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Packers trade Worthy to Pats

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by captainWIMM, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Thompson has had more draftees make the team than any other GM in the last 10 years... and we're a contending football team. So, you know... there's that.
     
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  2. Greenbayphil

    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    So what happens if he fails the physical?
     
  3. I_am_smoked_cheddar

    I_am_smoked_cheddar Guest

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    I believe the trade is conditional on the traded players making their teams. If that does not occur, The Patriots get no player and The Packers get no draft pick/picks. Also the Players would not have jobs either. SO !
    The Packers will gain cap money though, we need a good return man for Special Teams. Many talented players will be available soon, as teams trim their rosters. SO !
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Thompson has done a great job as the GM of the Packers, but I don´t understand some of you not being able to criticize him at all.

    There´s absolutely no denying that Worthy was a wasted pick and even cost us another fourth round pick as Thompson traded up for him. Taking a look back at the entire 2012 draft class (with only three players still on the roster two years later) I think it´s absolutely fair to question the moves TT made during that specific draft.
     
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  5. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I would point out that the Packers reportedly wanted Kendall Reyes in the 2nd round that year, but he got taken a couple picks before the Packers could nab him.

    I'm not real happy with the Pack only getting a 7th rounder for Worthy. I think Worthy has about a 50% shot of being a contributor to NE's 4-3 defense, but something is better than nothing I guess.
     
  6. Greenbayphil

    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    Worthy was a wasted pick, yes. It was a wasted pick due to injury though and obviously these things are unpredictable. I was at least expecting a 6th round pick. 7th round selection for the 51st overall pick from 2 years ago seems a little low. Hopefully he passes his physical.
     
  7. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    The greatest poker players don't win every hand. They know to fold the bad ones. Its just the nature of the game. To criticize one of the best GMs in the NFL for draft picks that fail is either a demonstration of ignorance on realistic expectations or a desperate person grasping at anything to find evidence for a failed belief.
     
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  8. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    I hope Worthy doesn't hurt himself getting on and off the plane.
     
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  9. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, having only three players of an entire draft class on the roster only two years later isn´t satisfying, especially when being a draft and develop team.
     
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  10. I_am_smoked_cheddar

    I_am_smoked_cheddar Guest

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    The Packers do a fine job drafting, but past performance shows an unwillingness to address team needs until the next seasons draft. Shedding the team of Worthy's cost & dead weight is fine, but will the teams needs be addressed with the money saved ?
     
  11. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Of course we all want every player to be HOF, but that isn't going to happen. If Hayward and Daniels prove to be studs for the Packers the next few seasons, then it will be a great draft.

    I want Rodgers to complete every pass as well. Should we criticize him every time he tosses a poor pass that goes incomplete?
     
  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers saved $700K in cap room by trading Worthy, they won´t make any major moves during this season anymore. We should be fine with Harris as the kickoff returner and Hyde or Cobb as the punt returner. Maybe one of the rookies will step up during the next few weeks as well.
     
  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    IMO it is fair to criticize Thompson as well as Rodgers if they make mistakes. That doesn´t mean, like I already mentioned above, that I don´t think TT is a great GM or Rodgers the best QB in the league though.
     
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  14. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Here are some of the draft notes that came from scouts before the 2012 draft:

    What the scouts were saying:
    AFC scout: "I don't like him particularly. He will be a late first to early second. I don't like his production. He flashes. He (set up) the safety on the running back (Montee Ball) against Wisconsin. But you look during the course of the game, what does he do? He'd go shoot a gap and go running the wrong way. Doesn't chase. Doesn't hustle. I ain't crazy about the guy. I'd take (Michigan's Mike) Martin over him."
    NFC scout: "Great kid. A really good interview. Inconsistent. More flash than substance."
    AFC scout: "Yeah, he's up and down. He's a pain in the (expletive) kind of guy is what he is. This guy has all kinds of ability. I don't know why he doesn't play good all the time. You tell me? He can do anything he wants when he wants to do it. He didn't do it a lot against Wisconsin. He had a little spurt in one of the two games in the third quarter. Not that he's a bad guy, but I don't know if I trust him. When you're talking about a first-rounder you want total trust. That bothers me. I could compare him to Phil Taylor of the Browns. I think Taylor is a better player. More consistent."
    NFC scout: "I don't know if I trust him."
    NFC scout: "He plays well. He's another one with a lot of ability. If he's consistent he will end up being a good player."
    NFC scout: "I think he's a nose tackle in a 3-4."
    AFC scout: "Big, thick, lazy guy. Got a ton of ability. Would I take him in the first? No. But Phil Taylor went first last year. You just worry about guys that have ability and play lazy for most of their career. Because when they make money they're usually not very good. He's that kind of a guy. He could be a first without any question. Is he worthy of it? Probably not. He can do it when he wants to. He doesn't do it all the time."
    AFC scout: "I'm not that high on him. He will be taken in the second. I like a lot of the other guys better."
    NFC scout: "I don't trust him as far as I can throw him. He needs to be more consistent. He may have some stamina issues. He's got very strong hips and very good feet. When he turns it up he can rush the passer."
    NFC scout: "He's good, but not big-time good."
    NFC scout: "Up and down. I liked the kid. Really a friendly son of a gun. His father had a stroke and he was bothered by it. It didn't seem to bother him during the season. Nice kid."
    AFC scout: "He's not for me."
     
  15. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I'm still a big TT fan, as overall his body of work as our GM has been above average to excellent. Of course, excellent doesn't mean "never made mistakes" as that is an impossibility in the NFL. However, 2011 and 2012 have been his worst drafts by far. In 2011, the only two players that offer any ray of sunshine are Cobb and maybe Sherrod. TT's success rate in that draft is a pitiful 14% (excluding Sherrod for now). In 2012 he had two hits with Hayward and Daniels with Perry teetering on the edge of the cliff. Assuming that Perry fails and Sherrod turns into a good lineman, TT will achieve only a 25% success rate in both of these drafts.

    In my rankings (which have been discussed before), TT's career draft rate was slightly above 50% while Ron Wolf's career rated a 47% success rate. TT has now dropped down to a 45% success rate. That's still not a bad place to be considering most of the other non-Vince Lombardi GMs for the Packers had success rates in the 20-to-low 30% range. That's why I still say that TT is in that above average to excellent range.
     
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  16. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I tend to disagree with this statement in general, because I think that it reflects more on the emergence of other young (and healthy) players on the D-line than a change in TT's approach.

    GoPGo's assessment seems appropriate. Pennel was going to displace Worthy on the depth chart so why not see if you can get anything for him from another team instead of just cutting him. TT isn't always right, but he always tries to accrue value from his personnel moves.
     
  17. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Agreed but these posts go beyond “not being able to criticizing him at all”:
    Both posters have backed off these posts – kudos for doing so – but the posts no doubt caused part of the reaction.

    jsonline has the Packers’ cap space at $12,714,316 if Worthy passes his physical with New England, and even if he doesn’t it would be just under $11M so this move doesn’t make that much of an impact. BTW, isn't Thornton first in line to take the spot Worthy was drafted to fill?
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I don't see it that way, and there is some fairly obvious evidence in support.

    The team record with Tolzien and Flynn should be indicative of the quality of the roster excluding the QB position. Flynn alone was 2-2-1 and might reasonably be judged to have played at around the league median for starting QBs. After all, for every Peyton Manning or Brady or Rodgers or Brees there is a Ponder or Gabbert or one of Buffalo's four 2014 QBs or even Eli Manning in one of his pick-riddled off years.

    We had an average team behind a more or less middle-of-the-pack QB.

    Cap discipline and the selection of Aaron Rodgers are the only significant differentiators.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    He was DEAD MONEY on or off the team anyway.
    Good move here by Teddy to possibly cash him in for a pick.
    We'll see if Worthy stays healthy long enough to make the Pats roster though....
     
  20. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    I'm fine with criticizing Thompson. Some people on this forum do it in a very disrespectful manner. I'm not fine with that.
    I was very unhappy with the Justin Harrell pick when he made it and was skeptical of other picks as well. He knows way more about his job than any of us and has way more pertinent info than we could ever hope to accumulate. For many reasons, some picks just don't work out well. It's more art than science, and luck, both good and bad are thrown into the mix as well.
    Some seem to think we are a one man franchise (Rodgers). The number of teams gobbling up our cuts and castoffs refute that.
    Our record over the past ten years makes it easy for me to forgive Ted's misses. Overall the product is phenomenal and the future looks very bright.
     
  21. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    That ignores the impact of injuries over the last several years, unless you are blaming Thompson for them. And I hope we won't find out but I'll bet the team responds much, much better to the absence of Rodgers this season. Having both Flynn and Tolzien in the off season program will make a significant difference.
     
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  22. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I see both sides of that coin.

    But what clearly stands out to me was the Thanksgiving Day game last year at Detroit, with Flynn.

    I have never seen a more one-sided game in the NFL since the 1976 expansion Buccaneers.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Did you miss the Super Bowl?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
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  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I find the injury issue to be a matter of assumption and not demonstration.

    Besides Rodgers, and other than Bishop, Collins and Bulaga over a few years, I'm not seeing where the impact is meaningful nor am I seeing the situation to be meaningfully above the league average. Most teams lose starters for some games (like Matthews) either through injury or suspension and the league is riddled with quality players having IR seasons and career ending injuries each year.

    Many IR seasons occur in the offseason, camp or preseason that don't get counted in the "lost starter games" stats. Guys with career ending injuries come, go, are forgotten by that team's uninitiated, and are also not counted in the "starter games lost" all across the league.

    IR seasons and career-ending injuries to mediocre starters and backups should be pluggable if the GM is one of the best in the league, tapping into some value in the free agent market if necessary.

    This does not even consider the Packers' conservative approach to injuries, one that might inflate games (or even careers) lost. David Wilson is a recent example ripped from the headlines. After sustaining a neck injury it was discovered he had spinal stenosis. He was recently cleared for practice regardless. Then he took a hit to the head and sustained numbness in his extematies. Only then was he counseled to retire, which he did. If Collins or Finley or Jolly were Giant draftees they might still be on the field.

    By the way, to whatever extent Flynn or Tolzien might be judged above the league average at some future date correlated with a commensurate record above 0.500 record in relief, then this would simply reinforce the notion that the roster outside the QB position is not particularly strong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  25. Darth Garfunkel

    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    [​IMG]
     
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