Why Can't Get a Player Like This?

[Calebs Revenge]

And even even if not, the most accurate overall, the most accurate when it freaking mattered......

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I mean......you can do whatever you want with math numbers and equations I'm just looking at games won and championships won my dude.....
But....have fun with the numbers and do you.

I do agree that only looking at numbers you can count on your fingers is easier than thinking…but there are reasons that first graders aren’t in charge of anything important.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I do agree that only looking at numbers you can count on your fingers is easier than thinking…but there are reasons that first graders aren’t in charge of anything important.

Wow, now that I've had a chance to digest what you said and marinate on it....... you've convinced me.
Your argument is poignant, intelligent, well thought out.....and frankly it's made me rethink the very fabric of the cosmos.

I tell ya.....you and Isaac Newton....my grand children will hear of this day!!!!

If you couldn't tell. I thought your reasoning was awesome my guy.
Don't ever put the Milwaukees Best down. Evah!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rmontro]

Tom Brady wasn't even in the top 15 paid players that year...or might've been 14 or 15th iirc.
Guy who won six Super Bowls making less money than an outside linebacker for the Chicago Bears Yep sounds about right....

A lot of who is the highest paid player depends on who signed the most recent contract. Salaries tend to keep going up, up, up like a combo meal at McDonalds. Brady had the benefit of playing with consistently good defenses, but there's no denying he was also very clutch. And you can't argue with the seven rings, that is absolutely insane.

Regarding Brady's willingness to take a little less money to help the team: I do believe that is a real thing, although it is probably also exaggerated. But I wonder if some of that also has to do with Belichick being cheap.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with someone claiming Brady is the Goat...he isn't the best QB I've ever seen play, but I don't contest the Goat status as he not only won a ton of rings, he put up well above average stats and did it long after many thought he could.

When it comes to QBs I've always settled on comfortably saying there are three clear guys that deserve to be on Mt. Rushmore...

Brady - the overall Goat
Rodgers - the most efficient and best passing QB I've seen
Manning - the most lethal between the ears ever to do it
Mahomes - the modern day version of Favre with more skillful touch

The ONLY thing I'd disagree with this on is I'd most definitely put Montana in front of Manning. Montana is definitely on Rushmore. That guy delivered on the big stage almost to the level of Brady. He was just deadly and made everyone around him better. He could pick apart a D like nobody's business.

 

[El Guapo]

Agreed. One could sense in the 80s that watching Joe Montana was something special, like watching Michael Jordan emerge in his prime. He was the total package and a downright winner to boot.

 

[Pkrjones]

Using 100% hindsight if I were re-drafting for my team I would take Manning 100 out of 100 times. Montana was a lot like Starr, rock solid decision making, talent, & toughness. Perfect field general in every way. Manning was too, but also had the arm talent to do much more, imho.

Different era than now (or even 25 years later), Montana never threw for 4,000yds, & had a 2/1 TD/Int ratio. Manning only had 3 of 17 yrs in which he threw for less than 4,000 yds.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I just kind of feel like everyone is making the Terry Bradshaw argument against Tom Brady.......
Terry Bradshaw has four rings but was never mentioned in the conversation with the greatest quarterbacks and it's because everyone assumes they got their championships because of the steel curtain defense and they did but you still got to put the ball in the end zone and the man did it on a team leading to a title four times but why is Bradshaw never mentioned among the best?
Yeah, Belichick was a good defensive coach. Yes, he put the good defenses behind Tom Brady on the field, but Brady was clutch and he never broke the bank on the team. He never held out to be the highest paid quarterback in the league. He wanted other players to help win championships not get $10 million extra a year. ......
And yes, at the time his wife made that in 30 minutes on a Saturday afternoon on the beaches of Milan, but still he could've cared.............and he didn't.

 

[milani]

The ONLY thing I'd disagree with this on is I'd most definitely put Montana in front of Manning. Montana is definitely on Rushmore. That guy delivered on the big stage almost to the level of Brady. He was just deadly and made everyone around him better. He could pick apart a D like nobody's business.

And he could execute a game plan.

 

[mradtke66]

> but why is Bradshaw never mentioned among the best?

There is a big distinction between being a great quarterback and being a good to great quarterback on a good team. Brady and Bradshaw both didn't get their rings by being in the right place at the right time, like you could say about Dilfer on the Ravens. Bradshaw didn't have an impressive statistical season until 1978. And he was back to average by 1980. He's not considered among the best because by yardage he never lead the league while he played. He lead in TDs once, in 1978.

Brady is obviously better than that. He lead the league in TDs and yards a few times. The counter though is he only had 1 season where he was dominate in 2007 (though 2017 and 2020 were excellent). I also never considered him the player who could make All The Throws. He could do about 99% of them, but other than 2007, I wouldn't trust him on a deep out.


QBs get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. They are just one player. Normally the most important player, but they aren't doing anything on defense. Or outside of weird injury circumstances, kicking field goals or extra points.

> He never held out to be the highest paid quarterback in the league. He wanted other players to help win championships not get $10 million extra a year

This presumes that teams can simply buy their way to championship. They can't. Good players are kept. "Cap casualties" are a nice way to label players that simply aren't worth their contract.

The Pats are an oddity, mostly because of Belichick. He wasn't a great drafter, but was a great schemer and was flexible. He exploited market inefficiencies (finding diamonds in the rough to be role players on defense), and yes, he had Brady.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

Yes, Bradshaw never put up the gaudy numbers, but with the run game and the defense they had......he never really had to be an elite passer to bring his team back from behind every week.......

 

[Calebs Revenge]

> but why is Bradshaw never mentioned among the best?

There is a big distinction between being a great quarterback and being a good to great quarterback on a good team. Brady and Bradshaw both didn't get their rings by being in the right place at the right time, like you could say about Dilfer on the Ravens. Bradshaw didn't have an impressive statistical season until 1978. And he was back to average by 1980. He's not considered among the best because by yardage he never lead the league while he played. He lead in TDs once, in 1978.

Brady is obviously better than that. He lead the league in TDs and yards a few times. The counter though is he only had 1 season where he was dominate in 2007 (though 2017 and 2020 were excellent). I also never considered him the player who could make All The Throws. He could do about 99% of them, but other than 2007, I wouldn't trust him on a deep out.


QBs get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. They are just one player. Normally the most important player, but they aren't doing anything on defense. Or outside of weird injury circumstances, kicking field goals or extra points.

> He never held out to be the highest paid quarterback in the league. He wanted other players to help win championships not get $10 million extra a year

This presumes that teams can simply buy their way to championship. They can't. Good players are kept. "Cap casualties" are a nice way to label players that simply aren't worth their contract.

The Pats are an oddity, mostly because of Belichick. He wasn't a great drafter, but was a great schemer and was flexible. He exploited market inefficiencies (finding diamonds in the rough to be role players on defense), and yes, he had Brady.

Well, it is true that attempting to "buy" championships is a risky endeavor, but it can work.

 

[tynimiller]

Bradshaw isn't considered one of the greats at QB for a very simple reason IMO:

The same reason Robert Horry despite all his rings isn't even discussed as a top 100 player of all time....HE WASN'T that type of guy.

 

[mradtke66]

Well, it is true that attempting to "buy" championships is a risky endeavor, but it can work.

I'm not aware of any examples of it working. Pre-salary cap/Free Agency, all players were forever tied to their teams until they were no longer wanted.

The closest examples of it working might be Brady -> Bucs and Manning -> Broncos, but both are incredibly odd situations to great players at the end of their careers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Folks that believe the shuffling of cards/money isn't going to be a big issue someday are fooling themselves. Yes the cap is increasing...but KC is for sure an example of financing away your future for the present. It is something a lot of teams wouldn't want to do, and someday KC is going to hope lightning can strike a second time like it did in GB...or else they will be facing what as of today is an insane amount of dead money that will need to come due. Folks see that he signed a 10 year deal...but the crazy thing is they've added two void years as well....

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Thanks for posting, you read my mind as I was reading all the comments about "Mahomes sacrifices" for the better of the team. Let's also not forget that he signed the 10 year deal in 2020, when $45M/year was $10M/year higher than the next highest paid QB (ave. per year salary), Russell Wilson.

Dak Prescott just signed a $60M/year deal, imagine if Mahomes contract was up what he would be asking for.

Chiefs happened to make a very smart move by locking him in for 10 years at $45M/year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Wow, now that I've had a chance to digest what you said and marinate on it....... you've convinced me.
Your argument is poignant, intelligent, well thought out.....and frankly it's made me rethink the very fabric of the cosmos.

I tell ya.....you and Isaac Newton....my grand children will hear of this day!!!!

If you couldn't tell. I thought your reasoning was awesome my guy.
Don't ever put the Milwaukees Best down. Evah!!!!!!!!!!

I attempted to reason with you using facts and actually provided numbers to back up those facts. You said math and numbers showing reality didn’t matter to you. So how would you respond to someone who has basically said, “Reality doesn’t matter, only what i think matters”?

 

[tynimiller]

I attempted to reason with you using facts and actually provided numbers to back up those facts. You said math and numbers showing reality didn’t matter to you. So how would you respond to someone who has basically said, “Reality doesn’t matter, only what i think matters”?

Have you considered a diorama?

 

[Magooch]

I don't think Brady is the most talented, the smartest, the most accurate, or any of that stuff.
I mean, take our own Rodgers for instance. By just about every statistical measure he is superior to Brady, and yes, that IS including playoffs: he's more accurate, higher TD percentage, lower INT percentage, higher passer rating, superior in Y/A (and NY/A, and ANY/A), he was a more dangerous ballcarrier, puts more throws on target, and so on. But Brady has 7 titles to Rodgers' 1.

But, all that to say, I don't know what you want to call it but while yes - there were a lot of factors working in his favor (Belichick, elite defenses, braindead moments from the opponent) - Brady often just seemed to have that air of inevitability about him. Like when all the chips were down, if he had an opportunity, it always felt like he was going to come away the winner. Maybe that is buying into the hype, maybe players started to believe the "myth" a bit too much, I don't know.
In some ways I feel like it kind of reminds me of a football-version of Kobe. He was not the talented player ever. He had a tendency to play selfish at times. He would sometimes want to play "hero-ball" instead of making the "smarter" play. But he was also the guy that you always wanted to take the last shot and who would never shy away from the moment. He never wilted under pressure, he had no problem being the "villain" and he was more than happy to take responsibility in the biggest moments, win or lose. Just an ultimate competitor and a serial winner.

In the same way, like I said...Brady had a lot that would go his way. He seemed to get more "lucky" breaks than others would, and could at times be bailed out by extenuating circumstances. But he never wilted under the spotlights and when the pressure was on, if he had the chance to rip away a victory, more often than not it seemed like he did... Really interesting player to me overall. To be honest I think you could come up with a LONG list of guys who are more talented, smarter, more accurate, better arm, better ballcarriers, more mobile, and so on...but on the flip side if you had to make a list of guys you'd want to have the ball in their hands in big game-deciding moments, the number of guys before Brady is probably gonna be a pretty short list...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't think Brady is the most talented, the smartest, the most accurate, or any of that stuff.
I mean, take our own Rodgers for instance. By just about every statistical measure he is superior to Brady, and yes, that IS including playoffs: he's more accurate, higher TD percentage, lower INT percentage, higher passer rating, superior in Y/A (and NY/A, and ANY/A), he was a more dangerous ballcarrier, puts more throws on target, and so on. But Brady has 7 titles to Rodgers' 1.

But, all that to say, I don't know what you want to call it but while yes - there were a lot of factors working in his favor (Belichick, elite defenses, braindead moments from the opponent) - Brady often just seemed to have that air of inevitability about him. Like when all the chips were down, if he had an opportunity, it always felt like he was going to come away the winner. Maybe that is buying into the hype, maybe players started to believe the "myth" a bit too much, I don't know.
In some ways I feel like it kind of reminds me of a football-version of Kobe. He was not the talented player ever. He had a tendency to play selfish at times. He would sometimes want to play "hero-ball" instead of making the "smarter" play. But he was also the guy that you always wanted to take the last shot and who would never shy away from the moment. He never wilted under pressure, he had no problem being the "villain" and he was more than happy to take responsibility in the biggest moments, win or lose. Just an ultimate competitor and a serial winner.

In the same way, like I said...Brady had a lot that would go his way. He seemed to get more "lucky" breaks than others would, and could at times be bailed out by extenuating circumstances. But he never wilted under the spotlights and when the pressure was on, if he had the chance to rip away a victory, more often than not it seemed like he did... Really interesting player to me overall. To be honest I think you could come up with a LONG list of guys who are more talented, smarter, more accurate, better arm, better ballcarriers, more mobile, and so on...but on the flip side if you had to make a list of guys you'd want to have the ball in their hands in big game-deciding moments, the number of guys before Brady is probably gonna be a pretty short list...

Brady had to score far less often. That sense of inevitability you spoke of? It’s that his defense actually made it hard to score for the opponent so Brady could win more often while actually doing less. Rodgers and Manning could take a lead but they never really had a defense that could hold it. Once Brady got a lead it was EXTREMELY rare for his defense to give it up.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Have you considered a diorama?

How do i get the paper mâché font to load?

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I'm not aware of any examples of it working. Pre-salary cap/Free Agency, all players were forever tied to their teams until they were no longer wanted.

The closest examples of it working might be Brady -> Bucs and Manning -> Broncos, but both are incredibly odd situations to great players at the end of their careers.

Add LA with Stafford......so it can work.
Not advised....but can work.

 

[mradtke66]

Add LA with Stafford......so it can work.
Not advised....but can work.

Ah, but that was a trade. A pretty expensive one, but not FA.

 

[tynimiller]

Ah, but that was a trade. A pretty expensive one, but not FA.

Wasn't Reggie White a FA acquisition?

 

[mradtke66]

Wasn't Reggie White a FA acquisition?

He was. I'm not dumping on free agency entirely. I just think it's a pipe dream to count on it. As always, the really great players don't make it to free agency.

Reggie made it to free agency due to a quirk in how we got free agency at all. He wanted out from the Eagles. I'm not old enough to remember the specifics. Money? He didn't trust the front office? The offense was terrible?

He and a handful of others sued the NFL, which ushered in the next epoch--free agency and the salary cap. Reggie and the other named parties on the suit got the added bonus of being exempt from the franchise tag, at least for the first year. They all got completely unrestricted free agency.

 

[tynimiller]

He was. I'm not dumping on free agency entirely. I just think it's a pipe dream to count on it. As always, the really great players don't make it to free agency.

Reggie made it to free agency due to a quirk in how we got free agency at all. He wanted out from the Eagles. I'm not old enough to remember the specifics. Money? He didn't trust the front office? The offense was terrible?

He and a handful of others sued the NFL, which ushered in the next epoch--free agency and the salary cap. Reggie and the other named parties on the suit got the added bonus of being exempt from the franchise tag, at least for the first year. They all got completely unrestricted free agency.

Absolutely agree with you - it VERY rare the biggest fish if you will in FA rarely translate to SBs