Packers, Alexander finalizing extension

[jetfixer]

I'm stoked about our defense. Plus, this morning I was watching some clips from Bussin with the Boys or whatever it's called and it had K.J. Wright and Will Compton, they talked about Bissacia, said guys loved playing for him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Do you think Eagles and Panthers fans are having a similar discussion over Rasul Douglas?

Was thinking the same thing. Raiders and Texans had a shot at him too. Now the Cardinal fans must be really PO'd, since we poached him off their PS.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Enter all the ones claiming they saw the future back then and felt differently......LOL

I concur on Hayward - Hyde I was more mixed on but again got it.

Both still playing in this league.

Randall & Rollins, not-so-much.

 

[sschind]

Was thinking the same thing. Raiders and Texans had a shot at him too. Now the Cardinal fans must be really PO'd, since we poached him off their PS.

I forgot about the Cardinals. They were actually the ones I was thinking of and not the Panthers (didn't know he actually was in Carolina to be honest) but I knew we poached him from someone besides the Eagles. I just looked at stats and got the Panthers.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think the most frustrating thing for me in regards to Hyde and Hayward was not the fact that the Packer staff didn't quite know what solid of players that they actually had, but what was going on in general with the Secondary. You have 2 guys leave that looked ok in Green Bay, but not good enough to keep. The Bills and Chargers immediately strike it big with both players in Free Agency. Meanwhile in Green Bay, you have the GM throwing a large amount of high draft picks at the secondary and all of them turn out to be a bunch of duds. So now you have a secondary that is costing the Packers games, as well as other positions on the team being ignored in the draft, in favor of trying to stop the hemorrhaging going on in the secondary.

TT did a lot of great things in Green Bay, but I will always view his final 4 or so years as ones where he and his scouts had no pulse for the secondary. McCarthy can also be blamed for holding on to a DC and secondary coaches that weren't doing their jobs very well either.

Gute finally reversed things in regards to the secondary. Signing Amos and Douglas, as well as drafting Alexander, Savage and Stokes. Amazing turn around of fortune really.

Thompson - I think he and the scouts obviously missed on Dix, Rollins and Jones. Randall, Hayward and Hyde were correctly assessed imo.

McCarthy - should have fired Capers. Thompson should have fired McCarthy for not firing Capers. Capers imo is responsible for this entire mess for using Randall, Hayward and Hyde incorrectly.

Whitt - I'd love to hear his version of these events. I still think in some cases he did very well. In other cases, he failed imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well at least we got last years draft right. Really only one ? On Amari but even he could pan out. Plus we did fantastic on the Rasul find.

At CB, Stokes is a Winner thus far considering a year 1 starter and how he stayed poised. Rasul is an A grade find and kinda shows you that all teams miss player evaluations. It’s our turn to capitalize on their mistakes.

Rasul more than held his own as a Starter. How much better will we be with Stokes, Rasul and J’aire all playing simultaneously?

Jaire puts $6m in the spendable column and that is huge in giving us $ firepower for a realistic offer for another bonafide O weapon.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thompson - I think he and the scouts obviously missed on Dix, Rollins and Jones. Randall, Hayward and Hyde were correctly assessed imo.

McCarthy - should have fired Capers. Thompson should have fired McCarthy for not firing Capers. Capers imo is responsible for this entire mess for using Randall, Hayward and Hyde incorrectly.

Whitt - I'd love to hear his version of these events. I still think in some cases he did very well. In other cases, he failed imo.

I would disagree with you on Randall, for a first round pick he was a bust, even worse than some people think King is. While switching him from CB to S proved to extend his career a bit, it didn't work out either. The Seahawks tried switching him back to CB and I don't think he has played since 2019 (5 years in the league).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I forgot about the Cardinals. They were actually the ones I was thinking of and not the Panthers (didn't know he actually was in Carolina to be honest) but I knew we poached him from someone besides the Eagles. I just looked at stats and got the Panthers.

Douglas is an outlier I think. It isn't very common for a player to bounce around from team to team, get very little playing time and then be so outstanding. The Eagles must have seen something special in him, because they did use a 3rd round pick on him in 2017. Not sure what lead to him being cut in Sep. 2020, which would have been his final year on his rookie deal. He barely had cups of coffee with the 4 teams that followed. I'm just glad that Gute or a Packer scout saw something that they like in him and poached him from the Cardinals PS. If he has another solid season, there will be 5 fan bases wondering why the heck their teams didn't hang on to him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Randall & Rollins, not-so-much.

add Jones and Dix to that. Gute did whiff on Joshua Jackson, but he hit on Alexander, Savage and Stokes, as well as signed Amos. So I am fine with batting at .750 when it comes to the Secondary.

 

[PikeBadger]

I would disagree with you on Randall, for a first round pick he was a bust, even worse than some people think King is. While switching him from CB to S proved to extend his career a bit, it didn't work out either. The Seahawks tried switching him back to CB and I don't think he has played since 2019 (5 years in the league).

We'll never know for sure. Imo, Randall should have played safety in GB from the first time he showed up for practice. I've always felt the exact same thing about Darren Sharper and Micah Hyde.

My biggest question about Randall was his character and intangibles. I think that made him a gamble at pick #30.

 

[OldSchool101]

We'll never know for sure. Imo, Randall should have played safety in GB from the first time he showed up for practice. I've always felt the exact same thing about Darren Sharper and Micah Hyde.

My biggest question about Randall was his character and intangibles. I think that made him a gamble at pick #30.

Sure. I think lots of players are a gamble in that #30 range. I guess we could argue all players are a gamble and technically be correct. By pick #30 you often miss the top 3-4 players at a particular position. Pick #30 might as well be pick #50. It’s more projection.

This year is a perfect example as our gamble is on Watson and his superior athleticism. Lesser program, lesser production, huge athletic potential. He’s either going to be middling or a complete Stud

 

[GleefulGary]

I think the most frustrating thing for me in regards to Hyde and Hayward was not the fact that the Packer staff didn't quite know what solid of players that they actually had, but what was going on in general with the Secondary. You have 2 guys leave that looked ok in Green Bay, but not good enough to keep. The Bills and Chargers immediately strike it big with both players in Free Agency. Meanwhile in Green Bay, you have the GM throwing a large amount of high draft picks at the secondary and all of them turn out to be a bunch of duds. So now you have a secondary that is costing the Packers games, as well as other positions on the team being ignored in the draft, in favor of trying to stop the hemorrhaging going on in the secondary.

TT did a lot of great things in Green Bay, but I will always view his final 4 or so years as ones where he and his scouts had no pulse for the secondary. McCarthy can also be blamed for holding on to a DC and secondary coaches that weren't doing their jobs very well either.

Gute finally reversed things in regards to the secondary. Signing Amos and Douglas, as well as drafting Alexander, Savage and Stokes. Amazing turn around of fortune really.

Amazing how TT and his scouts that had no pulse for DB’s are roughly the same people that turned around the DB room.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think it remains to be seen if Savage is a hit.

 

[PikeBadger]

Amazing how TT and his scouts that had no pulse for DB’s are roughly the same people that turned around the DB room.

Agree. Coaching maybe?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think it remains to be seen if Savage is a hit.

Fair enough. I do think that the Packers must have quite a bit of confidence in him, since they didn't do much in the offseason in regards to the safety position. Now that doesn't automatically make him a Pro Bowler, since only his play can do that, but it says something about expectations for him. Between Gute and the hire of DC Joe Barry, I think the defense and especially the secondary, is vastly improved.

 

[PikeBadger]

I agree with your assessment about mgmt and staff confidence in Savage. I'm in the Show Me camp. Show me now. I need to see better overall play from him and turnovers created. Otherwise, he needs to be replaced.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with your assessment about mgmt and staff confidence in Savage. I'm in the Show Me camp. Show me now. I need to see better overall play from him and turnovers created. Otherwise, he needs to be replaced.

One thing that has impressed me with Gute, he has been pretty successful at fixing deficiencies via Free Agency or the draft. This year was a bit tough for him to do much due to the cap, other than get some of his own signed. However, if his first 3 draft picks work out, it will have nailed the Packers major needs at the moment. If Savage doesn't do as you say, prove himself, than Gute will need to address that position. One other thing that leads me to believe that they like Savage, is the fact that they picked up his 5th year option.

Sidenote about player dynamics. In Cincinnati, you have Jessie Bates stating that he won't play under his franchise tag ($12.9 M), while everyone but him and a veteran showed up for OTA's.

 

[Mondio]

I don’t think it was a case at all of thinking they were ok but not good enough to keep, but rather there were 3 young guys on rookie deals that looked like they were good enough to replace them so they let them go.

As it turned out one had an injury and never came close to replicating rookie season, one became a headcase, and the other played for a big contract then played not to get hurt.

 

[OldSchool101]

We got a double bonus as I think all would agree we needed to lock Alexander down. So the other part of the deal is reports saying Alexander’s deal freed $6.2M in Cap.

Do you guys think we’ll spend that on help over the next couple of weeks? Or bank it for later, such as an in-season trade or injury replacements?

Also should we put it all towards 1 substantial player and if so, who would you go after?

Or maybe apply it to buffer position depth in a couple areas?

Thoughts?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We got a double bonus as I think all would agree we needed to lock Alexander down. So the other part of the deal is reports saying Alexander’s deal freed $6.2M in Cap.

Do you guys think we’ll spend that on help over the next couple of weeks? Or bank it for later, such as an in-season trade or injury replacements?

Also should we put it all towards 1 substantial player and if so, who would you go after?

Or maybe apply it to buffer position depth in a couple areas?

Thoughts?

Give it to Rodgers, he's way underpaid.

I'd like to see them sign Julio with about $3M+ incentives of it. Otherwise, hold on to it and see where you need to improve come August/Sept. Also, given how much cap has been pushed out, it wouldn't be a crime to carry it over to 2023.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I think you sign Julio or Fuller with a deal loaded with incentives. Not because we need them, but because why not. Win now. Then do the same with Gronk, offer him more money than the Bucs for one year. Even if he doesn't accept the offer maybe you force the Bucs to pay more.

 

[OldSchool101]

Give it to Rodgers, he's way underpaid.

I'd like to see them sign Julio with about $3M+ incentives of it. Otherwise, hold on to it and see where you need to improve come August/Sept. Also, given how much cap has been pushed out, it wouldn't be a crime to carry it over to 2023.

Do you really think he’d do that? (This isn’t a setup question)
I ask because his last contract last season was $22m annual. Obviously he was a Cap casualty because they saved nearly 9-10M cutting him and they obviously didn’t think they’d get value.

Yet in an aggressive WR market (meaning higher demand) would he take anything south of MVS $$ ?? I’d love it but my guess is he’d tell us to take a hike for anything under 6-8M area, that area we saved with J’aire.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Don't you know, the only accurate way to evaluate a GMs decision is several years after it is made taking into account only what happened in the ensuing years and completely ignoring the circumstances of the moment.

Well, it seems to be true for the draft

TT did a lot of great things in Green Bay, but I will always view his final 4 or so years as ones where he and his scouts had no pulse for the secondary. McCarthy can also be blamed for holding on to a DC and secondary coaches that weren't doing their jobs very well either.

I believe the Packers front office losing a lot of talent to other teams significantly factored into them struggling for some years as well.

We got a double bonus as I think all would agree we needed to lock Alexander down. So the other part of the deal is reports saying Alexander’s deal freed $6.2M in Cap.

Do you guys think we’ll spend that on help over the next couple of weeks? Or bank it for later, such as an in-season trade or injury replacements?

Also should we put it all towards 1 substantial player and if so, who would you go after?

Or maybe apply it to buffer position depth in a couple areas?

Thoughts?

I fully expect Gutekunst to use the cap space saved by signing Alexander to an extension at some point this season. I have no idea about which player(s) and when he will make those moves on though.

I think you sign Julio or Fuller with a deal loaded with incentives. Not because we need them, but because why not. Win now.

The Packers should solely sign a free agent they believe will improve their chances of winning the Super Bowl next season but not just for the sake of making a move.

Do you really think he’d do that? (This isn’t a setup question)
I ask because his last contract last season was $22m annual. Obviously he was a Cap casualty because they saved nearly 9-10M cutting him and they obviously didn’t think they’d get value.

Yet in an aggressive WR market (meaning higher demand) would he take anything south of MVS $$ ?? I’d love it but my guess is he’d tell us to take a hike for anything under 6-8M area, that area we saved with J’aire.

While Julio might seek a deal like the one MVS signed with the Chiefs I don't believe any team is ready to pay him that kind of money at this point in his career.

 

[Pkrjones]

I'm confused about Alexander's new contract. Overthecap shows he is under contract through the 2026 season (5 years) and that the total payout is $98.076Mil with $30Mil signing bonus. His 5th year option contract of $13.294Mil was thrown away, so it wasn't a 4 year extension (from '23-'26), it is actually a new deal ('22-'26) for 5 years & $98.076Mil.

Why is it being listed as the #1 CB contract at 4yr $21Mil/yr., when it truly is the #4 highest CB at 5yr $19.615Mil/yr deal??

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I believe the Packers front office losing a lot of talent to other teams significantly factored into them struggling for some years as well.

While I agree, it is kind of the nature of the beast. Losing Hayward and Hyde, seemed somewhat inconsequential at the time. Losing other players to Free Agency is also part of the game. The key is to replace those players with same or better players and TT wasn't a guy who liked to dabble to much in Free Agency. Instead, he relied on the draft and development method and when he started having more misses than hits, it showed.