Shields Signed

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In 2014 Shields will be paid the second highest, just behind Revis, I like the kid and him as a player, but $10 mill avg. is a bit too much. Grimes got $8 avg. and was the highest ranked CB on PFF (Yea he's older), Shields ranked 52, you could argue the Dolphins pass rush was better, but $2 mill more in avg. is a lot.

I just hope Cobb and Nelsons agent isn't Rosenhaus.

I agree that it's a lot of money, probably a little bit too much money, but he's our #1 cover CB, still young and could still improve so I'm fine with it.

BTW his PFF ranking is a little bit misleading as he isn't that great against the run. He was a top 10 corner in completion percentage, interceptions and passes defensed. He gave up too many yards, that's true, but hopefully he'll be able to improve there as well.
 

ivo610

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That's not really a valid question. Williams has only one year left on his contract costing $7.2 mil in both cash and cap in 2014. Byrd is looking for a long term deal with a heavy guarantee.

Now, if you ask me, would I take Byrd as a rent-a-player for 1 year at $7.2 mil I might say yes since Williams is likely to be gone after this season. I say "might" because rent-a-player deals are often bad for chemistry and it's not like Byrd is the only piece keeping us out of serious championship contention in 2014. Besides, this is purely idle conjecture.

It was implied if Byrd is signed tramon won't be resigned. Too much $ in the secondary.
 

Stevie DK

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I agree that it's a lot of money, probably a little bit too much money, but he's our #1 cover CB, still young and could still improve so I'm fine with it.

BTW his PFF ranking is a little bit misleading as he isn't that great against the run. He was a top 10 corner in completion percentage, interceptions and passes defensed. He gave up too many yards, that's true, but hopefully he'll be able to improve there as well.
Well, a complete CB can stop the run, can't see why PFF's ranking is misleading, it shows which is the best CB.
Good CB's don't shy away from the run, one thing Shield actually have improved on, still not a great at it.
 
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Well, a complete CB can stop the run, can't see why PFF's ranking is misleading, it shows which is the best CB.
Good CB's don't shy away from the run, one thing Shield actually have improved on, still not a great at it.

I agree that Shields has to improve his run defense, but he's main assignment is to cover the opponent's top WR. Take a look at the top 20 CBs against the run, not a lot of them are great cover corners, I rather have Shields than them even if they're ranked ahead of him in the PFF rankings.
 

rodell330

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For those supporting the Byrd signing, would you do it at the expense of Tramon?

Heck yes. There are some solid corners in the draft this year and I wouldn't be upset with a corner tandem of Varrett and shields , Roby and Shields or Dennard and Shields with Byrd and Burnett manning the safety spots. Besides you could add a guy like DOmique Rodgers cromartie for about 4 a yr via free agency and have the fastest cb tandem of all time. Use the first rd to upgrade the backer spot or DLine. Getting beat over the top would be a memory haha with Shields and DRC. None the less I still would rather see that extra pass rusher added even over Byrd now that Shields is locked up. Ppl are down on Bringing Jared Allen in because of the scheme but I throw out the scheme because the guy is a football player. Hes chasing rings now and You can't tell me you guys wouldn't be excited if he came to Green Bay scheme or not.
 
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ivo610

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Heck yes. There are some solid corners in the draft this year and I wouldn't be upset with a corner tandem of Varrett and shields , Roby and Shields or Dennard and Shields with Byrd and Burnett manning the safety spots. Besides you could add a guy like DOmique Rodgers cromartie for about 4 a yr via free agency and have the fastest cb tandem of all time. Use the first rd to upgrade the backer spot or DLine. Getting beat over the top would be a memory haha with Shields and DRC.

DRC wants alot more than 4 a year
 
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Heck yes. There are some solid corners in the draft this year and I wouldn't be upset with a corner tandem of Varrett and shields , Roby and Shields or Dennard and Shields with Byrd and Burnett manning the safety spots. Besides you could add a guy like DOmique Rodgers cromartie for about 4 a yr via free agency and have the fastest cb tandem of all time. Use the first rd to upgrade the backer spot or DLine. Getting beat over the top would be a memory haha with Shields and DRC.

There's absolutely no chance DRC would sign for $4 million a year after Shields got $9.75 million. Restructure Tramon's contract and we're fine.
 

rodell330

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There's absolutely no chance DRC would sign for $4 million a year after Shields got $9.75 million. Restructure Tramon's contract and we're fine.

Has he come out and say he wants top dollar or something? Maybe he does want shields money but so does every other corner.
 
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Has he come out and say he wants top dollar or something? Maybe he does want shields money but so does every other corner.

He doesn't have to come out and say that. He's one of the top corners on the market (arguably better than Shields) and only 1 1/2 years older, he'll get paid more than what you suggested.
 

Einstein McFly

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Well, a complete CB can stop the run, can't see why PFF's ranking is misleading, it shows which is the best CB.
Good CB's don't shy away from the run, one thing Shield actually have improved on, still not a great at it.

People need to stop believing that PFF is some all powerful metric of players. I don't believe that they have the quality of scouts watching every player on every team that the teams themselves do. Also, only the coaches and scouts on the teams themselves know the players responsibility given the play call for every play. The teams themselves are the professionals with skin in the game, so if they decide that someone is worth top five money and PFF ranks them way lower, you should probably trust the team.

I'd buy that the top 20% on PFF are better than the bottome 20%, but beyond that I don't put much stock in it.
 
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I'm sorry, but I have to correct you on that. Williams will be paid $7.5 million this year with a cap hit of $9.5 million. IMO we don't have to cut him though as restructuring his contract could save approximately $5 million in cap space for 2014.
That misses the point, doesn't it? The question was whether one would dump Williams to sign Byrd which, unqualified, is apples to oranges as I noted. If one want's to conjecture what Byrd's long term deal would look like, conjecture what a long term Williams renegotiation would look like, then compare the relative values, that's an entirely different question.

I think the by the time the Williams renegotiation number was put together, the inclination would be "neither".
 
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That misses the point, doesn't it? The question was whether one would dump Williams to sign Byrd which, unqualified, is apples to oranges as I noted. If one want's to conjecture what Byrd's long term deal would look like, conjecture what a long term Williams renegotiation would look like, then compare the relative values, that's an entirely different question.

I think the by the time the Williams renegotiation number was put together, the inclination would be "neither".

Well, I just wanted to put the numbers for Williams straight and point out that the Packers wouldn't have to cut Williams to sign Byrd as they could restructure Tramon's contract.
 

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Happy that we resigned Shields, but more than a little surprised at the amount. I like Shields a lot, but think we are over-paying. This contract appears to set the market going forward, we need to wait for other CBs to sign to see where this lands.

Congrats to Shields! Great to see someone not even get drafted, yet work their butt off and become a very good corner. The stat of he shut down Megatron and others shows he probably deserves it.
 
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Well, I just wanted to put the numbers for Williams straight and point out that the Packers wouldn't have to cut Williams to sign Byrd as they could restructure Tramon's contract.
Well, you're correct in stating $7.5 mil vs. $7.3 mil cash cost. But from a practical standpoint the cap differential between keeping vs. dumping Williams is $7.5 mil. We can either pay him and take a $9.5 mil cap hit in 2014 or release him and take a $2 mil dead cap hit. The cap savings is the same as the cash value.

The other possibility is renegotiating Williams as you suggest. However, as illustrated in the Burnett contract, writ larger with Shields, and writ probably a bit larger yet in any Byrd deal, it's "pay me later" with the cap hit and the collectively high risk with dead cap if these players don't play up to their deals.

Any way you cut it, the Burnett contract, the new Shields contract and a Byrd deal would be a lot of future cap and risk concentrated at DB to start with; renegotiating Williams would compound the problem with a 4th., albeit to a lesser degree. It's not like Williams would come dirt cheap anyway.

I would put a Williams renegotiation / extension at a much higher probability than a Byrd signing, but I'd say "neither" would not surprise me in the least. We can carry Williams' $7.5 mil excess cap this year and spend closer to the cap max than otherwise if it is assumed he'll be gone in 2015, yielding a $9.5 cap savings over 2014.

Williams has question marks. Will we get the 2012 Williams or the guy we saw in the closing games of 2013? Was the return to form a sign of recovery from nerve issues in the shoulder or a cap wake up call...a pre-contract year reality check if you will? Further, Williams will be 31 in 2015. I would be very reluctant to make a longish term commitment here which is what Williams would likely be looking for. Offer him a cheap deal and he'll likely play it like a franchise tag year...take the money now and roll the dice in FA next season.
 
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The other possibility is renegotiating Williams as you suggest. However, as illustrated in the Burnett contract, writ larger with Shields, and writ probably a bit larger yet in any Byrd deal, it's "pay me later" with the cap hit and the collectively high risk with dead cap if these players don't play up to their deals.

It's possible to structure Williams' deal in a way that it wouldn't result in the cap hit ascending over the length of it. As I said earlier ist possible to drop his cap hit to $4.5 million for 2014. The cap hit would have to rise in 2015 but could drop in 2016 and 2017 taking into consideration that he will turn 31 next week and maybe would agree to a lower base salary in 16 and 17.

I know Byrd would eat up a lot of cap space and I agree a lot of money would be eaten up by DBs (cut Bush to save another $1.7 million in cap space) but I would take that risk.
 

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Can someone please explain to me how TT "overpaid" for Shields? This guy was asked to cover the likes of Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall and Dez Bryant . Three of the top six or seven Wrs in the entire Nfl and Shields most definitely held his own. I can honestly say that Shields was the most consistent performer in the secondary if not the entire defense. We have to remember that this guy was an undrafted FA who had no clue how to be an Nfl corner not to long ago. So if TT overpaid he did so on a guy that is our best cover corner and playmaker for a secondary that didn't have to many big plays. If Shields stays healthy I'm willing to bet anyone here he turns into a top 5 corner and makes the pro bowl. The only attribute that Shields lacked was experience and now he's got one more season under his belt. shields earned his contract. If TT is such a brilliant Gm then give him credit for resigning Shields vs having 3 overpaid players in the secondary which wouldn't make him seem so brilliant correct?
 
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It's possible to structure Williams' deal in a way that it wouldn't result in the cap hit ascending over the length of it. As I said earlier ist possible to drop his cap hit to $4.5 million for 2014. The cap hit would have to rise in 2015 but could drop in 2016 and 2017 taking into consideration that he will turn 31 next week and maybe would agree to a lower base salary in 16 and 17.

I know Byrd would eat up a lot of cap space and I agree a lot of money would be eaten up by DBs (cut Bush to save another $1.7 million in cap space) but I would take that risk.
I think you're underestimating what Williams would accept.
 

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It's possible to structure Williams' deal in a way that it wouldn't result in the cap hit ascending over the length of it. As I said earlier ist possible to drop his cap hit to $4.5 million for 2014. The cap hit would have to rise in 2015 but could drop in 2016 and 2017 taking into consideration that he will turn 31 next week and maybe would agree to a lower base salary in 16 and 17.

I know Byrd would eat up a lot of cap space and I agree a lot of money would be eaten up by DBs (cut Bush to save another $1.7 million in cap space) but I would take that risk.

A guy like Hyde could be just a effective on special teams then Bush and be a whole lot cheaper that's for sure .
 
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I think you're underestimating what Williams would accept.

Do you think he would agree to restructure his contract to a four year, $20 million deal with $7.5 million guaranteed??? I think he would and that would work with our cap as well IMO.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Do you think he would agree to restructure his contract to a four year, $20 million deal with $7.5 million guaranteed??? I think he would and that would work with our cap as well IMO.
I doubt that. He knows we don't have a replacement. He could roll the dice and say pay me my $9.5 mil for this year or cut me. He'd likely draw more than that on the free market even as a #2 CB somewhere. Somebody will like that tape from the back half of 2013.
 

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I'll be surprised if they extend Tramon - has there been any indication they're talking to his agent? And I agree, if they are going to extend him, my guess is it would have to more than $10M in guarantees, perhaps significantly more. Remember, the market for CBs just went up. BTW, Tramon turns 31 years old in week.
 
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I'll be surprised if they extend Tramon - has there been any indication they're talking to his agent?

No, there haven't been any talks with his agents (at least none that I know of), can't see the Packers bringing him back with a $9.5 million cap hit though.
 

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But even with Williams' cap hit the Packers still have something like $27M of cap room (according to the Packer Update website), so if they don't mind paying him the $7.5M - and they don't - I don't think they'd extend him because of his impact on this year's cap. If they do extend him I think it would be more because they want to lock him up for the next two or three seasons.
 

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I'll be surprised if they extend Tramon - has there been any indication they're talking to his agent? And I agree, if they are going to extend him, my guess is it would have to more than $10M in guarantees, perhaps significantly more. Remember, the market for CBs just went up. BTW, Tramon turns 31 years old in week.
Agreed. If you can afford it this year why not just keep him around? There's some young CB's on the team also compared to him, they could pass him up. If you can afford it for a year it will give the Packers so much more future flexibility.
 

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