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Ron and Marty

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by net, Aug 14, 2006.

  1. net

    net Cheesehead

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    While this is a pure "woulda-coulda-shoulda" thread, I was thinking back to days gone by and what could have been.

    Ron Wolf was the critical force that made the Packers 1990's champions.
    Ron made some important decisions that were tremendously positive.
    Ron made many more that were, in hindsight, just shoot-from-the-hip dumb.

    Among the worst was the hiring of Ray Rhodes when Andy Reid was on staff.

    When Rhodes didn't work out, if you recall, his first choice to come coach Green Bay was his old friend Marty Schottenheimer. At that point, Marty was a bit on the outs, having produced good teams that didn't do well in the playoffs. Key phrase, in the playoffs.

    But he brings Marty in for an interview. Later Ron said, in effect, that Marty's strong personality might not mesh with his.(Think of the current situation in San Diego) So Ron hires Mike Sherman. He also says Marty wanted too much money. It was also a time when the organization was marshalling cash to build the new stadium.

    I wonder now what might have been if Ron had bitten the bullet and hired Marty instead of Mike Sherman. I'm not going to argue the Marty vs. Mike thing here, but when you see what Marty has in San Diego, it makes me envious. He could have been the Packers coach since Ray Rhodes.
    Marty ball is smart, tough football. As all of you know, I liked Mike Sherman, but Marty is a grade above. The Chargers this year have a very real shot to go to the big dance.

    The Packers have a very real chance at .500.

    Ron's move to Sherman instead of Marty ranks up there with among the most rank.

    End of rant.
     
  2. paxvogel

    paxvogel Cheesehead

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    Sherman finished well above .500 and took us to the playoffs every year but his last. I doubt anyone would have done better with an aging team, Walker was only an average and our receiving was mediocre until the last year. Sherman did fine until age caught up with the team. His failing was as a GM where he had bad drafts and no replacements.
     
  3. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Marty's better than Sherman. That is for sure.
     
  4. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    When I watch Schottenheimer coach, and I'm sticking up for his team, he drives me crazy with his conservative play-calling in crunch time. He really blew it in the playoffs two years ago. In the end, Sherman turned out to be a lot like Schottenheimer anyway: good in the regular season, bad in the playoffs. So I think it's a wash.
     
  5. yooperfan

    yooperfan Cheesehead

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    I agree with Greg, although Marty never had the GM albatross hanging around his neck like Sherman did.
    If Sherman had been only HC working for Ron Wolf I think things would have been better for him and he would possibly have been a step ahead of Marty.
    We will never know!
     
  6. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I agree, Sherman never took us deep in the playoffs. I'm not sure if Marty would of done better. We'll never know though but if I had to pick one or the other. I'd take Marty. If he had a SB ring, he'd probably in the running for a HOF coach.
     
  7. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    WOW....quite possibly the worst thread ever. Sherman bashers constantly point to playoff record....including the author of this thread.

    Sherman 2-4....33.3%

    Schott 5-12...29.4%



    HMMMM!!!!!
     
  8. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I don't see anything wrong with this thread. This is the sort of thing that fans like to talk about. Just to clarify my position, I was always glad that Schottenheimer never became coach of the Packers. As your numbers show, he has a solid, long-standing track record as a guy whose teams lose in the playoffs. So it was worth trying a new coach.

    Several of Schottenheimer's playoff losses were games where his team was favored and was playing at home. Sherman was headed in that same direction, as he was only 2-2 at home in the playoffs, and even the two wins were very close games.
     
  9. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    So this is a good thread? Schott is "a grade above"? How so? Please show me the numbers.
     
  10. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I disagree with net's premise that Marty S. would've been a better coach than Mike Sherman. But that doesn't mean it's a bad thread. It's worth debating.
     
  11. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Sorry....I didn't mean bad thread. I meant bad post..ie..Schott instead of Sherman.
     
  12. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    6 playoff games out of Sherman.
    17 playoff games out of Marty.

    186 wins for Marty and he's taken 3 teams too the playoffs. Browns, Chiefs, and Chargers.
    Sherman has 57 wins.

    I agree that Marty wouldn't of done any better than Sherman. It's hard to tell but both couldn't get it done in the playoffs but in terms of who is a better Head Coach. Marty in my opinion is a better coach. He's done it just about every where he's been. Sherman interviewed for 2 jobs and was beat out by Sean Payton and Dick Jauron. Currently if you compare the 2 they just don't match up. If Sherman gets another shot at coaching which he should, then we'll see what kind of a coach he is and where he stacks up with some of the best in the game today.
     
  13. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Whoaaaaaa......Now let's take a step back. First off people like to use MS's playoff record to try to degrade him as a coach and ignore his win/loss record. Then when the tables are turned they try to revert back to his win/loss record and don't want to talk about the playoff record anymore. Whichever one fits the argument they use, it's unfair and biased.
     
  14. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I'm comparing Marty and Sherman. I'm not denouncing one or the other. Marty has coached in 17 Playoff games.. He's won about 130 more football games than Sherman. Frankly I think Sherman needs to get another job again before you compare him to the likes of a coach like Marty Schotenheimer. If he gets ONE Super Bowl win, then he's argueably a HOF coach.

    Edit: I've said more than once I thought Sherman was a solid Head Coach. It's his GM decision making that lead to his firing.
     
  15. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Its been said time and time again GM Sherman got Coach Sherman fired. I have to agree with that with the exception he did not delegate his tasks as much as he should have and changing the entire game plan the day before the game was not the best method. He sometimes over thought himself.

    ^^^
    My opinion...
     
  16. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Porky, I was not even comparing Sherman with Marty at all myself BUT he does have a better playoff record than Marty.
     
  17. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    4% difference. If I could predict the future and see what Sherman would do in 11 more playoff games as a coach then I could give a definite answer. I think I'm going to give Miss Cleo a call. :wink:

    In my opinion, because of experience, Marty is the better coach.

    Although I believe Sherman is doing a great job in Houston right now with they're offensive line. From what I've seen and read, the Texan line looks nice. So if he works some magic with them, he def will get another job.
     
  18. net

    net Cheesehead

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    I could say I kissed the Virgin Mary and DePack would say I was passing along a disease. By the way...for a "Commish" you are woefully ill-informed. I supported Sherman the coach...but was never happy with his playoff record.

    Schottenheimer has a legit shot at the Super Bowl this year. Do the Packers?
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Marty also had a player named LT...

    That might have some bearing on hoow the Charges got to the playoffs..
     
  20. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    So you were never happy with Sherman's playoff record but you are with Schott's?

    Did you check out the records before you posted? Take it easy on me.....woefully ill-informed? Kinda harsh isn't it? I have feelings, you know!

    BTW....based on your outdated way of thinking, I find it entirely possible that you kissed the Virgin Mary. My guess is that you never got to second base though :oops:
     

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