Packers Roster Assessment, 2025 Off-Season

[Voyageur]

My next personnel evaluation is Lukas Van Ness. I think the jury is still out on him. At this point, I don't see him reaching anywhere near the potential they seemed to see in him as a first round pick. This might be his year. If not, the contract he's in will be the only one he gets in Green Bay.

On the opposite side, Rashaun Gary. He flashes brilliance, then looks like he's a bumpkin who just learned how to spell the word football on the next play, or in the next game. Between them, I think it was 10 sacks last year. A good player at those positions could hit that mark alone. Their production isn't what we want to pressure QBs at this point. It's going to be an important year for both of them.

My next concern is the Elgton Jenkins holdout. The guy is a tackle, guard, and center. Now he's moving to center. He has a couple of years left on his contract and wants more money and a rewrite. He's holding out for it. His base salary is under $5 mill a year. Not a lot for a top tier center. But is he still a potential top tier center? We're going to find out. So, how much do the Packers invest in him? Elgton turns 30 this year, so how many years are actually left in the tank, and how will he hold up when it comes to injuries? This is a toughie no doubt about it. No matter what they do, it could backfire on them.

 

[Krabs]

My next personnel evaluation is Lukas Van Ness. I think the jury is still out on him. At this point, I don't see him reaching anywhere near the potential they seemed to see in him as a first round pick. This might be his year. If not, the contract he's in will be the only one he gets in Green Bay.

At this point I expected more out of him. Sure, he has time to develop and maybe he takes that next step. However, I think where he was taken, at least for me, I expected and instant impact getting after the QB. That has not happened. I just see an average player at best.

On the opposite side, Rashaun Gary. He flashes brilliance, then looks like he's a bumpkin who just learned how to spell the word football on the next play, or in the next game. Between them, I think it was 10 sacks last year. A good player at those positions could hit that mark alone. Their production isn't what we want to pressure QBs at this point. It's going to be an important year for both of them.

Same with Gary. He occasionally can get after the passer and makes a few plays. He's far from a game wrecker like I expected. He's a solid player. That's about it.

My next concern is the Elgton Jenkins holdout. The guy is a tackle, guard, and center. Now he's moving to center. He has a couple of years left on his contract and wants more money and a rewrite. He's holding out for it. His base salary is under $5 mill a year. Not a lot for a top tier center. But is he still a potential top tier center? We're going to find out. So, how much do the Packers invest in him? Elgton turns 30 this year, so how many years are actually left in the tank, and how will he hold up when it comes to injuries? This is a toughie no doubt about it. No matter what they do, it could backfire on them.

I don't know what this dudes deal is. He really hasn't earned more money. He is a great player but just re-signed not that long ago. To your point, I'm not in favor of giving him more money at 30 years old. My thoughts have always been that you try not to give a 3rd contract to lineman.

 

[n4t]

I think its harder to evaluate DEs under Halfley. I believe he emphasizes setting the edge and controlling the run before rushing the passer. This isn't the 'Florida State' defense where the DE pins his ears back and goes for it.

Given the Packers run defense history and the prevalence of running QBs we face, this is probably a sound strategy.

Do you sack Jalen Hurts or do you contain him in the pocket and disallow his running?

Elgton Jenkins is not a standard case. I think you give him something. We are dependent on him right now and I would like the man to be happy and motivated to become a pro-bowl center.

 

[Pkrjones]

Jenkins has already pocketed 55% of his contract extension. He's due a base salary of $11.7mil in '25, & a base salary of $18.5mil in '26. Jenkins knows he won't be playing at $18.5mil next year and wants reassurance that he won't be a cap casualty.

I could see a 1yr/$5.8mil extension with some of his '25 & '26 base salaries converted to bonuses. Would reduce his cap #'s to $16mil/yr thru '27, put more $ in his pocket now, & keep him on the roster thru '27 season.

If he wants more then I REALLY hope Rhyan or Monk are ready to excel at OC.

 

[gopkrs]

Jenkins has already pocketed 55% of his contract extension. He's due a base salary of $11.7mil in '25, & a base salary of $18.5mil in '26. Jenkins knows he won't be playing at $18.5mil next year and wants reassurance that he won't be a cap casualty.

I could see a 1yr/$5.8mil extension with some of his '25 & '26 base salaries converted to bonuses. Would reduce his cap #'s to $16mil/yr thru '27, put more $ in his pocket now, & keep him on the roster thru '27 season.

If he wants more then I REALLY hope Rhyan or Monk are ready to excel at OC.

I'm not going to pretend to really understand this. But if we don't want him at 18 1/2 million; why would we want him at 16 and then an additional year? We'd be creating dead money wouldn't we? Why not just wait him out? I mean, where can he go?

 

[Pkrjones]

I was using his base salary #'s, his salary cap #'s are actually $17.6mil in '25 & $24.8mil in '26. The extension I "suggested" would drop his salary cap # to $16mil/yr, saving GB $1.6mol in '25, and $8.8mil in '26. Jenkins is still a very good player, probably NOT worth $16mil cap #, definitely not worth $24.8mil. My suggestion was to keep him around thru '27 at a marginally palatable cost.

Gute may still prefer cutting him in '26, saving $20mil on the cap, & moving forward with younger OL's if not much dropoff in play... the risk is Jenkins might not be all in for '25 & possibly not play thru "minor" injury.

 

[OldSchool101]

I was using his base salary #'s, his salary cap #'s are actually $17.6mil in '25 & $24.8mil in '26. The extension I "suggested" would drop his salary cap # to $16mil/yr, saving GB $1.6mol in '25, and $8.8mil in '26. Jenkins is still a very good player, probably NOT worth $16mil cap #, definitely not worth $24.8mil. My suggestion was to keep him around thru '27 at a marginally palatable cost.

Gute may still prefer cutting him in '26, saving $20mil on the cap, & moving forward with younger OL's if not much dropoff in play... the risk is Jenkins might not be all in for '25 & possibly not play thru "minor" injury.

I’m maybe seeing some duplication with Banks and Belton being added. I’m pretty sure Jenkins agent is seeing that also. A bird in hand now (getting a modest extension) is better than 2 in the bush (waiting for a potential contract). Guys like Bakhtari would likely agree. Right now Jenkins is still fully in the plans, that might be the collateral he needs to push the FO to make a decision earlier than expected.

 

[mradtke66]

I'm not going to pretend to really understand this. But if we don't want him at 18 1/2 million; why would we want him at 16 and then an additional year? We'd be creating dead money wouldn't we? Why not just wait him out? I mean, where can he go?

We all but certainly DO want him. His final year salary/cap number balloons. This is not unusual for NFL contracts. It is a built-in "renegotiate here" mark. The player is not expected to play under that balloon year except in absurd circumstances.

Jenkins' issue is that he is changing positions. If he has anything less than a pro-bowl season, he'll get cut. By virtue of the position swap, this hurts his chances on getting a fair deal from any of the teams.

What he (presumably) wants is security. Moving to center helps the team but hurts him. Tack on, oh I dunno, 2 years with both sane cap numbers and guaranties and this situation likely resolves itself. He isn't exactly looking for more money.

 

[Voyageur]

Surprisingly, I read that the Packers are experimenting with Van Ness playing inside on the line. I think this might be a good option to take advantage of his speed. He could be a good disrupter on passing downs if he's paired in properly with others, so he can flash his speed.

It's also a pretty good indication that the Packers are trying to find what he can do to really help the team, because his edge game just hasn't been what they'd hoped from it. There's so much raw talent because of his speed, strength, and size that they need to utilize all of it as best possible. You don't just dismiss what he can do effectively.

This is something that I really like about Hafely. He's constantly looking for the strong points on players to see how he can harness it. This is what makes a defense more diverse.

MSN

 

[Heyjoe4]

My next personnel evaluation is Lukas Van Ness. I think the jury is still out on him. At this point, I don't see him reaching anywhere near the potential they seemed to see in him as a first round pick. This might be his year. If not, the contract he's in will be the only one he gets in Green Bay.

On the opposite side, Rashaun Gary. He flashes brilliance, then looks like he's a bumpkin who just learned how to spell the word football on the next play, or in the next game. Between them, I think it was 10 sacks last year. A good player at those positions could hit that mark alone. Their production isn't what we want to pressure QBs at this point. It's going to be an important year for both of them.

My next concern is the Elgton Jenkins holdout. The guy is a tackle, guard, and center. Now he's moving to center. He has a couple of years left on his contract and wants more money and a rewrite. He's holding out for it. His base salary is under $5 mill a year. Not a lot for a top tier center. But is he still a potential top tier center? We're going to find out. So, how much do the Packers invest in him? Elgton turns 30 this year, so how many years are actually left in the tank, and how will he hold up when it comes to injuries? This is a toughie no doubt about it. No matter what they do, it could backfire on them.

Agreed. I haven't followed his injury history outside of the Philly playoff game. It seems that he's been reliable.

He wants to get paid like the T/G/C hybrid he is - and he does it well. I think he played C in college, but MLF has been able to move him all over. He's the prototype for a Packer OL. I can see why he would not want to get locked into C pay. I think Russ Ball will work some magic and they'll get it done. He has a small bit of leverage, given how badly the replacement Gs played in the loss to Philly. Finally, he seems like a team guy to me.

And yeah, at 30 there are more risks. He seems to be worth them. And Love deserves/needs a veteran C he can count on.

 

[Heyjoe4]

My next personnel evaluation is Lukas Van Ness. I think the jury is still out on him. At this point, I don't see him reaching anywhere near the potential they seemed to see in him as a first round pick. This might be his year. If not, the contract he's in will be the only one he gets in Green Bay.

On the opposite side, Rashaun Gary. He flashes brilliance, then looks like he's a bumpkin who just learned how to spell the word football on the next play, or in the next game. Between them, I think it was 10 sacks last year. A good player at those positions could hit that mark alone. Their production isn't what we want to pressure QBs at this point. It's going to be an important year for both of them.

My next concern is the Elgton Jenkins holdout. The guy is a tackle, guard, and center. Now he's moving to center. He has a couple of years left on his contract and wants more money and a rewrite. He's holding out for it. His base salary is under $5 mill a year. Not a lot for a top tier center. But is he still a potential top tier center? We're going to find out. So, how much do the Packers invest in him? Elgton turns 30 this year, so how many years are actually left in the tank, and how will he hold up when it comes to injuries? This is a toughie no doubt about it. No matter what they do, it could backfire on them.

LVN is going to need a career season to get a contract next year. His play has been underwhelming, and that's being kind. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. It takes many guys 3 years to find themselves in the NFL. I hope this is the year for him.

Someone else, (krabs, rmontro, EG?), pointed out that he's not gonna suddenly develop flexible, bendy hips. Good point. They should scheme him for bull rushes, maybe teach him a swim or turnaround move. He gets pushed out and behind the QB by most Ts. So stop going that route and try another. There is a new DL coach in town, and maybe Hafley can work with him. LVN is an incredible athlete. There has to be a way to put that to good use, tight hips notwithstanding.

 

[tynimiller]

LVN is going to need a career season to get a contract next year. His play has been underwhelming, and that's being kind. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. It takes many guys 3 years to find themselves in the NFL. I hope this is the year for him.

Someone else, (krabs, rmontro, EG?), pointed out that he's not gonna suddenly develop flexible, bendy hips. Good point. They should scheme him for bull rushes, maybe teach him a swim or turnaround move. He gets pushed out and behind the QB by most Ts. So stop going that route and try another. There is a new DL coach in town, and maybe Hafley can work with him. LVN is an incredible athlete. There has to be a way to put that to good use, tight hips notwithstanding.

Just a correction, his rookie contract is not expiring after this year. He is under contract clear through the 2026 season.

 

[gopkrs]

I like the idea of giving LVN a go on the interior. His strength is probably his biggest asset.

 

[Krabs]

Surprisingly, I read that the Packers are experimenting with Van Ness playing inside on the line. I think this might be a good option to take advantage of his speed. He could be a good disrupter on passing downs if he's paired in properly with others, so he can flash his speed.

It's also a pretty good indication that the Packers are trying to find what he can do to really help the team, because his edge game just hasn't been what they'd hoped from it. There's so much raw talent because of his speed, strength, and size that they need to utilize all of it as best possible. You don't just dismiss what he can do effectively.

This is something that I really like about Hafely. He's constantly looking for the strong points on players to see how he can harness it. This is what makes a defense more diverse.

MSN

Thanks for sharing this. That's an interesting strategy and it's also interesting to see that he played the interior in college. There's experience there and he has the size to do it. That would add depth to a much needed position.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Thanks for sharing this. That's an interesting strategy and it's also interesting to see that he played the interior in college. There's experience there and he has the size to do it. That would add depth to a much needed position.

This is an important year for Mr. Van Ness. His contributions thus far have been less-than-hoped-for, and if it remains that way this season his time in Green Bay may not extend beyond his rookie contract.

Let's hope he makes the most of his opportunity this year.

 

[Thirteen Below]

When Gutekunst acquired Hardman in FA, he did not anticipate drafting two WRs so high in the draft. He did a good job of adding an insurance policy that is likely no longer needed.

I agree. When Gute was not able to adequately replace Watson with an upper-tier WR in Phase I of free agency, he did the next best thing and bought a budget WR who could replace Watson's speed. He had to prepare for the greater-than-zero possibility that he would not be able to get a prime prospect in the draft, which was very prudent.

By Friday night of draft weekend, there was no pressing need for Hardman. We'll go through the motions - take a look, give him a chance to impress - but his likelihood of making the team dropped way off the edge of the table when we came away with Golden and Williams.

I still think Heath is the most underrated and underappreciated...he has just simply delivered when his number is called and in truth I think has the most Doub's like abilities if Doubs were traded.

I've been a big fan of Heath from his first training camp. He's a talent, and he shows up whenever he's called upon. If it hadn't been for his numerous off-field issues, he may have been drafted as high as the 5th round in 23 (his poor showing at the combine and low RAS had an impact too).

But he seems to have cleaned up his act and is taking football very seriously now, and if we hadn't drafted such a productive group of wideouts in 23, he would have been getting a lot more snaps these past 2 years, and probably be a much more accomplished receiver by now. He'll never be a #1, but he's a legitimate NFL talent IMO.

OK, thanks, I think I get your point. Gluten has added more guys at the same position, and in theory, that increases the likelihood of someone shining through.

In a way, draft picks are like lottery tickets - the more tickets you have, the more chances you have to win.

But it can also work the other way, especially with WRs. Training camp is very short, and the group only gets so many reps. The more players you have, the fewer reps they get in the scrimmages, and the fewer chances each player has to flash an impressive play and catch the coach's eye.

 

[OldSchool101]

It's sorta funny to talk about a guy who is 6'5" and 315 lbs capable of adding another 5-10 lbs easily. It's just mind boggling how big these offensive and defensive linemen have become, and how fast most of them are.

Thanks for the info.

Sure thing.
Obviously that’s my opinion the adding a few pounds. He’s a true 6’5 (6’5.2). So his weight is distributed across his length really well. I was just thinking if Stack didn’t make it, having at least 1 DL in that 320/330lb area might be warranted. He can fit that bill he’s already 315lb what’s that a few lasagna bakes? Idk maybe have him move in with an Italian family for a week around mini camp.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Just a correction, his rookie contract is not expiring after this year. He is under contract clear through the 2026 season.

Forgot about the 4 year plus extension year for round 1 guys. Well, I hope he has a great year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Sure thing.
Obviously that’s my opinion the adding a few pounds. He’s a true 6’5 (6’5.2). So his weight is distributed across his length really well. I was just thinking if Stack didn’t make it, having at least 1 DL in that 320/330lb area might be warranted. He can fit that bill he’s already 315lb what’s that a few lasagna bakes? Idk maybe have him move in with an Italian family for a week around mini camp.

In Wisconsin he could move in with just about any family and gain weight.

 

[Pkrjones]

Forgot about the 4 year plus extension year for round 1 guys. Well, I hope he has a great year.

This year's 5th year option prices for DE/OLB were $14.75mil & $19.87mil, but at 40% snap count LVN would be approx. $13.5mil if eligible this year. LVN needs to perform much better in '25 to get 5th year tagged. He'd probably need over 75% snap count, also, to get over 50% (over 3 years) & a jump up in pay level.

 

[tynimiller]

Forgot about the 4 year plus extension year for round 1 guys. Well, I hope he has a great year.

No his fifth year if chosen by GB to take would be 2027. 2024 was his first year. So his normal four year rookie deal is 24, 25, 26, 27 and it would be next off season for GB to pick up fifth year or not.

(FTR mixed it up, 23,24,25,26 base four years with fifth year option being in 27)

 

[gopkrs]

No his fifth year if chosen by GB to take would be 2027. 2024 was his first year. So his normal four year rookie deal is 24, 25, 26, 27 and it would be next off season for GB to pick up fifth year or not.

I don't think he was a rookie last year

 

[Voyageur]

Van Ness contract. Runs through '26 with a team option for '27.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/82290/lukas-van-ness

 

[tynimiller]

I don't think he was a rookie last year

Apologies I mixed up the years 23, 24, 25 and 26 would be his four year. 27 would be his fifth year if exercised.

 

[Heyjoe4]

No his fifth year if chosen by GB to take would be 2027. 2024 was his first year. So his normal four year rookie deal is 24, 25, 26, 27 and it would be next off season for GB to pick up fifth year or not.

(FTR mixed it up, 23,24,25,26 base four years with fifth year option being in 27)

I understood you the first time. He's entering his third season, still under contract for a fourth, and could be extended to year 5 at the team's discretion.

Regardless, this is a very big year for LVN. Maybe in the second year under Hafley, and a new position coach(es) he will play better. He is extremely athletic, just not very flexible. So scheme to play to his strengths.