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Davis currently presents the best option at returning punts and kickoffs on the roster. As long as another player doesn't unseat him in that area he will make the roster, even if Davis doesn't produce on offense.
Maybe we could get Jeff back for return duties instead
I don't recall him returning punts.Maybe we could get Jeff back for return duties instead
I don't recall him returning punts.
The bottom line here is that Kumerow is the new Janis (i.e. irrational fan favorite destined for greatness) and Davis is a pariah. It doesn't matter than Davis would add more value because of his ST ability. For the most part this isn't going to be a rational debate. People just have a visceral love of one guy and disgust for the other.
Davis is tough for me. as a WR, he's never offered much, and I still can't get that open bomb he didn't even put his hands out for out of my head.
Oh come on man! Kumerow has a much higher yds/catch, he is a stud!
Davis: 8 catches 94 yds. 11.8/catch, 1 TD
Kumerow: 8, 103, 12.9, 1
But yes, much like all those "hopes and dreams guys" that came before them, neither guy will probably turn out to be much over time. Tonyan may currently fall into this category as well.
I will say that I have liked Kumerow's work as a WR better than Davis, but if someone like J'Mon Moore showed he can return punts and it came down to keeping just 1 of the 3, Moore would be my pick. Then maybe Moore can become that next "hopes and dreams guy".
LOL, yeah, Aaron HATES those traits in a WR. We know how he ices-out WR's who run bad routes and/or drop easy balls.
"Lazard and Kumerow won't be on the final roster." ~ pretty definitive opinion. Even though Kumerow is 27 he only has 1 yr accrued NFL service so still under Packer-control for 2 more years. Also, has a smaller cap # than '18 draft picks so no reason why couldn't beat-out Moore or ?? for roster spot. He's got an uphill battle, but far from definitively off of the roster in Sept.
If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G
50 CATCHES?! That isn't within the realm of reality.
Let's go over this, ok?
Will JK play over Adams? No.
MVS? No.
EQSB? No.
Allison? No.
Moore? Maybe.
Davis? Probably.
So as a WR, he is AT BEST, our #5 WR.
Jimmy Graham and Aaron Jones are assuredly going to get more targets than Kumerow. Probably Sternberger too, but I'll be optimistic and take him out. So at best, the #7 option in the offense could get 50+ catches?
Kumerow doesn't do enough in other areas of the game to justify a roster spot. Your 5/6 WR either has to be a developmental piece, or really good on ST's, preferably both. Kumerow is neither. I don't think it's even a hard decision. He isn't making the roster.
If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G
Just because he only sees the field on STs, doesnt mean that is all he is there for. Kizer only sees the field on FGs and XPs to hold. That doesnt mean he is here because of that. I think he is here because they are developing him at other positions and roles.I keep throwing out Crawford because he was kept specifically to be a kick/punt cover guy. He really emerged as a key ST player late in preseason, and it won him a roster spot. That's why he spent 333 snaps on ST last year, and 1 on defense. And that's fine! You need those guys.
Davis has had his opportunities as a WR. It isnt going to happen for him. If I'm the Packers, if anyone on the roster has an aptitude or skills for it, Davis is gone.To me, the issue with keeping Davis isn't his talent, or how much he adds to the WR room, it's his health.
9/10 times, your 6th WR ain't doing **** anyways. The guys on the bottom of the depth chart HAVE to contribute on ST's. Take Alan Lazard...what's he gonna do on ST's? Probably jack squat. So don't keep him, there's no value to it.
Running good routes and having reliable hands are the 2 most important traits in a WR. Maybe the racist here is you. Maybe you dont like him because he is white and the old dogma 'only black men are good enough to play WR' is stuck in that noggin of yours.Kumerow *isn't* good. Honest truth, he seems to have good hands and run reliable routes, . . .
People like Kumerow because he's local, and because he's the white WR unicorn. He's just flat out not good enough to place on the roster over Davis. He doesn't contribute on ST's enough to justify it.
I would love to improve from Davis on the roster, but Kumerow ain't it.
All looks good to me, but I think you are light on OLBs, especially if the plan is to move Gary and ZSmith to the line on 3rd and longs. Not that I know who deserves a roster spot.To me this thread is WAY TOO EARLY. But I'll bite:
QB
A. Rodgers
T. Boyle
D. Kizer
RB
A. Jones
D. Williams
J. Williams
D. Vitale
WR
D. Adams
M. Valdez-Scantling
G. Allison
E. St. Brown
J. Kumerow
J. Moore
TE
J. Graham
J. Sternberger
R. Tonyan
M. Lewis
OL
D. Bakhtiari
E. Jenkins
C. Linsley
B. Bulaga
C. Madison
B. Turner
L. Taylor
J. Spriggs
L. Patrick
DL
K. Clark
M. Daniels
K. Keke
D. Lowry
T. Lancaster
M. Adams
OLB
R. Gary
Z. Smith
P. Smith
K. Fackrell
LB
B. Martinez
O. Burks
C. Bolton
T. Summers
CB
T. Williams
K. King
J. Alexander
J. Jackson
K. Holman
T. Brown
S
D. Savage Jr
A. Amos
J. Jones
R. Greene
ST
M. Crosby
J.K. Scott
H. Bradley
All looks good to me, but I think you are light on OLBs, especially if the plan is to move Gary and ZSmith to the line on 3rd and longs. Not that I know who deserves a roster spot.
Suspect only 3 RBs will be kept. Seems you can always pick up a decent one in mid season off somebodies PS.
Donnerson = Summers. A 7th round flyer on an incredible athlete. It takes these guys a while to convert if they hit at all. So . .. dont give up on Donnerson and dont count on Summers just yet.Perhaps so, but I think if necessary, and only if necessary Summer may be able to supplement in the event of injury. Summers is only 6'2, but he does have the speed to make up for it I believe. Honestly, I don't see the need for Gilbert, Donnerson, or anyone else for that matter if they they really aren't going to see the field. That's why I kept Summers and Bolton, because the needs seems to be at ILB more. Both Summers and Bolton should be able to fill the ST spots as well when playing behind Martinez and Burks. My money for whatever reason is Bolton getting head of Summers and maybe pushing Burks as he has the most experience coming from college. I think Gute will save that emergency cap money for an OLB signing if necessary.
Vitale COULD be replaced by a combo of Lewis and J. Williams but I believe there is a certified role in MLF's offense so I can't see him being cut. Maybe we'll see that in the Preseason to see if they are thinking the same thing. However, it may not happen because teams may key in on Lewis/J. Williams being subbed in and out on certain sub-packages and able to predict the play. Vitale eliminates that.
Agreed. I think that is a "TT trap", relying too much and on too many rookies and inexperienced second year guys to back fill the roster. While I understand that you want to keep them around to develop and that it would be impossible to have a cap compliant 53 man roster of all veterans, but it sucks to hit mid season and due to injuries, you start realizing just how not ready these guys are.Donnerson = Summers. A 7th round flyer on an incredible athlete. It takes these guys a while to convert if they hit at all. So . .. dont give up on Donnerson and dont count on Summers just yet.
Donnerson = Summers. A 7th round flyer on an incredible athlete. It takes these guys a while to convert if they hit at all. So . .. dont give up on Donnerson and dont count on Summers just yet.
If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G
Just because he only sees the field on STs, doesnt mean that is all he is there for. Kizer only sees the field on FGs and XPs to hold. That doesnt mean he is here because of that. I think he is here because they are developing him at other positions and roles.
True, Donnerson is the better athlete and bigger, but Summers may be the better technician, perhaps. I'm only guessing. I'm assuming Gute "double-tapped" the position either to give Donnerson competition or maybe push him out. Maybe there's somebody else who is an obvious camp casualty that we aren't considering yet. (Trying not to say Moore, but Moore).
Also, we are all going to have to reconsider our posts, Curtis Bolton, Javien Hamilton, and Greg Roberts have all SIGNED 3 year deals. I'm guessing that means Tramon Williams, Donnerson, and somebody else is an odd man out(Burks?). I'm not sure how easy it is to cut UDFAs, but those 3 signings alone are about $1.7-2.2M, that would be very costly considering our cap at this point if we had to pay out even a small portion of that money. I'm pretty sure Gute wouldn't sign them if he could have just invited them to camp and not paid them anything. So there was a market for them somewhere.
EDIT - Nothing against Burks, but I would be THRILLED if Gute were to cut him; because that shows what type of GM we really have. TT would let guys just squat on the roster for 3-5 years before finally replacing them, and I would respect him even more if he admitted it wasn't a good fit and had the Packers move on. Obviously Pettine would need to concur, but I would get really excited about it. It would be nice if Gute could even trade him, I could be wrong, but I feel we could probably get a 6th for him next year. Day 3 picks matter.
Nature of the beast. A conflict between floor, ceiling, and liklihood. In the 7th you can get a player who is ready to play, but he wont ever be be more than an average backup. Better to take a Summers who isnt ready, but has the physical skills to be a dominant player. Sure he is a long shot to put things together, but he is the sort of player you need to impact and win as opposed to a guy who can fill in.Agreed. I think that is a "TT trap", relying too much and on too many rookies and inexperienced second year guys to back fill the roster. While I understand that you want to keep them around to develop and that it would be impossible to have a cap compliant 53 man roster of all veterans, but it sucks to hit mid season and due to injuries, you start realizing just how not ready these guys are.
Rodgers new contract makes it even more of a challenge to carry a roster with experience, but that just means Gute and the Packers have to be smart and make great decisions in regards to second contracts and FA signings.