Quarterback Exemption for NFL Salary Cap?

Pokerbrat2000

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A developmental league would be a win for the product, loss for the billionaires (they'd be paying the second team and making no ad money from them). Always remember, we fans love these teams; however, these teams are nothing more than money-making toys for the vast majority of owners. If an idea doesn't increase their profits, then the players have to give up money to get the idea to actually happen. Having better backup players to replace injured guys or poor players with only makes sense if winning is the primary goal and is rewarded in kind. Unfortunately, much like the NBA, the NFL doesn't reward winning with anything in the way of material compensation. The fans have fun, the owners get a parade and have to buy the players/coaches fancy rings and attendance spikes for a couple years. Those are drops in the bucket compared to the revenue that doesn't change whether the team goes 16-0 or 0-16 (tv money).

I agree with most of that. ;) What the owners may be missing out on though is the opportunity to seize the market for fans like myself. Fans who are hungry to go to games but can't get and/or afford tickets, yes I know that is unique mainly in Green Bay.

Times have changed a bit in the last 25 years in regards to the NFL. It is no longer a game that the average fan can afford to attend, yet alone a big game. The media is hungry to cover just about anything involving the NFL, as are a lot of fans.

But you are right, owners want to make money, that is their bottom line. If they feel the revenue streams aren't there and/or the resulting better players coming into the NFL don't justify the losses, it will never happen.
 
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Mondio

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Yes. The college system is farm league for NBA and NFL that is somehow structured to pay coaches millions and pay players in education. Curious how many coaches would jump at a chance to be paid in "education"...
Thousands of them do. Literally. At every level. Position coaches, interns etc. same for athletic trainers etc.
 

Mondio

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I have a hard time understanding people being opposed to the NFL installing a developmental league. Players who aren't ready to produce at the pro level immediately after coming out of college currently don't have any chance to play in a competitve league featuring talent even close to the one in the NFL. A farm league would present them with the chance of getting valuable playing time and developing into an NFL caliber player.

Just take a look at Kurt Warner, without the NFL Europe he would still work in a grocery store.
I'm not opposed to it. College is the system. They need to get more players and more time for some to develop them. I tried watching NFL Europe and it sucked. Rather watch college rivalries and follow into pros. I'd rather they keep that system in place and figure out ways to develop players within the existing system rather than start a new substandard product.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'm not opposed to it. College is the system. They need to get more players and more time for some to develop them. I tried watching NFL Europe and it sucked. Rather watch college rivalries and follow into pros. I'd rather they keep that system in place and figure out ways to develop players within the existing system rather than start a new substandard product.
For the me, the compromise between a farm league and better players to choose from during the season, is expanded rosters or at minimum, protection of the 10 players on your practice squad, as well as expanded game day rosters. Right now, almost 1/2 the roster are starters and as we have seen, if one position starts taking hits with injuries, your roster can get watered down pretty fast.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I saw Greg Hardy is a "Marquee Player" in the league and stopped reading. ;)

But in all seriousness, I think any "after college leagues" that can help filter more talent into the NFL can be a good thing. My preference though is for NFL teams to have a direct connection to development league team and its players, basically like MLB does with its farm system. I also would prefer the seasons to run at the same time, this keeps players on active duty, ready to be called up at a moments notice.
 

Curly Calhoun

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I saw Greg Hardy is a "Marquee Player" in the league and stopped reading. ;)

But in all seriousness, I think any "after college leagues" that can help filter more talent into the NFL can be a good thing. My preference though is for NFL teams to have a direct connection to development league team and its players, basically like MLB does with its farm system. I also would prefer the seasons to run at the same time, this keeps players on active duty, ready to be called up at a moments notice.

I don't know how economically viable that would be, and, as with most things, I imagine it comes down to dollars and cents.
 

Mondio

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What’s wrong with the current system?
For the most part,nothing. Most guys that have what it takes are going to make it in this system. Nothing I proposed makes it "better" just different.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't know how economically viable that would be, and, as with most things, I imagine it comes down to dollars and cents.
So far most things that have been tried have failed. So for now, the NFL will continue to use their #1 farm league, college football and us fans will just have to be satisfied with that.

What’s wrong with the current system?
IMO the current system underutilizes the potential talent that is available. Once each team forms their 53+ PS, that leaves a whole lot of potential talent out of work. Sure those guys can try to catch on later, but once they are out of the NFL system, employment elsewhere is going to be their #1 focus. So I guess if owners think 53 players + 10 unsecured practice squad players is enough for a 16+ game season, then the desire isn't there. However, as a fan, I see a need, as well as the potential to put a better product on the field.
 

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I saw Greg Hardy is a "Marquee Player" in the league and stopped reading. ;)

But in all seriousness, I think any "after college leagues" that can help filter more talent into the NFL can be a good thing. My preference though is for NFL teams to have a direct connection to development league team and its players, basically like MLB does with its farm system. I also would prefer the seasons to run at the same time, this keeps players on active duty, ready to be called up at a moments notice.

What about an 8 team league with a team for each division, IE the NFC Northerners, AFC West Winds, whatever. Each team could designate 12+/- players to the roster. Once they were "called up" to the NFL they couldn't go back to the developmental league during that particular season.

Games could be played on Friday nights at the same location as an NFL game between divisions so if the Vikings play at the Broncos the Northerners would play the West Winds at Mile High the Friday before. That way coaches from the NFL team could see their players up close and personal. Interest would mostly be from the hardcore fans who want to know how many drops player X had in practice during a full moon and families with kids younger than 12 who probably care more about the initial quarter of action and then need to get up and run around the stadium.

EDIT: can't spell.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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What about an 8 team league with a team for each division, IE the NFC Northerners, AFC West Winds, whatever. Each team could designate 12+/- players to the roster. Once they were "called up" to the NFL they couldn't go back to the developmental league during that particular season.

Games could be played on Friday nights at the same location as an NFL game between divisions so if the Vikings play at the Broncos the Northerners would play the West Winds at Mile High the Friday before. That way coaches from the NFL team could see their players up close and personal. Interest would mostly be from the hardcore fans who want to know how many drops player X had in practice during a full moon and families with kids younger than 12 who probably care more about the initial quarter of action and then need to get up and run around the stadium.

EDIT: can't spell.
I like it and I am sure there have been many versions of such thrown around. Some fans would cringe with the idea of suiting up with Vikings, Bears and Lions. I guess a few minor pitfalls with your plan is while the Vikings and Broncos staff will be in Denver for that game, the other 6 teams in their respective divisions will be playing elsewhere and what do you do on weekends when division rivals are playing each other? But I do like having players in such leagues having their rights owned by an NFL team. I think that part alone would keep me interested in following the "Pickettville Packers" if I know that someday, these guys could be playing for the Packers.

Think of the impact it might have had on Damarious Randall had he been told "Son, we are sending you down to the minors until you can work some of this sh*t out." Instead, we shipped him off to another farm team in Cleveland and lost his rights. :coffee:
 

Beebe82

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I like it and I am sure there have been many versions of such thrown around. Some fans would cringe with the idea of suiting up with Vikings, Bears and Lions. I guess a few minor pitfalls with your plan is while the Vikings and Broncos staff will be in Denver for that game, the other 6 teams in their respective divisions will be playing elsewhere and what do you do on weekends when division rivals are playing each other? But I do like having players in such leagues having their rights owned by an NFL team. I think that part alone would keep me interested in following the "Pickettville Packers" if I know that someday, these guys could be playing for the Packers.

Think of the impact it might have had on Damarious Randall had he been told "Son, we are sending you down to the minors until you can work some of this sh*t out." Instead, we shipped him off to another farm team in Cleveland and lost his rights. :coffee:

Your example with Randall is exactly why a league like this in some format is needed. All McCarthy would need to do is tell Gute to send out a message on the transaction wire that Randall has been designated for assignment and the message would have at least been received by Randall's agent and for sure all of his friends and family.

Coaching and scouting development is another advantage a developmental league could bring to the NFL. Being the head coach of a squad composed of players from various teams will be hard to manage and coaches who do it successfully probably have a very good command of a locker room.
 

Dantés

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So far most things that have been tried have failed. So for now, the NFL will continue to use their #1 farm league, college football and us fans will just have to be satisfied with that.

IMO the current system underutilizes the potential talent that is available. Once each team forms their 53+ PS, that leaves a whole lot of potential talent out of work. Sure those guys can try to catch on later, but once they are out of the NFL system, employment elsewhere is going to be their #1 focus. So I guess if owners think 53 players + 10 unsecured practice squad players is enough for a 16+ game season, then the desire isn't there. However, as a fan, I see a need, as well as the potential to put a better product on the field.

I think the product on the field suffers more from talent being spread too thin than from too much talent going unused. But I meant more in terms of the salary cap system.
 

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I prefer the way the NFL operates versus the NBA but guys stop using the Bucks as an example why the the NFL is better. Just stop. The reason they haven't won a PO series since 2001 isnt because they're a small market. The best team in the league the last 3-4 years has been a small market team and they'll continue to be so until either KD or Steph leave in all likelihood. The Knicks have sucked forever, the Lakers got a few decent pieces but are still a ways away and the Bulls have been good for like a total of 5 years post MJ. Market size doesnt mean what it used to in today's NBA

The Bucks have sucked because they've been one of the worst run franchises in all of sports. Not because of any salary cap set up
Pretty good points Ryder. Certainly cities like NY, LA, and Chicago are not going to have trouble generating revenue. And I definitely agree that the majority of the problems the Bucks have had, for at least the last 20-25 years, is inept management. No amount of money can fix stupidity. Anyway, point well made.
 

Heyjoe4

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I'm not opposed to it. College is the system. They need to get more players and more time for some to develop them. I tried watching NFL Europe and it sucked. Rather watch college rivalries and follow into pros. I'd rather they keep that system in place and figure out ways to develop players within the existing system rather than start a new substandard product.
A farm system for the NFL is interesting. The difference with MLB is scale. The different levels of the MLB farm systems have hundreds if not thousands of players. The NFL operates on a smaller scale, and so they use college football as a farm system and the practice squad to at least keep their hands on a small number of developing players. It would be interesting to see how many UDFA are on NFL rosters. The draft only touches a fraction of all college players. Too bad there’s not a way to organize that better. But MLB farm teams play real games every day. I just don’t see that working in the NFL.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I think the product on the field suffers more from talent being spread too thin than from too much talent going unused. But I meant more in terms of the salary cap system.

In terms of the salary cap, I wouldn't change the current system as far as exemptions for QB's or anyone. If they are on your roster, they count. Why give teams an exemption for having to pay one of the top players in the league?

As far as talent being spread too thin, I think you are looking to much at the small picture. No doubt players 1-22 are more talented on each roster than players 23-53. But when you are down to player #58 (practice squad guy) during the season, it sure would be nice to not have to go checkout the local bowling alleys and grocery stores to find player #64. A development league wouldn't just benefit the short term either, these are guys who have a chance to keep developing and could possibly be a starter 2-4 years down the road. We have seen this with guys like Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, etc.
 

Heyjoe4

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I like it and I am sure there have been many versions of such thrown around. Some fans would cringe with the idea of suiting up with Vikings, Bears and Lions. I guess a few minor pitfalls with your plan is while the Vikings and Broncos staff will be in Denver for that game, the other 6 teams in their respective divisions will be playing elsewhere and what do you do on weekends when division rivals are playing each other? But I do like having players in such leagues having their rights owned by an NFL team. I think that part alone would keep me interested in following the "Pickettville Packers" if I know that someday, these guys could be playing for the Packers.

Think of the impact it might have had on Damarious Randall had he been told "Son, we are sending you down to the minors until you can work some of this sh*t out." Instead, we shipped him off to another farm team in Cleveland and lost his rights. :coffee:
Man I love the “Picketville Packers”! I’d buy season tickets! All kidding aside, some form of limited and active farm system makes sense for owners, players, and fans. The salary demands at that level would be quite low, but enough to keep them from starting other careers - at least for a few years post-college to see if they can be developed for the “Bigs”.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Man I love the “Picketville Packers”! I’d buy season tickets! All kidding aside, some form of limited and active farm system makes sense for owners, players, and fans. The salary demands at that level would be quite low, but enough to keep them from starting other careers - at least for a few years post-college to see if they can be developed for the “Bigs”.
I agree and as I said earlier, I think football today is different than it was 20-30 years ago when going to see a professional game was more affordable than it is now. For $15-30/ticket, I would go watch those Picketville Packers and I also think there would be media wanting to cover it, as well as other sources of revenue to bring it close enough to being profitable. It's actually kind of funny when you stop and think about it, the talent level would be higher than that of a college team, yet unless and until it catches on, its popularity would be far less.

But if I am an owner of an NFL team and even if I had to run a farm team at a $1-10 M loss, if it was making my NFL team better and driving income up on that end, the losses would be well worth it.
 

sschind

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I'm not opposed to it. College is the system. They need to get more players and more time for some to develop them. I tried watching NFL Europe and it sucked. Rather watch college rivalries and follow into pros. I'd rather they keep that system in place and figure out ways to develop players within the existing system rather than start a new substandard product.

Just curious as to why you thought NFL Europe sucked. If it was because of the talent level and quality of play that will never change no matter how you structure a developmental league. If the 2000+ best football players are in the NFL no league is going to get any better talent.

IMO for any sort of developmental league to work it has to have an NFL team affiliation like Poker says. NFL Europe tried something like that by allowing NFL teams to designate players to the various NFLE teams. At least in doing this NFL fans had a vested interest in keeping up with their team's players.

I doubt I would watch a random league and I probably wouldn't even watch Packers Light football. I'm sure a lot of fans would but would it make money or if it were run as a non profit arm of the NFL would the owners be willing to kick in. I think a better way would be to increase roster sizes and find ways for coaches to spend more time with the developmental players.
 
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sschind

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What about an 8 team league with a team for each division, IE the NFC Northerners, AFC West Winds, whatever. Each team could designate 12+/- players to the roster. Once they were "called up" to the NFL they couldn't go back to the developmental league during that particular season.

Games could be played on Friday nights at the same location as an NFL game between divisions so if the Vikings play at the Broncos the Northerners would play the West Winds at Mile High the Friday before. That way coaches from the NFL team could see their players up close and personal. Interest would mostly be from the hardcore fans who want to know how many drops player X had in practice during a full moon and families with kids younger than 12 who probably care more about the initial quarter of action and then need to get up and run around the stadium.

EDIT: can't spell.

Glad I continued reading. I had the same suggestion all typed out but decided to read on before posting. One issue I could see would be teams not wanting to collaborate with divisional rivals. I'm guessing every team would want one of their designated players to be the starting QB so how do you work that out? It is an interesting idea though and does keep the team affiliation intact.
 

sschind

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In terms of the salary cap, I wouldn't change the current system as far as exemptions for QB's or anyone. If they are on your roster, they count. Why give teams an exemption for having to pay one of the top players in the league?

As far as talent being spread too thin, I think you are looking to much at the small picture. No doubt players 1-22 are more talented on each roster than players 23-53. But when you are down to player #58 (practice squad guy) during the season, it sure would be nice to not have to go checkout the local bowling alleys and grocery stores to find player #64. A development league wouldn't just benefit the short term either, these are guys who have a chance to keep developing and could possibly be a starter 2-4 years down the road. We have seen this with guys like Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, etc.


Um... because we are one of those teams... :D:D:D:D I mean we could try it for lets say 4 or 5 or 6 years then if it isn't working we can go back to the way it is now.
 

Mondio

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Just curious as to why you thought NFL Europe sucked. If it was because of the talent level and quality of play that will never change no matter how you structure a developmental league. If the 2000+ best football players are in the NFL no league is going to get any better talent.

IMO for any sort of developmental league to work it has to have an NFL team affiliation like Poker says NFL Europe tried something like that by allowing NFL teams to designate players to the various NFLE teams. At least in doing this NFL fans had a vested interest in keeping up with their team's players.

I doubt I would watch a random league and I probably wouldn't even watch Packers Light football. I'm sure a lot of fans would but would it make money or if it were run as a non profit arm of the NFL would the owners be willing to kick in. I think a better way would be to increase roster sizes and find ways for coaches to spend more time with the developmental players.
I don't even remember the level of play being goodnor poor. Mostly just unfamiliar teams, players that didn't really play for the championships I'm familiar with :)

Which is odd for me, I do like to see the young guys play and develop. Much greater appreciation with preseason games than I used to have, but still I don't think I'd watch much. Too many guys that don't have it or won't develop minus the superstars and it's kind of a dud to me. I'd rather more developmental players and more time with coaches in this league, Not a new one.

I'm not sure talent level would be higher than that of a college team because most of these guys would be the lower ceiling perceived or real, 5th year senior guys not drafted or haven't latched on yet etc. college teams still have the draw of the sophomore or junior that will leave early and has lights out athleticism. A new league won't have that.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Thousands of them do. Literally. At every level. Position coaches, interns etc. same for athletic trainers etc.

I'm not real sure how many position coaches or athletic trainers at universities don't get a salary, in fact I can't think of any. Interns by their very nature, in many industries, are unpaid and simply seeking experience; if interns are allowed as an answer then there's no reason to pay anyone, anywhere.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I doubt I would watch a random league and I probably wouldn't even watch Packers Light football. I'm sure a lot of fans would but would it make money or if it were run as a non profit arm of the NFL would the owners be willing to kick in. I think a better way would be to increase roster sizes and find ways for coaches to spend more time with the developmental players.

My preference is increased roster sizes, as well as more protection on preventing teams from raiding practice squad players.

If all else fails, I can always shut off the NFL and watch this league. A note on this league, it was very helpful where they placed the lower number on the backsides of the players, easier to keep track of who you are watching. :coffee:

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