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Some of you will not like this.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Raider Pride, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. de_real_deal

    de_real_deal Cheesehead

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    Hug
     
  2. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

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  3. agopackgo4

    agopackgo4 Cheesehead

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    I am a Brett Favre fan, he is my favorite athlete of all time, and my hero...But I think we do have to stick to the plan. There needs to be a solid plan going into training camp and into the season, and that is having Rodgers as our starter. And that is that. What exactly do you mean by adjusting a little? Because if you mean adjust by setting Rodgers back again, that is a pretty big adjustment. And look at it this way, if we keep putting Rodgers on the shelf we are going to wake up one season and he isn't going to be around. What would you rather have? Brett Favre for one, MAYBE two more years? Or Rodgers starting out what could possibily be a good carrerr for us? Which probably won't happen if Brett comes back, because Rodgers isn't going to wait around forever.
     
  4. dd80forever

    dd80forever Cheesehead

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    I don't care about about 2010 right now. A-Rod could possibly be a good QB, so could Flynn, Brohm, My oldest son, your future kid, me, and the guy down the road who keeps borrowing my tools. I'm not sure when A-Rod became the next Phenom. Let A-Rod leave if he can't handle it. In fact if he has a problem with Brett coming back, perhaps he should because he won't last long with that sense of entitlement.

    Brett gives this team the best chance to win RIGHT NOW, If A-Rod did I would want him starting. All I care about is NOW. It seems pretty clear cut to me. The fans want victories and the players want victories. Not some "feel sorry for me" soap opera crap. Step up A-Rod, beat out Brett, Brohm, Flynn, Me, My Oldest son, and that tool borrowing guy. Then you will have truly earned it. Until then, just hold that clipboard and smile.
     
  5. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    The voice of reason again.
     
  6. Tiger

    Tiger Cheesehead

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    i think some people are train tracked into trying to win the 2009 superbowl and seeing it as the be all and end all, this team is not regressing so the "Favre gives us the best chance to win NOW" argument is redundant IMO..i think id rather see the packers create a dynasty ( which TT can produce) and have continual success for a number of years to come.
     
  7. RainX

    RainX Cheesehead

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    Everyone sitting here clamoring for Favre's return better understand the consequences of letting him comeback after being "retired" for 4 months, because as I stated in the SI Peter King thread, anything short of a Super Bowl championship this season has made a comeback utterly pointless. Here's why I feel that way:

    1. Aaron Rodgers gets relegated back to backup QB once again after being told by his coaches and front office that he's "the guy" now for 4 months now. That's pretty psychologically crushing if you ask me. It's bad enough he would have had to fill some pretty big shoes had Favre truly retired and having Brohm breathing down his neck, but now the one thing he's wanted since being drafted in 2005 is suddenly unceremoniously taken from him just a few short weeks before training camp. Talk about being squarely kicked in the jewels by the organization. Sure, he'll probably take the high road and accept his fate and do what's best for the team, but you seriously increase the risk of him walking after the 2009 season after this, because these are instances that are not easily forgotten. You can say he's not worthy of leading the team in the future if he can't accept something of this magnitude, but you could also not blame him to request a trade if he can't QB the team this year or walk after his contract is up. That's 3 years of being in the league and 2+ years learning McCarthy's system that are essentially for nothing. Why did we even bother drafting him 3 years ago in the 1st round and groom him for this moment then?

    2. Aaron's development gets regressed by at least one more season. You can see over the past 3 training camps and the limited regular season sample Rodgers has played is that he has improved quite a bit since his rookie season. He's about as ready as a guy who has not started an NFL game could be. All he's heard the entire offseason from fans and the media is that he's injury prone and won't be a good NFL QB because of his pedigree and he's been itching to get on the field to prove all his naysayers wrong. That fire is essentially snuffed out now because #4 came back. Instead of 16 games of taking his developmental lumps, he gets 16 more games of being in #4's shadow holding a clipboard and the whole Favre speculation begins again next off-season and he'll have to go through another entire off-season of doubters and naysayers questioning his ability to play. I sure hope Brett leads this team to a Super Bowl championship, because I'd rather watch an 8-8/9-7 Packers team get blown out on the road in a Wild Card round lead by Rodgers then a 12-4 Packers team lead by Favre lose to the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game because Favre threw another errant pass trying to force a play in one final drive to beat Dallas on the road. The end result is essentially the same in falling short of the Super Bowl again. The difference is Rodgers has one year of development under his belt and we'll know a lot more of wether he's worth resigning and leading this team to an eventual Super Bowl. Is Favre done again after the '08 season? God only knows at this point if he comes back and the circle of drama probably begins again. There's nothing wrong with wanting to know if you have the guy who will be leading your team two years from now and there's hardly a guarantee Brett will be that QB. At least if Rodgers can get on the field, we can see what he's got and make decisions accordingly going forward. We can't do that with another season of #4 under center and Rodgers holding a clipboard on the sideline.

    What I don't understand from a lot of you is that you think it should just be okay for Brett to waltz right back into his starting job after 4 months of retirement just because he is Brett Favre. That's essentially the vibe I get from most posters anyways. There's no denying what he has meant to this town and football team since 1992, but the guy "retired" on March 6! He said he had nothing left in the tank and didn't want to go through the tediousness of the off-season program and OTAs again. If you aren't willing to be on board from the beginning of the league year on March 1 to the end of the regular season in December, what gives you the right to voluntarily "retire" for 4 months, and then weeks before training camp, just call the team up saying you want your job back after they've moved on and geared the playbook and team towards the guy who was groomed to be your successor? It's not that simple.

    I doubt you would've found very few Packer fans in February who didn't want Brett to come back in 2008. I sure did, even despite his errant pass in the NFC Championship game. But when a guy says he's done, things change. Favre was under no major durress to make that decision. Thomspon and McCarthy would've give him until mid-April to make up his mind if needed. Just because the GM doesn't fly down to your house in Mississippi again like he did in '06 doesn't mean he doesn't want you back. Is McCarthy's frequent phone calls not enough or something? I think it's pretty obvious the head coach represents the interests of the team, including the GM. I don't buy the whole "he was under durress from the front office to make a hasty decision" argument. Favre's waffling on his decision back in March is his own fault and no one elses. I respect the fact that it's never easy to walk away from something you've pretty much spent your whole life doing, but I also respect the fact that when you make a decision, you should have the ability to stick to it and fully understand the consequences of doing so if you decided to change your mind later on. Favre can't seem to understand this for some reason.

    In the end, I'm no Nostradamus. I, just like you, can't say Brett coming back after 4 months on the shelf puts this team in the Super Bowl this year. Players move on, teams get better and worse, and injuries happen. Is it possible Brett gives us the best chance? Arguably. But it's hard to deny things won't be different versus last year going into the season because Brett wasn't this teams QB from March 17 onwards like he was last season. You can sit here and argue the off-season training program, OTAs, and mini-camps don't matter, that's fine. You also cannot deny the fact that McCarthy has stressed many times on how important that time from when the first weights are lifted on March 17 to the final practice snap taken on June 19 are to the success of a teams season. Brett not only was voluntarily not there for any of that, but it was also understood that Rodgers would be Quarterbacking the team into training camp as the starter since he had retired. That's a pretty radical shift of direction to all of a sudden voluntarily change direction 3 weeks before camp starts and one that could potentially adversley affect the team this season not making them as successful out of the gate as they were last year. Some of you make it sound like it's just so simple for the team to pick up right where they left off with Brett, but I hate to break it to you, it's not. Could the team do so? Sure if it had to. But at what cost? It's hard to say at this point, but I personally don't think the effect would necessarily be positive going into a MNF game on September 8 against a Minnesota Vikings team whose gunning for the target on our back. It's pretty easy to forget how unprepared many of those Mike Sherman lead Packer squads were coming out of training camp. I think you're risking something similar to happen if Brett all of a sudden comes back and is annointed the starter once again. The team is probably good enough to rebound, but that fast start last season was pretty critical in finishing 13-3 and getting as far as they did. There is no guarantee we would have the same success with Brett all of a sudden taking the reigns.

    I aplogize for writing a book here, but I just wanted you to understand what a lot of us "Rodsters" are thinking is the best direction to take this team. We could be wrong, no doubt, but we're all diehard Packer fans in the end and want what is best for the team. It's fine if you feel Favre is the guy who can lead us to the promised land. I just hope some of you truly understand the potential ramifications of what's at stake if that's the direction the team goes in.
     
  8. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    I really don't care how many seasons Brett played or how many awesome plays he made. He isn't bigger than the Green Bay Packers. and by continually letting him do whatever it is he wants to do... you are making him just that .... bigger than the Packers.
     
  9. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Raider,

    I do know what you are saying here and the situation isnt good thats for sure.

    If Brett wants to play he should have thought it out more before he retired. But the bottom line here is, he didn't and it had to be the hardest decision he ever had to make. But he now has changed his mind, and if he didnt have a great season last year I would have said "stay retired", but he as a player would have also thought that and would stay retired. But he knows that he is still a value to this team, he had a great season last year, so he can still play at a high level and help his team mates win games. If he can still "win" which I think he can, he should come back and give it all he has. We do know with him as our QB he will play through the pain and hurt, I dont know if Rodgers would, again Rodgers hasnt had that much playing time so we dont know.

    The bottom line is, the arguing about this isnt going to change anything. What will happen WILL.
     
  10. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    thats the problem... he has already NOT given it his all by missing much of the offseason with the team. Aaron Rodgers IS giving his all by having 100% attendance and showing that he is with this team for the long haul and that he cares about his teammates . not sittin in MS while his teammates lift ridiculous amounts of weight so they can protect him.

    and for the record the only thing we do know about Rodgers is that he will play through pain. he played on a broken foot. a broken foot, thats something i dont even remember Favre doing.
     
  11. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    edit. my bad.
     
  12. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    dude... am i the only one in this world who isnt comparing Rodgers to Favre. ugh. jesus christ ... everything was going smooth with the transition away from the hardest thing this franchise has had to do in a long time and then bam.

    when i said thats something i dont remember Favre doing... that was meant as a compliment. Brett has done some amazing stuff as you've pointed out...
    so get off my ***.

    i am simply saying that every single thing that most people on this website say about Rodgers is wrong.
     
  13. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    I should have read more carefully before jumping the gun. I apologize. I thought you were comparing Favre's toughness to Rodgers', when obviously you were not. Not one of my better replies.
     
  14. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    I don't know about anyone else, but coming off last season I was stoked about the upcoming season, Favre or not, I was excited to have the season get here.

    This however has put a huge damper on my excitement and to be very honest, my excitement has turned to a flavor of disgust, one in which I now want the season to get here so this BS is behind us.

    To me, the way both Brett and the Front Office are handling this is embarrassing as hell. Somebody from one side or the other step up and end this ****.. please.

    Some say what is Ted suppose to do.. well it is quite simple, you either welcome Brett back and throw the chips that way, or you get your *** to MS and discuss what it is the Brett would like to do.. if you truly want to move on, then cut the cord and move on. And take whatever may come, come.

    Somehow you need to stop this media bleeding of the Packer franchise, and turn the arrow of attention to Brett and Brett alone. Publicly welcoming him back ends the speculation from this side, or cutting the cord does that as well.

    But sitting here doing nothing makes the franchise look like a bunch of fools.. or worse yet a franchise that is scared to make a choice. Put the attention on Brett as the wobbler.. not the way that it sits in the media now as the franchise is the party in indecision. Whether that is where it is or not, the preception is that the Packers aren't dealing with this situation.. and to be honest that is what I find embarrassing... grown men afraid to address the situation.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. NodakPaul

    NodakPaul Cheesehead

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    Amen to that. Sooner or later, Fav-re has to retire. Despite what many in GB think, he is not immortal. :wink: This was the absolutely best time for him to do that.

    1) Fav-re would go out at the top of his game. TD record, 13-3, one pass away from the superbowl.
    2) GB was poised to come through the transition as best as can be expected. First round QB learning the system for three years and entering the second to last year of his contract and the last year that any escalators were in place.

    There couldn't have been a better time to make the break. Now if/when Fav-re comes back, the chances of him repeating his success from last year are only about 50/50 IMHO, Rodgers will likely be gone, and the Packers will have no option at QB in 2009 if Fav-re decides to retire again.

    RainX was dead on in his earlier post. Anything less than a Superbowl win should be considered a failure given the future price the Packers would have to pay for his return.
     
  16. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    I think Thompson will resolve this soon. I think that Favre will most likely be traded. But who really knows.

    Its hard to blame Favre for wanting to play. What does NOT help matters however is his family coming out publicly saying stuff about Thompson. That isn't cool.

    But its also hard to critisize Thompson, as all he was trying to do was enjoy some vacation time. After the Packers win the Super Bowl, this will all be a thing of the past.
     
  17. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    i agree with your general sentiment... this sucks so hard core.

    but i still dont think Green Bay needs to do anything until Favre makes it known he wants back. Im not talking about rumors of papers being sent in or emails or faxes or freakin text messages.

    Im talking a down and out statement of intent. until that happens. Favre is retired because thats all the real info we have to go on. We can't expect our team to respond quickly to every rumor we hear. thats a PR game you don't wanna play.
     
  18. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Wait a second, if the reports are true about this comming to light a couple weeks ago with the discussion between Brett and MM.. then it is BS to let TT hide behind the "I'm on vacation" excuse.. the better part of the free world believed that there was a good chance of this happening.. so it is not like a course of action for this case to have been at the very least pondered.

    Don't get me wrong.. I am not only pointing the finger of blame at the FO.. there is a good share sitting at Brett as well.. but the whole thing makes this franchise look like a candyass operation.

    It is apparent that Brett is struggling with his future, even moreso now than in past years.. we have a solid plan B in place.. to me, it is time to end this game of cat and mouse as a franchise, either welcome him back publicly or publicly end his tenure with Green Bay via annoucing that they will trade him or release him outright..
     
  19. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    This 'couple weeks ago' thing is news to me, and I've been following things pretty closely. Link?

    What I heard is Favre texted Thompson saturday, said they'd talk later, and that Thompson is now back in Green Bay as of Tuesday. Did he contact Brett? Who knows. Someone get a sound byte from mama favre!
     
  20. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Oh I agree.. Brett should just end this crap as well.. are you in or are you out?

    But, if the Packers are my company (wait I own stock), I want this PR nightmare over.. so I take action of these reports, I pick up the phone and I call Brett personally.. or better yet.. I hop on the corporate jet and arrive at Brett's gate in MS... and end this horseshit..

    We together hold a press conference and announce the intentions, whatever they may be, and end the medias hayday of cooking up speculation on this story.

    Sorry the world of professional sports is very open and public.. at times you need to handle things like this in the open and public.. end the embarrassment that this has become for the Packers and Favre.. whatever the outcome may be.
     
  21. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Okay.. it is in almost every timeline about the story..

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3477600

     
  22. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    haha i dont know if you agreeing with me helps or absolutely kills my arguement... but what you say is true.

    We had it mapped out, to continue this 18 year run of winning football. If it goes down... it throws every single peice of work out the window and could very well send us into the 70s again once Favre does finally quit, which i know might suprise some of you that he actually will retire someday.

    Thats a little dramatic I know. Ted Thompson and co. have done a very good job of building a football team and it would be unfair to say that one person could undo them. But football doesn't wait for anyone and there are 31 other teams out there trying to win. I just think its a lot trickier than saying ... Sure Brett, whatever you need man.


    But it all comes down to risk v reward. can we win the Super Bowl this year? sure. but its no given and is our future worth risking to give Favre another chance.
     
  23. dd80forever

    dd80forever Cheesehead

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    LOL, I guess you would have to watch football to know this, I will forgive your future posts from now on.
     
  24. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    You're entering a world of pain.
     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Fact

    Rodgers broke his foot
    Rodgers played the rest of the game on that broken foot

    Favre never played on a broken foot

    ~~~~~~
    dd80, is those 3 things are correct, what was your point?
     

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