice Squad CB poached yesterday. Might not be a terrible idea to go get a cheap option at CB for veteran depth.

The only way he may be activated in the postseason is if we had a number of receivers go down all at once.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think many are colored by his dumb penalties as a rookie.

He's grown into his role with Hafley. 3rd on the team in TFLs. 2nd on the team in passes defensed. Tied for 1st in solo tackles, 1st in assisted tackles (not that put a ton of weight on tackles--Mike and Will should lead the team in tackles.). He's been an excellent blitzer up the middle.

I also need to find the all-22 for this week. I seem to recall Quay carrying a TE on a seam route late in the 4 quarter and he broke up the pass. As long as my memory is accurate, that was a big time play. I doubt Blake Martinez could even be in position to make that play, let alone actually make it.

Thanks very much for these observations on Walker mradtke66, much appreciated.

I'd love it if Q could stay. He has improved his game this year and is now a well-rounded LB, and I expect he will get better.

I just don't see how they can afford to keep him. As Ty noted, they need to sign Doubs and Rasheed Walker, who I agree come just before Quay Walker. After paying Love and Parsons, cap will become an issue. Unfortunately, they won't be able to keep them all.

That said, R Walker may be a toss up. He will command a FA price greater than his worth. If the Packers don't pay that, and move Morgan to LT, then there's space for R Walker. I think. Not crazy about R Walker leaving, and I don't think Morgan would be as good.

Playin' hurt.

Yeah I think you're right BA. He doesn't have that quick juke, left or right, when he is confronted with an 8-man box. Even when the blocking isn't good, he'll usually break a few of those. Wilson played better with the same OL, so something ain't quite right with Jacobs.

 

[Half Empty]

Playin' hurt.

Then don't play him

 

[mradtke66]

I just don't see how they can afford to keep him. As Ty noted, they need to sign Doubs and Rasheed Walker, who I agree come just before Quay Walker. After paying Love and Parsons, cap will become an issue. Unfortunately, they won't be able to keep them all.

That's the rub to me. I don't think they need to sign those two first. I'm also not saying they need to sign any of the three.

While maybe right now, today, Doubs is the most valuable WR. My gut says he doesn't end the season that way. Of the players that are healthy, I predict that Watson and Golden are ahead of him by week 18. Not by cumulative stats--Doubs has too much of head start on them. Just look at the impact Watson had in one game. 21 yards per catch. 4 targets, 4 catches, 2 of them explosive. It's a question of not only cost, but how well could the roster could absorb his loss, and I think this team could.

R. Walker is same but different. He's not our best OL (I'd say Tom) and the roster might be able to absorb the loss. The team drafted the obvious successor and we have decent depth behind them. The rub is needing to potentially replace 2 or 2.5 starters if we let him go. I presume Jenkins is gone. If Walker goes, then we have to also backfill RG. I don't know if Morgan would be as good a LT as Walker, but he certainly isn't a solid runblocker at guard. I would want to move him if only to setup him up for success.

Q. Walker is probably the player we are least prepared to replace from within. McDuffy is athletically limited. Hooper seems to be 4th or 5th on depth chart depending on game planning or who gets hurt. Yes, we have Cooper, but nickel is the base defense. You need two solid players. Which one is the MIKE and which is the WILL is a silly distinction.

And then we have cost to think about.

Off the ball linebackers is significantly cheaper than T. The top 6 backers average between 15M and 21M per year. The top 20 (assuming I counted right) LTs all make over 20M per year. WR is similar to LT.

In short, Quay could stick because he's the best value per dollar and doesn't have his obvious replacement on the roster.

 

[El Guapo]

Then don't play him

What is Jacob's injury? The only thing that I recall was prior to the Arizona game, he strained his calf. He told the staff but said that he was a full go. I can't imagine that could be the reason for not playing well against Pittsburgh.

The reality is that, aside from that TD, he did not run well and the o-line wasn't opening big holes for him.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Duds:
McManus
Jacobs, aside from the TD

Studs:
Love
Valentine
Coop
Micah
Gary
Watson

Superstud:

KRAFT!

I'll give both Jacobs and McManus a pass because I suspect neither one is at 100%.

Valentine just looks like a better corner than Hobbs based on what I've seen so far. He's far from perfect, but he plays hard and puts himself in good position more often than not. Hobbs looks like he's afraid to get beat and seems to play soft.

Tucker Kraft is in the process of becoming one of the league's premier tight ends.

Micah got paid, but he looks hungry. He makes everyone on the defense look better.

Jordan Love seems to get better each week. I don't know what his ceiling is, but I don't think he's hit it yet. The Packers future looks bright with him at the helm.

And, somewhat quietly, Javon Bullard and Evan Williams are becoming two very reliable pieces on the defense. It's easy to overlook them, but their contributions week in and week out are invaluable.

Go Pack Go!

 

[El Guapo]

And, somewhat quietly, Javon Bullard and Evan Williams are becoming two very reliable pieces on the defense. It's easy to overlook them, but their contributions week in and week out are invaluable.

All great points. Bullard and Williams have struggled this year. Williams I think is having a bit of a sophomore slump, but certainly played better on Sunday night. Bullard has finally been showing why he was drafted. Both players have had their down moments this year but are hopefully starting to trend in the right direction.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That's the rub to me. I don't think they need to sign those two first. I'm also not saying they need to sign any of the three.

While maybe right now, today, Doubs is the most valuable WR. My gut says he doesn't end the season that way. Of the players that are healthy, I predict that Watson and Golden are ahead of him by week 18. Not by cumulative stats--Doubs has too much of head start on them. Just look at the impact Watson had in one game. 21 yards per catch. 4 targets, 4 catches, 2 of them explosive. It's a question of not only cost, but how well could the roster could absorb his loss, and I think this team could.

R. Walker is same but different. He's not our best OL (I'd say Tom) and the roster might be able to absorb the loss. The team drafted the obvious successor and we have decent depth behind them. The rub is needing to potentially replace 2 or 2.5 starters if we let him go. I presume Jenkins is gone. If Walker goes, then we have to also backfill RG. I don't know if Morgan would be as good a LT as Walker, but he certainly isn't a solid runblocker at guard. I would want to move him if only to setup him up for success.

Q. Walker is probably the player we are least prepared to replace from within. McDuffy is athletically limited. Hooper seems to be 4th or 5th on depth chart depending on game planning or who gets hurt. Yes, we have Cooper, but nickel is the base defense. You need two solid players. Which one is the MIKE and which is the WILL is a silly distinction.

And then we have cost to think about.

Off the ball linebackers is significantly cheaper than T. The top 6 backers average between 15M and 21M per year. The top 20 (assuming I counted right) LTs all make over 20M per year. WR is similar to LT.

In short, Quay could stick because he's the best value per dollar and doesn't have his obvious replacement on the roster.

That's a really great analysis mradtke66, thanks. Yeah there are a lotta ways to look at this, and they are all subjective.

I still think, and as of right now - subject to change - that Doubs certainly needs to be retained. But at what cost? I don't think anyone would rate him as a #1 WR, so his market value may be in the $15-$20 mil AAV area. Still seems like a lot given the other WRs and Kraft, and what Doubs offers. Reed will likely be back this season, and there's a good argument that he's the most valuable WR.

A lot can happen between now and the offseason. I'd like to see how Watson plays the rest of the way - and based on Sunday night, the dude is ready. I'm looking for at least one or two plays per game the rest of the season where Golden and Watson both run "go" routes in a high-single-safety defense. There is a home run or two or three in there.

IMO Golden is underutilized. He has the speed and the hands to be a #2 WR at some point. His height is a legitimate knock. There are just so many solid targets, it's hard to get targets to all the other guys not named Kraft or Doubs. So the WR situation will, I expect, remain fluid for the rest of the season.

I argue for keeping Rasheed Walker because of the importance of the blind-side OT, and I don't think Morgan can offer as much as Walker. Morgan may end up as a career backup at LT and RG. Nothing wrong with that. But we need to see him play. good games, consecutively. He's still iffy for a second year first round pick. Walker will be expensive in FA.

Back to the present. Even without Reed, the WR group and certainly Kraft have played well. Assuming targets get spread around, big decisions will have to wait until after the season.