Packers Trade Candidates

[Voyageur]

We need to constantly focus on the consistency in building a 53-man roster, not concentrate on the upper one or two players taken in drafts and calling the picks a failure because someone doesn't pan out. Granted, it can change like it did with Ted Thompson. He started out where he was an amazing judge of talent then as his health slipped, that slowly disintegrated. That wasn't his fault because most people never spotted what was happening to him, and as all of us would be, we don't want to admit we're losing our cognitive skills.

When The 3-headed-monster of coach, GM, and VP Ball weren't aligned in the pecking order, and all 3 answered directly to the President, I thought it was a recipe for disaster. It has actually worked out quite well because all 3 seem to be seamlessly working together to create more balanced decision making. I felt Gutekunst was not the right man for the GM job as well. I will readily admit I was dead wrong. He was definitely the right man for the job at the time it was given to him and still is.

The last 7-years have been impressive, just like the last 30. I'd take our GMs over that period of time and our drafting over anyone else in the league. It's been consistent through changes in leadership, where you can see that the only team ahead of them, the Patriots, have gone down the tubes without Bill Belichick. He was the glue that held that franchise together.

 

[Magooch]

Overall, I am very happy with the way things are going. Top-to-bottom, we have consistently put together good-to-great squads for quite some time now. That's better than most teams can say and IMO no small feat.

But at the same time I do also agree with the notion that we have often been lacking for "X-factor" or "Difference Maker" players in the biggest matchups. Once you get into the postseason, you're running into teams who also have a very good 53-man roster. Maybe not with the same consistency that we do, but a good roster all the same (and in a one-off game...nobody cares about "consistency" on that day, you know?). And when you've got two similarly-strong 53-man rosters coming up against each other...more often than not it seems to come down to who's got more elite difference-making players. It feels like many times that's often where we've come up short.

Like I said, we have consistently put together good-to-great rosters. In terms of long-term stability/consistency, esp. as it relates to roster construction, cap management, etc. there are few who do it better. And hitting on early draft picks is not necessarily the only way to add those difference-making players, to be fair. But I do understand that criticism too. When all the chips are down, a lot of times it feels like we are left without those one or two players to take over the game for us.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Ranking teams that draft in the Top 5 on average against teams that draft in the bottom 5 (KC, GB, Baltimore) is a TERRIBLE way to grade a GM imo. It’s a grading system that’s skewed from go.

Then using 3 seasons to judge a GM when he wasn’t even a GM? that’s 30% of your formula that needs to be completely extracted. 30% of those drafted plated from 2015-2024 is a massive 300+ players who should not make this argument. Brian wasn’t a GM from 2015,2016,2017 why is he being graded as such??

Now if these idiots nice people assigned draft value “points” such as Draftek? Ok I kinda see that. Then those nice people toss the players who either sat or missed extensive time to injury etc? Ok I’m there.


But for sake of comparing Brian. Let’s go ahead and play this exercise. Use years he wasn’t GM. Name the teams from 2015 to 2022 who Drafted a QB in Round 1 and how many of that group (because it absolutely goes into your formula) sat their QB for 3 years (or more). There’s DOZENs of QB’s drafted In Round 1 across the league so this should be an extensive list across almost all teams that are in the production formula.
1. Jordan Love

@Sunshinepacker
Certainly that formula extracts those seasons Drafted players did not play or barely played to injury. I mean they’d have to right?

Did they grade Jordan Morgan for 1 contest? Did they grade Marshawn Lloyd because he didn’t finish 1 quarter of 1 game. Is he in this production formula?

Let’s just watch 2025 and see who has the best drafted players. We’re all pretty good at picking out the really good players without help from some random graded list that includes players who are at home injured. Id rather you guys collectively let me know as the season transpires. I trust you guys as a group more than 75% of the chopped up draft driven grades.

And yet! As I showed, there are MULTIPLE teams that commonly have late draft picks and are far better in those early rounds than the Packers. Going back to the research I did, the Bills are actually the best team in the league at adding value in the first three rounds. Chiefs are 4th, Ravens are 5th, and Eagles are 6th. Remember, Gute is 27th. Notice that the teams that are good at drafting late are team are perennial Super Bowl contenders while the Packers are very good but lack the elite players needed to beat other elite teams.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Season records with Gutekunst as the GM

2018 - 6-9-1 (He inherited a team that was cap strapped and facing an uncertain future. It's hard to blame that record on him
2019 - 13-3
2020 - 13-3
2021 - 13-4
2022 - 8-9
2023 - 9-8
2024 - 11-6

That's 73-42-1 for a .634 clip. Throw out the 6-9-1 which wasn't on him and we're talking 67-33-0. That's a .670 clip.

Over the last 30 years, this is the records

TEAM	W%	GP	W	L	T	TD	PTS	PPG	OPP PTS	OPP PPG	1DWN	3DWN%	4DWN%
1		Patriots	.649	484	314	170	0	1,378	12,117	25.0	9,323	19.3	10,056	40.7	53.1
2		Packers	.636	484	307	175	2	1,438	12,296	25.4	10,066	20.8	9,875	42.1	49.7
3		Steelers	.623	484	300	181	3	1,192	10,835	22.4	9,148	18.9	9,484	41.1	47.5
4		Chiefs	.585	484	283	201	0	1,314	11,403	23.6	10,217	21.1	9,770	39.8	52.6
5		Ravens	.574	468	268	199	1	1,158	10,673	22.8	8,899	19.0	9,060	39.0	51.2
6		Eagles	.573	484	276	205	3	1,289	11,324	23.4	10,202	21.1	9,643	39.4	53.6
7		Colts	.569	484	275	208	1	1,308	11,612	24.0	10,941	22.6	9,982	41.8	55.0
8		Broncos	.558	484	270	214	0	1,274	11,312	23.4	10,329	21.3	9,809	38.8	50.0
9		Seahawks	.557	484	269	214	1	1,263	11,090	22.9	10,201	21.1	9,309	37.6	49.0
10		Vikings	.550	484	265	217	2	1,304	11,331	23.4	10,763	22.2	9,545	40.6	51.0
11		Cowboys	.543	484	263	221	0	1,254	11,144	23.0	10,277	21.2	9,636	40.2	51.7
12		Saints	.517	484	250	234	0	1,348	11,567	23.9	11,002	22.7	9,806	41.7	50.4
13		49ers	.511	484	247	236	1	1,224	10,862	22.4	10,492	21.7	9,205	38.1	51.2
14		Bills	.507	483	245	238	0	1,165	10,417	21.6	10,289	21.3	9,098	37.8	48.4
15		Titans	.502	484	243	241	0	1,164	10,406	21.5	10,733	22.2	8,896	38.8	47.0
16		Dolphins	.498	484	241	243	0	1,121	10,061	20.8	10,386	21.5	9,000	37.3	48.8
17		Chargers	.492	484	238	246	0	1,258	11,103	22.9	10,710	22.1	9,587	40.7	51.6
18		Falcons	.487	484	235	248	1	1,190	10,738	22.2	11,176	23.1	9,555	40.7	49.7
19		Buccaneers	.477	484	231	253	0	1,135	10,085	20.8	10,216	21.1	9,043	39.0	49.6
20		Rams	.468	484	226	257	1	1,169	10,513	21.7	11,205	23.2	9,226	37.7	50.9
21		Giants	.461	484	222	260	2	1,105	9,911	20.5	10,714	22.1	9,107	36.4	45.5
22		Bengals	.455	483	218	261	4	1,173	10,280	21.3	11,106	23.0	9,273	39.0	49.0
23		Panthers	.454	484	219	264	1	1,109	10,026	20.7	10,698	22.1	8,929	37.5	47.5
24		Bears	.446	484	216	268	0	1,067	9,642	19.9	10,449	21.6	8,693	35.6	48.4
25		Texans	.437	372	162	209	1	846	7,710	20.7	8,593	23.1	7,025	37.8	51.2

I think it's safe to say that the Packers have found consistency in winning seasons even though they haven't racked up a lot of Super Bowl wins. Arguing that anyone outside of the Patriots has done a better job of consistently winning would be a foolish argument.

So what seasons are being used for the other teams? I get that you put up all the win/loss record for Gute (we should probably just throw out all the Rodgers years to truly gauge Gute's ability to build a team) but what seasons are these other win/loss records from?

 

[Voyageur]

So what seasons are being used for the other teams? I get that you put up all the win/loss record for Gute (we should probably just throw out all the Rodgers years to truly gauge Gute's ability to build a team) but what seasons are these other win/loss records from?

All comparisons are for all teams in the NFL across the entire spectrum. There was no cherry picking. Why would you even think there was?

Seven years is the last 7-years. Thirty years is the last 30-years. All teams included.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

All comparisons are for all teams in the NFL across the entire spectrum. There was no cherry picking. Why would you even think there was?

Seven years is the last 7-years. Thirty years is the last 30-years. All teams included.

Because I read it wrong. I was looking at the table and just assumed that the Packers winning percent in that table was the same .670 you mentioned over Gute's time here (minus his worst season) and then assumed the rest of the teams couldn't be over that same time frame because the Pats were #1.

 

[Voyageur]

Because I read it wrong. I was looking at the table and just assumed that the Packers winning percent in that table was the same .670 you mentioned over Gute's time here (minus his worst season) and then assumed the rest of the teams couldn't be over that same time frame because the Pats were #1.

I gave the total 7-year comparison of all QBs and showed the 6-year figure as a secondary indicator but not as a comparison to the rest of the league. The large table is all teams for 30 years, regardless of coaches, GMs, etc, to show the consistency of the franchise in establishing winning seasons.

 

[OldSchool101]

I couldn't sleep, so I watched the video of Family Night. Van Ness just manhandled Morgan at left tackle all night long; if this had been real, he probably would have sacked Love at least twice, and one would have been a really hard hit. Morgan was just in over his head at left tackle; Van Ness was just walking him back. He looks a lot stronger than last year, and more aggressive. I thought I saw a bit of a mean streak that I don't recall noticing before.

Cooper was a monster. He looks significantly stronger and faster than last year, and obviously more sure of himself. He was just launching himself off the ball, with incredible burst. Several times, he was in the backfield before his man really had time to set himself, and he made Tom look silly on one of those damned jet sweeps where he just blew past him on the outside and stopped Golden in the backfield. He also stuffed a run over right guard by cleanly beating Jenkins, and forcing Jacobs to reverse field rather than get tackled for a loss.

He's going to have a very big sophomore season. He was just dominant out there.

Malik Heath had some circus catches, as always, and Barryn Sorrel really had some great reps. In a 1v1, 250 pound Sorrel just literally bulldozed all 335 pounds of Anthony Belton - bullrushed him, pushed him back a good 5 yards; Belton kept trying plant his feet and establish a base, but in the end just gave up and slid backwards like he was on ice. Sorrel's strength was incredible; I don't think Belton knew what hit him. He was completely overmatched on that rep. I don't see how Sorrel fails to make the final 53.

They matched up Golden with Melton on a number of reps, and Melton held his own. He went stride for stride with Golden on a go route and defended the pass. He did not look like a man who hadn't played CB since high school.

This was the defense's night, from what I saw. As good as our playmakers are on offense, the D was better. Year Two of the Hafley Era looks like it's going to be exciting.

See. This is the kinda stuff that I rely more on. Eye witness accounts in real time from someone who has watched football for decades. Thank you.

 

[tynimiller]

FTR @Thirteen Below is absolutely right about something many with a football eye noticed that to me was the #1 takeaway from Family Night - Melton looked the part at CB mirroring receivers. This transition of positions won't happen overnight, but watch out folks, he looks much more the part than many suspected he would...and could be working towards this being the crucial part to having him make the 53.

 

[OldSchool101]

And yet! As I showed, there are MULTIPLE teams that commonly have late draft picks and are far better in those early rounds than the Packers. Going back to the research I did, the Bills are actually the best team in the league at adding value in the first three rounds. Chiefs are 4th, Ravens are 5th, and Eagles are 6th. Remember, Gute is 27th. Notice that the teams that are good at drafting late are team are perennial Super Bowl contenders while the Packers are very good but lack the elite players needed to beat other elite teams.

Heck we have later draft picks that are better than our earlier rounds. Again it’s such a blanket slight. I don’t think we missed with
J’aire Alexander 2018 RD1
Rashan Gary 2019 RD1
Elgton Jenkins 2019 RD2
Jordan Love 2020 RD1

I think 2021 was a miss with Erik Stokes and Josh Myers. However isn’t it a just a surprise that both were selected 3 picks from last in their Rounds. These weren’t a #7 overall and #38 overall selections. They were bordering on early RD2 and early RD3 guys. That should be factored and I’d be much more critical of each were Top 10-15 in their Rounds.

In 2022 we stuck it. Quay Walker, Wyatt, Watson, Rhyan and Doubs all the way into RD4. That might not be any singular Elite player, but it’s 6 straight above average + level Starters. That not an easy task at all. It basically evened out 2021 misses.

2023 is probably the last true class we can even properly evaluate. 1 Rookie season doesn’t properly evaluate Davante Adams etc..it took him year 3.

The only real Day 1 miss across those 6 drafts was Stokes. We can argue about Savage being a miss. I think he was borderline.

The other point is how the Packers specifically are like Iowa. They play their veterans more and make young players earn their way into the lineup gradually. Many teams would toss Jordan Love to the Wolves. We saw what game 1 looked like K.C. Is that how he’s graded pushed across 3 seasons? I think its extremely unfair.

IMO 2025 will begin to give us a better indicator. Im not unfairiy judging Brian on 2024 or 2025 just yet as a Top 5 GM If Cooper hits. He really has had 6 drafts that are reasonably gradable and 2021 was his only miss imo. if I were trying to be judicial? (I factor QB heavy) I’d grade Brian at #8-10 on his full draft picture and that’s really all that matters.

 

[Voyageur]

Over the years, I've been skeptical about what I see in training camp and even more so with what I hear. When I see that Sam Brown was cut and Heath is still there, and there was nothing but raves about Sam's play leading up to the scrimmage I know camp hype isn't too reliable. But when you watch the scrimmage and see the play of guys like Van Ness and Melton, you see something worth discussing. Both seem to be hitting their marks during camp.

Still, I'm going to watch to see how everything plays out through the 3 preseason games. I'm just not certain what the Packers brain trust has in mind.

 

[Voyageur]

Heck we have later draft picks that are better than our earlier rounds. Again it’s such a blanket slight. I don’t think we missed with
J’aire Alexander 2018 RD1
Rashan Gary 2019 RD1
Elgton Jenkins 2019 RD2
Jordan Love 2020 RD1

I think 2021 was a miss with Erik Stokes and Josh Myers. However isn’t it a just a surprise that both were selected 3 picks from last in their Rounds. These weren’t a #7 overall and #38 overall selections. They were bordering on early RD2 and early RD3 guys. That should be factored and I’d be much more critical of each were Top 10-15 in their Rounds.

In 2022 we stuck it. Quay Walker, Wyatt, Watson, Rhyan and Doubs all the way into RD4. That might not be any singular Elite player, but it’s 6 straight above average + level Starters. That not an easy task at all. It basically evened out 2021 misses.

2023 is probably the last true class we can even properly evaluate. 1 Rookie season doesn’t properly evaluate Davante Adams etc..it took him year 3.

The only real Day 1 miss across those 6 drafts was Stokes. We can argue about Savage being a miss. I think he was borderline.

The other point is how the Packers specifically are like Iowa. They play their veterans more and make young players earn their way into the lineup gradually. Many teams would toss Jordan Love to the Wolves. We saw what game 1 looked like K.C. Is that how he’s graded pushed across 3 seasons? I think
That extremely unfair.

If the Packers are not drafting as good as they should in the early rounds, they must be drafting over their heads after that. You don't ring up one winning season after another if the guys you're grabbing aren't as good as they should be according to individual player analysis.

Draft picks are subjective and the Packers method of drafting works. If it means they get the best in rounds 4 through 7, I'm all for it as long as they can be in the hunt for a Lombardi trophy when the regular season ends.

Your evaluation of the picks is spot on. The Packers draft with growth in mind not looking for instant success because that's not a good formula to follow in the NFL.

 

[OldSchool101]

If the Packers are not drafting as good as they should in the early rounds, they must be drafting over their heads after that. You don't ring up one winning season after another if the guys you're grabbing aren't as good as they should be according to individual player analysis.

Draft picks are subjective and the Packers method of drafting works. If it means they get the best in rounds 4 through 7, I'm all for it as long as they can be in the hunt for a Lombardi trophy when the regular season ends.

Your evaluation of the picks is spot on. The Packers draft with growth in mind not looking for instant success because that's not a good formula to follow in the NFL.

This. Plus I’m not suggesting I think Gute can’t do better in RD1,2,3. What I think we’re seeing is his better draft classes 2022,2023,2024 entering their formidable years where they start to play without thinking too much. I’ll admit last year was stagnant. However we did see a new DC and system and that takes a minute and the guys themselves said that in interviews. Now we’re drafting and signing players that fit this scheme. I guess what I’m saying is that 2025,2026 are really big expectations for growth as continuity stabilizers

 

[gopkrs]

We seem to always be drafting players to fit schemes or to get better later on. Not sure that's a good idea in the first two days.

 

[tynimiller]

We seem to always be drafting players to fit schemes or to get better later on. Not sure that's a good idea in the first two days.

Hang on...if this was true this wouldn't be:

2024 Draft Class...Morgan was splitting time from the jump essentially a split starter at guard immediately week 1....Cooper we all know the story injury stalled and then once unleashed balled out rookie year.....Javon Bullard started 11 games his first year, including week1....Evan Williams again couldn't be kept off the field eventually and was incredible his rookie year (started 6 contests but saw over 65% of defensive snaps in 3 games he didn't start)....

2023 Class....LVN saw over 30% of game snaps his rookie year 10 times, Luke Musgrave started 9 of his first 10 games his rookie year and then was injured, Reed started all but two contests rookie year and set rookie receiving records for the team....Kraft started 8 contests his rookie year and closed out the final 7 contests with 344 yards production along with 2 TDs....

2022 Class....Quay day 1 starter....Wyatt year 1 saw him close out year 1 with three games over 48% of snaps....Watson started his first game of his rookie year and put up over 600 yards year one on list him as a starter 11 times....Sean Rhyan was unable to play rookie year essentially.

2021 Class....Stokes started year 1....Myers same until hurt and came back final week as starter....Amari Rodgers didn't see much year 1.

2020 Class....Love was clearly picked for future....Dillon year 1 didn't see a ton...Deguara was week 1 starter but then injured.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah ok Tyni. I don't disagree with you, but I am not so apt to say, like you, that such and such a piayer started or played a lot and so was a successful pick. Maybe they were drafting for need and there just wasn't anybody else very good.

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah ok Tyni. I don't disagree with you, but I am not so apt to say, like you, that such and such a piayer started or played a lot and so was a successful pick. Maybe they were drafting for need and there just wasn't anybody else very good.

Now I made no declarations, but merely illustrated defense against a claim is all.

To a degree as hard as it is to even make it in the NFL, if a pick gives you playing time year 1 they likely by no chance are a JAG…and if starting there is very low likelihood that they should be consider not a success to some degree.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Heck we have later draft picks that are better than our earlier rounds. Again it’s such a blanket slight. I don’t think we missed with
J’aire Alexander 2018 RD1
Rashan Gary 2019 RD1
Elgton Jenkins 2019 RD2
Jordan Love 2020 RD1

I think 2021 was a miss with Erik Stokes and Josh Myers. However isn’t it a just a surprise that both were selected 3 picks from last in their Rounds. These weren’t a #7 overall and #38 overall selections. They were bordering on early RD2 and early RD3 guys. That should be factored and I’d be much more critical of each were Top 10-15 in their Rounds.

In 2022 we stuck it. Quay Walker, Wyatt, Watson, Rhyan and Doubs all the way into RD4. That might not be any singular Elite player, but it’s 6 straight above average + level Starters. That not an easy task at all. It basically evened out 2021 misses.

2023 is probably the last true class we can even properly evaluate. 1 Rookie season doesn’t properly evaluate Davante Adams etc..it took him year 3.

The only real Day 1 miss across those 6 drafts was Stokes. We can argue about Savage being a miss. I think he was borderline.

The other point is how the Packers specifically are like Iowa. They play their veterans more and make young players earn their way into the lineup gradually. Many teams would toss Jordan Love to the Wolves. We saw what game 1 looked like K.C. Is that how he’s graded pushed across 3 seasons? I think its extremely unfair.

IMO 2025 will begin to give us a better indicator. Im not unfairiy judging Brian on 2024 or 2025 just yet as a Top 5 GM If Cooper hits. He really has had 6 drafts that are reasonably gradable and 2021 was his only miss imo. if I were trying to be judicial? (I factor QB heavy) I’d grade Brian at #8-10 on his full draft picture and that’s really all that matters.

Walker, for most of his time in Green Bay, has been a below average LB. He started to look starter worthy towards the end of last season but in no way has his play been worthy of a first round pick. Wyatt has been better than Walker but not an impact player that other forces other teams to account for him.

I’ve never said all of Gute’s early round picks are misses. I’m saying that they’ve underperformed other players typically chosen at their draft positions. Early round picks need to be impact players that other teams must account for. Alexander and Love have been the only first round picks that meet that definition (Gary has never quite gotten to that point). Your point about 2021 conveniently leaves out that the best center in the league was drafted one spot after the Packers took Myers.

 

[Thirteen Below]

FTR @Thirteen Below is absolutely right about something many with a football eye noticed that to me was the #1 takeaway from Family Night - Melton looked the part at CB mirroring receivers. This transition of positions won't happen overnight, but watch out folks, he looks much more the part than many suspected he would...and could be working towards this being the crucial part to having him make the 53.

Thank you.

He's apparently talking with his kid brother every chance he gets, pumping him for advice. He said his brother is giving him tons of tips and suggestions, and I think with his years of experience playing WR plus his 9.24 RAS, he's able to understand that advice and quickly implement it.

IMO 2025 will begin to give us a better indicator. Im not unfairiy judging Brian on 2024 or 2025 just yet as a Top 5 GM If Cooper hits. He really has had 6 drafts that are reasonably gradable and 2021 was his only miss imo. if I were trying to be judicial? (I factor QB heavy) I’d grade Brian at #8-10 on his full draft picture and that’s really all that matters.

Honestly, I'm not even grading 24 or 25 in my assessments; the only grade I could reasonably give them is INC. You can't assign a grade until the results are in, and in fact, even any grade you give to 23 at this point has to be with an asterisk. The best we can say at the start of 25 is that all three drafts show encouraging early signs, and by the end of this season we should be closer to some answers - especially on 23.

The only real Day 1 miss across those 6 drafts was Stokes. We can argue about Savage being a miss. I think he was borderline.

I wouldn't call Stokes a miss at all - in fact, I'd call it an A. You can't judge how well Gute did on a pick if the guy is injured; you can only judge the pick on the basis of how he performed when he was on the field. Gute could never have foreseen that he would be injured.

In his rookie year, his QB rating against was 79, and his completion rate was 46% - the 5th best of all cornerbacks in the NFL. Among all rookie DBs, he was first in forced incompletions and pass break ups. That's a remarkable showing for a rookie.

In fact, his rookie stats were comparable to (in some cases, better than) Jaire's first season. Before he got hurt, that was an outstanding pick at #29. I think the worst that we can say about him was that he was a push.

Your evaluation of the picks is spot on. The Packers draft with growth in mind not looking for instant success because that's not a good formula to follow in the NFL.

I completely support Green Bay's template, because the results over the last 30 years speak for themselves. But I think we have to recognize that it's not with a cost - if a player takes 2 or even 3 year to fully develop, when the time come to either extend him or let him walk, we sometimes have to make a tough decision on the basis of incomplete information. And the more of those guys you have on your roster, the more difficult choices a GM has to make.

I think Gute does a very good job at making those calls, but it does make his job harder. And, it is a little frustrating to have to keep letting guys go before they hit their peak years. I know other teams face the same problem, and I really don't know if it's worse for us or better than other teams, so I may be off base here. It just feels like it happens too often.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Walker, for most of his time in Green Bay, has been a below average LB. He started to look starter worthy towards the end of last season but in no way has his play been worthy of a first round pick. Wyatt has been better than Walker but not an impact player that other forces other teams to account for him.

I've had the same general opinion of Walker almost his entire time here; he's been a wild card right from the beginning. But in some respects, I think his play has improved each year. I respect that he has worked hard and listened to his coaches; Lafleur has personally invested a lot of effort in him. I recall a number of times seeing Matt go up to him on the sideline after he came off the field, and speak earnestly to him, like a father.

And Walked has significantly and steadily cleaned up his penalties, improved his play recognition and reaction times, and his run defense and pass defense have both improved.

As last season went on, I more and more felt that he and Cooper both made each other better. I think they complement each other very well. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do together in Year Two of Hafley.

 

[tynimiller]

I've had the same general opinion of Walker almost his entire time here; he's been a wild card right from the beginning. But in some respects, I think his play has improved each year. I respect that he has worked hard and listened to his coaches; Lafleur has personally invested a lot of effort in him. I recall a number of times seeing Matt go up to him on the sideline after he came off the field, and speak earnestly to him, like a father.

And Walked has significantly and steadily cleaned up his penalties, improved his play recognition and reaction times, and his run defense and pass defense have both improved.

As last season went on, I more and more felt that he and Cooper both made each other better. I think they complement each other very well. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do together in Year Two of Hafley.

Cooper and in a similar smaller vein McDuffie (consistent but not high level) have made Quay a better LB…I think Quay like you stated has increased his play each season. There is a world where he and Cooper could play like one of the best tandems in the league.

 

[OldSchool101]

Your point about 2021 conveniently leaves out that the best center in the league was drafted one spot after the Packers took Myers.

I think you might’ve misinterpreted me there. When I say 2021 is Gutes only
“miss” draft class that’s NOT s compliment. Not sure how you interpreted that I thought Myers was better than another great Creed. I never said anything about Myers except that we missed on him. It’s like you’re swinging wild to disprove me on the one thing we agreed on. Again, this stuff just shows a certain disposition, which while there maybe some shreds if truth intertwined, they are then twisted to try to promote those teams who really don’t deserve it. In doing so they either intentionally or not misrepresent the facts imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

Doing this for the 2019 -2023 draft classes (only looking at rounds 1-3) shows that Gute has been the sixth WORST at drafting valuable players with the selections that he has used.

I never asked you @Sunshinepacker. Could you copy a list of the best drafting teams on that list? Maybe the Best 6 (based on that same criteria). I’m just curious which teams made the Drafting Dean’s list. Maybe 2018-2023 etc. if that possible? I wont flip it to debate I’m more interested on which teams who are elite draft grades are successful or not.

 

[Voyageur]

Your evaluation of the picks is spot on. The Packers draft with growth in mind not looking for instant success because that's not a good formula to follow in the NFL.

I completely support Green Bay's template, because the results over the last 30 years speak for themselves. But I think we have to recognize that it's not with a cost - if a player takes 2 or even 3 year to fully develop, when the time come to either extend him or let him walk, we sometimes have to make a tough decision on the basis of incomplete information. And the more of those guys you have on your roster, the more difficult choices a GM has to make.

I think Gute does a very good job at making those calls, but it does make his job harder. And, it is a little frustrating to have to keep letting guys go before they hit their peak years. I know other teams face the same problem, and I really don't know if it's worse for us or better than other teams, so I may be off base here. It just feels like it happens too often.

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It does create a problem when they reach the point of second contract. No doubt about it. But there has been some consolation for it. Gute has had seasons where they've owned 10 or 11 picks because of compensation and that gave them some additional reach when it came to drafting. It still has to be a nightmare from the perspective of the Packers front office as to who is most needed with an extension.

On the positive side of that issue is the fact that you have more guys who are on first contracts which are less costly across the board so the extensions for top level players becomes somewhat easier to initiate.

the next off season is going to demonstrate exactly what you're talking about. We have a lot of quality players who will be lost through free agency if new deals can't be made and the cap room won't allow them to be extended.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I never asked you @Sunshinepacker. Could you copy a list of the best drafting teams on that list? Maybe the Best 6 (based on that same criteria). I’m just curious which teams made the Drafting Dean’s list. Maybe 2018-2023 etc. if that possible? I wont flip it to debate I’m more interested on which teams who are elite draft grades are successful or not.

Be happy to! From best to sixth: Buffalo, Bucs, Baltimore, KC, Pitt, Cincinnati. Teams that draft well tend to perform well on the field. The draft isn’t the only thing though, coaching matters, free agency matters, and injuries matter. I realize you’re attempting to be snide with your comments so I’ll point out that I’m doing my best to back up my opinion with actual reasons. I’m perfectly willing to change my mind if someone gave me some factual data to the contrary. So far I’ve seen nothing from you to back up your opinion that he’s terrific at drafting elite players. Maybe you’ll give me your list of elite players he’s drafted in his time here? Cause I’d put the list at Alexander, potentially Love, Zach Tom (why does it feel like you have to use an olineman’s full name?) and (hopefully) Cooper.