Packers Roster Assessment, 2025 Off-Season

[tynimiller]

This is misinformation. Might want to relook at that.

Mecole had 353 All purpose yards and 2 TD’s across the 2023-2024. That after wasting time on a dysfunctional Jets team for part of a season and then KC spending a draft pick to get him back. You excluded him contributions Running and Playoffs and that’s 100% part of a WRs role. Thats 8.83 yards per touch for Mecole including anything not related to Teams.

Mecole played in exactly 28 contests across 2023-2024 as a WR. His playoffs he posted 5/7 for 62 yards and the Super Bowl Winning TD IN January 2024, not 5 years ago college ball. No body cares what these guys did 3-5 years ago in college. This is a what have you done for me lately league. Ask Isaiah Simmons he’s a college hero, but you’ve got to perform at this level and consistently or you’ll get run out of the league.

Malik played in exactly 27 contests so almost identical to Mecole as a pure WR. His postseason numbers?
0/4 0 yards. Malik probably wouldn’t make 30 NFL Rosters as a WR6. He’s PS level until he proves otherwise. He also has absolutely zero Teams value. He had 3 Tackles across 2 seasons and 130 Teams snaps. That very forgettable imo.
I wish him the best, I have nothing against him personally, but he’s proven very little to earn a Roster spot

That isn't misinformation? Misinformation would be if I stated all purpose yards and didn't include his rushing totals. Apologies not including his limited "rush attempts". I was speaking to their receiving offerings of course and didn't bring in playoffs as that causes disparity I think between players unless identical chances, BUT Mecole does have playoff experience absolutely.

IF Mecole was as clutch and good as you claim - there is ZERO business he took a scrap pile contract with us....C'Mon it's okay to believe he is most likely of the three, its' okay IMO to even be a fan of a guy that most isn't - but let's be realistic though.

I just don't see anything route wise for Mecole to make me want to eat up a spot on a roster with him...now returner bonus is a real thing, also I wonder if Jet Sweep option isn't there too with him.

In the end though we are not a better WR room because he is in it IMO...but that doesn't mean we aren't a better team perhaps depending on what he wins elsewhere.

 

[tynimiller]

Nixon stated he didn't want to handle kickoffs after fumbling the opener against Philly in the playoffs... he's now onboard, again, to handling kickoffs.

Reed had the majority of punt returns in '23 & '24... and was a safe receiver but didn't provide any sparks. GB is definitely looking for an upgrade. OTA's showed Reed, Hardman, & Golden fielding punts. I'm hopeful that Golden provides safe AND productive punt returns, otherwise it'll be Hardman's job to lose.

IF Golden is even half the future WR everyone is hoping I don't want him doing Punts....let the older veteran who has no place high on WR depth charts but is oober athletic trying to play his way into a better contract after the year return kicks....AKA Mecole - if he makes the team.

 

[OldSchool101]

Nixon stated he didn't want to handle kickoffs after fumbling the opener against Philly in the playoffs... he's now onboard, again, to handling kickoffs.

Reed had the majority of punt returns in '23 & '24... and was a safe receiver but didn't provide any sparks. GB is definitely looking for an upgrade. OTA's showed Reed, Hardman, & Golden fielding punts. I'm hopeful that Golden provides safe AND productive punt returns, otherwise it'll be Hardman's job to lose.

I agree. I know our staff sometimes likes to press using a starting WR to handle Returns. However several things have evolved. First when we walked JA Nixon solidified his role as a starting Perimeter CB. He did a good job overall after switching roles from the Slot role. Our depth at Perimeter CB is currently our weakest link imo. Unless we have plans to bring someone in idk. I would not have Nixon or Valentine fielding KR, I think it’s bordering on irresponsible unless we bring in another Veteran CB.

The KR rule changes to spot a Touchback at the 35 yard line. It’s essentially a 5 yard penalty off last years 30 yard spot. The best teams last year were in that ~32 yard average start position.

My guess is we will see more Kicks aiming for the 2-4 yard line. The average KR in 2024 was 27.6 yards. The leader All Pro-1 was 33 yards. Dropping a KO at the 2-3 yard line is ideal. It’s a -5 yard statistical advantage. That infers that the number of Returns will increase and with it, the number of potential injuries.

 

[Pkrjones]

IF Golden is even half the future WR everyone is hoping I don't want him doing Punts....let the older veteran who has no place high on WR depth charts but is oober athletic trying to play his way into a better contract after the year return kicks....AKA Mecole - if he makes the team.

Reed was GB's top receiver (# receptions) in both '23 & '24... why did MLF have HIM back there catching punts?

I'd actually prefer Savion Williams, as he's electric with ball in his hands, big enough to handle a hard tackle or 3, and will most likely be on the final roster due to draft position.

 

[tynimiller]

Reed was GB's top receiver (# receptions) in both '23 & '24... why did MLF have HIM back there catching punts?

I'd actually prefer Savion Williams, as he's electric with ball in his gands, big enough to handle a hard tackle or 3, and will most likely be on the final roster due to draft position.

I can't answer that for MLF, I've always strongly opposed using a main offensive contributor or even a defensive starter as returner.

 

[Pkrjones]

I can understand not wanting to risk a starter to return duties, but numerous GB coaches have done so over the years.
- DB Mark Lee 1980-1990
- WR Antonio Freeman 1995-2003
- WR Javon Walker 2002-2005
- DB Charles Woodson 2006-2012
- WR Randall Cobb 2011-2022
- DB Micah Hyde 2013-2016
- CB Nixon 2022-Present

 

[tynimiller]

I know it has.

 

[gopkrs]

Just reading how Golden will probably be very good at jet sweeps. I really hope they don't have him or Watson run that play. It is not necessary for either of them to run it in order for the offense to be good. They are too valuable to be involved in that trainwreck of a play

 

[OldSchool101]

In the end though we are not a better WR room because he is in it IMO...but that doesn't mean we aren't a better team perhaps depending on what he wins elsewhere.

I think you’re getting a little too picky for a 6th guy. If we’re pinning him down to making significant contributions as a WR, we’re in big trouble imo. That means at minimum 2-3 WR’s ahead of him would have to be out just to put him as a solid rotational level guy.
It’s far more likely that 6th guy is playing the bulk of his time on Teams. As we’ve both pointed out. So really this argument comes down to who’s better on Teams? Bo? Mecole? Or Heath?

The one thing I don’t think anyone counted on was Matthew Golden falling to our natural selection. Golden is going to make it tough because he can fill so many different roles. Then Gute obviously had Savion on his radar because we passed up several good CB’s and DL there in RD3. When Savion fell into our lap? Everyone in that WR room short of Reed, Doubs and Wicks were put on notice.

 

[OldSchool101]

I can understand not wanting to risk a starter to return duties, but numerous GB coaches have done so over the years.
- DB Mark Lee 1980-1990
- WR Antonio Freeman 1995-2003
- WR Javon Walker 2002-2005
- DB Charles Woodson 2006-2012
- WR Randall Cobb 2011-2022
- DB Micah Hyde 2013-2016
- CB Nixon 2022-Present

Yes. However dug a little deeper and what you’ll also notice is several of that list only did it sparingly.

Mark Lee returned 66 punts and Kickoffs across a 12 year career. That’s 5 returns per season. He really was never a permanent solution outside of 1 season for either PR/KR

Woodson was only a PR.. he didn’t return Kickoffs. Plus he only was a PR for 2 of his 5 seasons in GB and across 17 seasons he only returned more than 4 punts in 2 of those seasons 2/17

Antonio Freeman played PR in 1 of 9 seasons. In the other 8 seasons he never returned more than 2 punts
1/9

Cobby was regular in his 1st 2 seasons. Past that he never had a season returning more than 14 Punts across a season. The next closest was 7 PR in season 4. Past 2014 he was nothing more than spot duty.

There’s a theme here. Walker they’d tried that PR in his Rookie season only. The second we realized what we had, he never played that role again across the next 7 years.
1/8


There’s nothing wrong with a Starter fielding Punts or Kickoffs in general, that’s never been my argument at all. There are seasons it’s even out of pure necessity, I get that. Thats not this season though we have a Bonafide Return guy and he’s fighting his tail off to earn a spot. It could be a much worse problem than deciding on Hardman to assume that role.

Nixons was our natural solution but he proved to be too darn good at CB, the guy can ball. We can’t get stuck in our past comfort zone, great teams evolve. Nixon now has more value as a starting Perimeter CB while covering WR1 or WR2 that’s like a gift wrapped and tied with a Bow Its not a bad problem its a good problem we have if we play our cards right. 2025 presents an issue in CB depth and we don’t have much known quantity depth at outside Corner. At least nobody I’d hang my hat on.

That’s my argument for keeping a Pure Return guy at WR. It’s not as much as I’m in love with Mecole as I’m in love with his profile fits perfect in that role at a time that’s it a need. Truthfully he reminds me a little of the move we made in 1996 with Desmond. Both drafted high. Both talented in their narrow scope. Both natural Return specialists who possess true breakaway speed and good vision. Both have some swagger. I mean maybe Howard is a little better Dancer, but who cares I’ll show up and do the robot for everyone if he scores I’m kinda geeky

 

[gopkrs]

Why doesn't Tyreek Hill run back punts? It would be nice to have a good punt returner and Reed isn't it. He has more fair catches than anyone in the league I think. I would guess one of the relatively unknown DBs we have would be a candidate. If he can call a fair catch; it would not be that much different than what we have been doing. So why put a starter back there? It might be worth it if we looked for someone like Allen Rossum. A designated punt returner who could play some DB if he had to. Probably can't find that so someone who can fair catch the ball.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Is there any reason I'm overlooking that Bo can't take the role of return man? I mean, obviously they like something about him, and they're looking for reasons to keep him on the 53; if they're trying to find a way for him to kill two birds with one stone, why not see if he can kill three with one stone?

 

[tynimiller]

Is there any reason I'm overlooking that Bo can't take the role of return man? I mean, obviously they like something about him, and they're looking for reasons to keep him on the 53; if they're trying to find a way for him to kill two birds with one stone, why not see if he can kill three with one stone?

I'm not sure if they've ever tested him there. He has very small sample size from time at Rutgers, but does have some experience albeit small.

 

[OldSchool101]

Is there any reason I'm overlooking that Bo can't take the role of return man? I mean, obviously they like something about him, and they're looking for reasons to keep him on the 53; if they're trying to find a way for him to kill two birds with one stone, why not see if he can kill three with one stone?

While several guys can fair catch, at this juncture I’m not confident that Bo Melton can handle much of anything at CB. Maybe he’ll prove otherwise but as of now he’s a better WR than he is CB. Part of me feels bad for him because I know we really like him that’s obvious. If they kept Bo at WR6 I’d be ok with that and then he could take KR that’s more logical to me anyway.

IMO this whole switching to DB is kinda desperation mode if we’re honest with ourselves. I believe it’s because we want Hardman to stay and we’re just scrambling to find a spot for guys we’ve spent much effort developing (Heath/Melton). Both have had glimpses of success, but as we know, this is a tough business.
I’m compassionate to their development, but us Fans and Players alike need to be reminded that the initial roster is NOT the only road to playing time. There’s a handful of guys that pop on and off a roster each season. IMO Hardman would get snatched away between Heath, Melton and Mecole. That’s often the bet you have to make.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nixon stated he didn't want to handle kickoffs after fumbling the opener against Philly in the playoffs... he's now onboard, again, to handling kickoffs.

Reed had the majority of punt returns in '23 & '24... and was a safe receiver but didn't provide any sparks. GB is definitely looking for an upgrade. OTA's showed Reed, Hardman, & Golden fielding punts. I'm hopeful that Golden provides safe AND productive punt returns, otherwise it'll be Hardman's job to lose.

Yeah Nixon will be back on kickoffs, again. And that is certainly his best (All Pro) position in terms of contribution.

I've never been crazy about using Reed for PRs, but not sure who else would do it. Hardman certainly could do it, but Gluten won't give a roster spot to a PR, and I don't see him as a WR.

My guess is they'll see what Heath, Melton, and Hardman do in TC and the PS at various positions - Melton WR/CB, Hardman WR/PR, and Heath WR/maybe PR. Unless one of them just really catches fire, I can see all three being released. They should all clear waivers, and then Gluten and MLF can decide if they want to assign any of them to the PS.

You mentioned Golden as a possible PR. I hadn't thought about that. Did he return punts in college?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm not sure if they've ever tested him there. He has very small sample size from time at Rutgers, but does have some experience albeit small.

Hmmm - I suppose if Melton can play WR, PR, and occasional CB - all with consistency, he'd have a home on the 53.

 

[Voyageur]

Is there any reason I'm overlooking that Bo can't take the role of return man? I mean, obviously they like something about him, and they're looking for reasons to keep him on the 53; if they're trying to find a way for him to kill two birds with one stone, why not see if he can kill three with one stone?

If they do keep him, it will be because they see the potential as a return man as well as a deep sub in the WR group, especially in the long routes. That 4.3 speed he flashed at the combine is a significant factor. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they haven't kind of insinuated that to him to light a fire. That speed can be a game changer on returns. Playing some defense as well is an added bonus for making the roster.

 

[Pkrjones]

You mentioned Golden as a possible PR. I hadn't thought about that. Did he return punts in college?

Golden played 36 games in college, returned 28 kickoffs for 25.8yd average (& 2TD's!). No punt returns.
Savion Williams had 14 kickoff returns (all Freshman year) for 22.3 yd average, no punt returns.
Bo Melton had 11 kickoff returns in college with 26.6 yard average. 5 punt returns for 7.6 yd average.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Golden played 36 games in college, returned 28 kickoffs for 25.8yd average (& 2TD's!). No punt returns.
Savion Williams had 14 kickoff returns (all Freshman year) for 22.3 yd average, no punt returns.
Bo Melton had 11 kickoff returns in college with 26.6 yard average. 5 punt returns for 7.6 yd average.

Thank you Pkrjones, all very interesting stuff.

Melton might make the team as a "jack of all trades, master of none" - if he can provide meaningful snaps as a WR, CB, and PR he'll carve out a spot for himself.

At the NFL level it seems rare for a guy to play offense and defense. Plenty of guys playing on offense and defense also play on STs, but it's rare to have a WR also play CB, or vice versa. Gotta wonder why though. One good reason is avoiding injury. Where guys might have played O and D in HS and college, the speed of the NFL has its own certain demands. Playing both ways would be hard, unless it's a WR doing spot or depth duty at CB, for ex.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Thank you Pkrjones, all very interesting stuff.

Melton might make the team as a "jack of all trades, master of none" - if he can provide meaningful snaps as a WR, CB, and PR he'll carve out a spot for himself.

At the NFL level it seems rare for a guy to play offense and defense. Plenty of guys playing on offense and defense also play on STs, but it's rare to have a WR also play CB, or vice versa. Gotta wonder why though. One good reason is avoiding injury. Where guys might have played O and D in HS and college, the speed of the NFL has its own certain demands. Playing both ways would be hard, unless it's a WR doing spot or depth duty at CB, for ex.

I would say because of the time a player would need to spend both in the film room and focusing on practice situations. It's hard enough for ONE position, much less 2.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I would say because of the time a player would need to spend both in the film room and focusing on practice situations. It's hard enough for ONE position, much less 2.

Agreed. I'm certain film study is very intense at the NFL level. By trying to do too many things, a guy could end up being bad at all. And then the practice time required, as you note. Thanks for the insight.

 

[gopkrs]

Thank you Pkrjones, all very interesting stuff.

Melton might make the team as a "jack of all trades, master of none" - if he can provide meaningful snaps as a WR, CB, and PR he'll carve out a spot for himself.

At the NFL level it seems rare for a guy to play offense and defense. Plenty of guys playing on offense and defense also play on STs, but it's rare to have a WR also play CB, or vice versa. Gotta wonder why though. One good reason is avoiding injury. Where guys might have played O and D in HS and college, the speed of the NFL has its own certain demands. Playing both ways would be hard, unless it's a WR doing spot or depth duty at CB, for ex.

My preference would be for Melton to play and be good at corner and return punts. Though there is probably a reason he hasn't been returning punts. He clocked a great 40 time but every time I have watched him go deep, he does not get open by speed. And he's been disappointing as a receiver since the last half of the season when we got him.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed. I'm certain film study is very intense at the NFL level. By trying to do too many things, a guy could end up being bad at all. And then the practice time required, as you note. Thanks for the insight.

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Obviously I don’t play Pro football but I’ve seen people wear too many hats at work and it rarely works out.

 

[Heyjoe4]

My preference would be for Melton to play and be good at corner and return punts. Though there is probably a reason he hasn't been returning punts. He clocked a great 40 time but every time I have watched him go deep, he does not get open by speed. And he's been disappointing as a receiver since the last half of the season when we got him.

Yeah I think between Melton and Heath, Heath is the better route runner. But at their best, we're referencing guys who would be, at best, sixth on the WR depth chart. And that assumes there are 6 WRs on the 53.

I'm hoping Golden has a breakout rookie year, lighting a fire and setting some healthy competition with Reed, Doubs, and Wicks - and maybe Watson as well when he returns.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah I think between Melton and Heath, Heath is the better route runner. But at their best, we're referencing guys who would be, at best, sixth on the WR depth chart. And that assumes there are 6 WRs on the 53.

I'm hoping Golden has a breakout rookie year, lighting a fire and setting some healthy competition with Reed, Doubs, and Wicks - and maybe Watson as well when he returns.

I didn't refer to Heath. I only said I would rather Melton be a DB/punt returner than a receiver. At least that's what I meant to say. If he can't do that; I don't see a reason to keep him. imho