Our 2014 D-Fence has improved

[Kitten]

They certainly have improved I just hope they remain consistent. We seem to be generating turnovers on D a lot more in the last few weeks. I think we have improved on both sides of the ball if you want to factor that in. When Aaron Rodgers offense if running on all 8 cylinders, it makes it easier on the D. That's not to undermine the skill level of our D but it's something to consider.

 

[TJV]

I said it 8 months ago and I'll say it again. I have no problem at all with our receiving corp and in fact I'm excited about the group. Packer fans forget that before Jones last couple seasons in GB where he was very good, was a guy that dropped A TON of balls. When he was dropping those balls Driver was still a great player. When he started making all those plays (and more), Driver was on a major decline. There was NOT a very large footprint in time when we had three "great" receivers on this team. ...

I can’t figure out why you quoted my post as yours has almost nothing to do with mine. I wrote that post after the Vikings game and at that point, Boykin and the TEs were “invisible” and Adams hadn’t emerged. But I included this sentence, “But everyone not named Nelson or Cobb has a chance to get better as the season progresses.” That’s certainly happened with Adams, hasn’t it?

 

[NOMOFO]

I can’t figure out why you quoted my post as yours has almost nothing to do with mine. I wrote that post after the Vikings game and at that point, Boykin and the TEs were “invisible” and Adams hadn’t emerged. But I included this sentence, “But everyone not named Nelson or Cobb has a chance to get better as the season progresses.” That’s certainly happened with Adams, hasn’t it?

I was responding to this that you wrote: "BTW I don’t think the current WR corp is up to the standard of past units, even recent ones."

 

[TJV]

I was responding to this that you wrote: "BTW I don’t think the current WR corp is up to the standard of past units, even recent ones."

OK. It was hard to tell since you talked about it being ridiculous to show career stats (I didn’t) and since I purposely excluded Jordy and Cobb in my last sentence. At the time I wrote that (as I said) no one other than those two were showing much of anything. That was the difference from the recent past: There was better support for the leading WRs – the number 3 and 4 receivers. But (again) my last sentence pointed to optimism and Adams particularly has stepped up in gaining Rodgers’ trust. I think that’s true of Quarless too. R. Rodgers has recently improved his blocking but he’s not likely to be the seam-splitter they could use. I’m still holding out hope Bostic is that player and I’m a little puzzled why he hasn’t seen the field more. He only caught 7 passes last season but 3 of them went for 20+ yards and I thought he’d be fully up to speed with another year in the offense.

 

[NOMOFO]

OK. It was hard to tell since you talked about it being ridiculous to show career stats (I didn’t) and since I purposely excluded Jordy and Cobb in my last sentence. At the time I wrote that (as I said) no one other than those two were showing much of anything. That was the difference from the recent past: There was better support for the leading WRs – the number 3 and 4 receivers. But (again) my last sentence pointed to optimism and Adams particularly has stepped up in gaining Rodgers’ trust. I think that’s true of Quarless too. R. Rodgers has recently improved his blocking but he’s not likely to be the seam-splitter they could use. I’m still holding out hope Bostic is that player and I’m a little puzzled why he hasn’t seen the field more. He only caught 7 passes last season but 3 of them went for 20+ yards and I thought he’d be fully up to speed with another year in the offense.

Sorry for being unclear. I was pre-empting those that make the argument that our receiving corp was better a few years ago using career stats without looking at who that person was at that point with the Pack. I can predict that I would get a reply showing double d's career stats as "proof" that group was better. Again, my main point...There was NOT a very large footprint in time when we had three "great" receivers on this team. I would even argue we didn't have three "great" ones at the same time.

 

[Mklangelo]

The Packers undoubtedly have two very good receivers on the roster with Nelson being an elite one and Cobb on the verge of becoming an elite guy if he can stay healthy. It seems like Davante Adams has earned Rodgers´ trust over the last few weeks and is coming along as well.

There´s no reason for me to believe though that any of the TEs will break out over the course of the season and the Packers would way more dangerous if we had a receiving threat at the position.

Yea. thanks for repeating most of what I said in my previous post without acknowledging it.

But we really aren't talking about defense now are we? lol

/hijack off

 

[OldSchool101]

The problem I see is this defencce is built to play with a huge lead. The offence has to get going and score points because the defence isn't built to be dominant and being able to stop a team from running the ball and burning off the clock and not allowing the offence to be on the field all that much. It works when the offence does put up the points(vikings game).

Until they consistently stop the run, stop teams on third down and stop relying on turnovers to win games. I don't see this team going all that far. I had the same concerns in 2011 but we went 15-1 and the defence couldn't stop anyone without turnovers. Turnovers are great but to be a defence that relies on them to get stops will eventually lose you games., especially in the playoffs.

I somewhat disagree. My philosophy is liberal for a conservative and that's that there is no perfect cookie cutter D
Yeah, we both can agree that we would better off if we had a number 1 pass and a number 1 run D or the like. Ultimately it's a balanced attack that is most formidable and although this sounds rhetorical, it's if you Win. In 2010 we measured our losses also. which none of then were more than 4pts a game. So I say its consistency, and like someone else in here said "putting yourself in the position to get "lucky" that last game or two. Then it's all out the window. It's all just whoever wants it the most on any given day. Within reason, a number #9 ranked D with proper discipline and cohesiveness can beat out a#2 ranked D. This is particularly so if they watch their Offense kicking butt.. Or a big special teams play.(c'mon Micah)And vise versa. This game is all about momentum. So to sum up my opinion, if we can get to a point where we are consistently allowing on D the teens and maybe low 20s. Well make the last poker table

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers undoubtedly have two very good receivers on the roster with Nelson being an elite one and Cobb on the verge of becoming an elite guy if he can stay healthy. It seems like Davante Adams has earned Rodgers´ trust over the last few weeks and is coming along as well.

There´s no reason for me to believe though that any of the TEs will break out over the course of the season and the Packers would way more dangerous if we had a receiving threat at the position.

If we had an elite TE we might even edge out Denver offensively

 

[OldSchool101]

U

OK. It was hard to tell since you talked about it being ridiculous to show career stats (I didn’t) and since I purposely excluded Jordy and Cobb in my last sentence. At the time I wrote that (as I said) no one other than those two were showing much of anything. That was the difference from the recent past: There was better support for the leading WRs – the number 3 and 4 receivers. But (again) my last sentence pointed to optimism and Adams particularly has stepped up in gaining Rodgers’ trust. I think that’s true of Quarless too. R. Rodgers has recently improved his blocking but he’s not likely to be the seam-splitter they could use. I’m still holding out hope Bostic is that player and I’m a little puzzled why he hasn’t seen the field more. He only caught 7 passes last season but 3 of them went for 20+ yards and I thought he’d be fully up to speed with another year in the offense.

Yeah. Good point. Where is Bostick? I know he had an injury in preseason but he supposedly was "the man" many regarded as the most similar physicality to Jermichael. Maybe it's like the discussion about the C position where they want to keep a semi-good thing going at the position. Similar with Quarless and then Brandon is our insurance policy?

 

[SoonerPack]

The Packers undoubtedly have two very good receivers on the roster with Nelson being an elite one and Cobb on the verge of becoming an elite guy if he can stay healthy. It seems like Davante Adams has earned Rodgers´ trust over the last few weeks and is coming along as well.

There´s no reason for me to believe though that any of the TEs will break out over the course of the season and the Packers would way more dangerous if we had a receiving threat at the position.

Amen. I am not griping but man would I love to have Owen Daniels in Green and Gold right about now. He is showing his worth for the Ravens this season and is still making plays. We had him in our hands during his OS visit and let him go for whatever reason? Look, TT and co. have forgotten more ball than I know so I am not knocking them but I think he sure would've been a nice addition to this squad. Hopefully Rodgers or Q can step up because a serious TE weapon would make us straight nasty!

 

[TJV]

Where is Bostick? I know he had an injury in preseason but he supposedly was "the man" many regarded as the most similar physicality to Jermichael. Maybe it's like the discussion about the C position where they want to keep a semi-good thing going at the position. Similar with Quarless and then Brandon is our insurance policy?

I don't think it's like the C position because Quarless and Rodgers have been splitting snaps at TE so there isn't an entrenched starter like Finley. Also, it's not a position where continuity is as important as on the OL, C in particular. All we (or I) have read is Bostick needs to practice better; but like I said, he played last year. How the hell did he regress?

If he can be a TE that stretches Ds, that'll be another weapon for Rodgers to exploit.

 

[PackerDNA]

Nelson's work speaks for itself and Cobb is really coming on. Adams is looking like he and Rogers are starting to bond out there with the whole trust thing. I like our receiving corp very much.

And as for Mr. Driver, you just can't have enough classy guys like that around. The Pack were blessed to have such a quality guy on their roster.

I don't think our WR corps is up to the level of recent years. Too much reliance on Nelson and Cobb.
However, I believe this to be to a lack of experience more than anything. I really like Adams; he's coming on as the season goes on like I expected him too. I like the potential of the rest of the youngsters, also.
Long term, we're in very good shape at the position.

 

[Mklangelo]

Um... Isn't this a thread about the Packer's Defense? Just sayin...

 

[NOMOFO]

Um... Isn't this a thread about the Packer's Defense? Just sayin...

Yes...sorry.

 

[PackerDNA]

I suppose you're right. ...and he was credited with several big plays.

Meanwhile Greg Olson is considered one of the worst blocking TE in the league.

Greg Olson killed us last week. Heh.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Well, Capers has proven his 3-4 defense can't contain a mobile QB on several occasions.

Did pretty good this week. I don't even count the Seattle game, that was just a bad game in a very hard place to play. They have held every team since and did a great job on a very mobile QB this week.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

They certainly have improved I just hope they remain consistent. We seem to be generating turnovers on D a lot more in the last few weeks. I think we have improved on both sides of the ball if you want to factor that in. When Aaron Rodgers offense if running on all 8 cylinders, it makes it easier on the D. That's not to undermine the skill level of our D but it's something to consider.

I consider our O a twelve cylinder engine that is only currently firing on 8 Our D is a Diesel that is just warming up.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Um... Isn't this a thread about the Packer's Defense? Just sayin...

the long and winding road

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

I believe it has.
Did anyone else notice how they were able to hold Da Bears to just 3 points with that goal line stand in the first half?
Da Bears had more than just 4 chances with a number of penalties and our D still managed to not let them get a TD.
(I think there were two penalties. One against us and one against them during that attempt.)
Any other team and game before and they would have gotten in.
Anyway, there are still many things to be improved but I think this was a very good start.

This D is for real, My big concern was NT, TT once again showed his competence in picking up Guion. NT is where stopping the run starts and he has been playing superb. Capers finally has the personnel he has been needing to fully execute his playbook. Maybe the Fire Capers crowd will finally be believers at the end of this season. If the squad of starters can stay healthy this D is going to be a beast in Dec and Jan.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My big concern was NT, TT once again showed his competence in picking up Guion. NT is where stopping the run starts and he has been playing superb.

Guion has really come along since the Vikings game, pleasant surprise.

 

[Kitten]

I consider our O a twelve cylinder engine that is only currently firing on 8 Our D is a Diesel that is just warming up.

This D is going to be tested in upcoming games. The biggest test is going to come against the Eagles and their high octane offense. That may be a case where the D on both teams are helpless as that game will most likely turn into a QB or offensive duel.

I am eager to see how we match up against different teams. I am also of a mind this D is only just getting started.

 

[Mklangelo]

I believe it has.
Did anyone else notice how they were able to hold Da Bears to just 3 points with that goal line stand in the first half?
Da Bears had more than just 4 chances with a number of penalties and our D still managed to not let them get a TD.
(I think there were two penalties. One against us and one against them during that attempt.)
Any other team and game before and they would have gotten in.
Anyway, there are still many things to be improved but I think this was a very good start.

I'm not giving total blame to Capers but he does share some responsibility. If I had to choose, I'd put more of the blame on the personnel.

But this has been an ongoing theme of Packer Defense the last several years. A defense that is prone near total breakdown.

I would talk about how this Packer team is pretty crappy without its star QB but this is a thread about the defense.

Look at Matthews. Of all his years in GB, he has played exactly one full season.

His numbers have fallen off severely this year. Granted, he has had varying degrees of supporting cast throughout his tenure. But this year he has Peppers on the other side and Peppers has done a good job (4 sacks so far this year to Matthews 3) taking attention away from Matthews but the numbers don't reflect that.

Together their 7 sacks are roughly on a pace to total about half of Matthews season total in his top year of 13.5 in 2010. So in other words, Peppers AND Matthews are producing what Matthews ALONE was capable of in 2010.

The VAST majority of players have their best football behind them at the age of 29. Matthews will be 29 in about 7 months.

In my opinion, he's running on reputation in spite of his Magnificent Mane.

 

[JBlood]

Football Outsiders has interesting stats, if anyone is interested in stats. Basically, they adjust yards by field position and situation. 3 yard gain is worth more on 3rd and 7 than it is on 3rd and 2 (from the defensive side), for example. Currently, FO has us as the 18th ranked defense in the league--23rd against the run, 15th against the pass. At the end of last year the defense ranked 31st--30th against the run, 28th against the pass. So, halfway through the season, we've improved from the embarrassing defense of 2013 . It's noteworthy that we fell from no. 10 to no. 18 following the Saints game, so things can change rapidly at this point in the season.

Our defensive line is ranked 26th against the run, 18th against the pass. We are 10th in the league on runs around our L end; 21st over L tackle; 21st up the middle; 27th over R tackle; and 24th around R end.

Against types of receivers, it's the tight ends and running backs who we are worst in defending against the pass: against #1, #2, and other wide receivers we rank 13, 10, and 11th. Against TE 23rd, running backs 24th.

Defensive line and linebacking are our main problems on defense. Same thing on offense, where our line ranks 20th in run blocking and 23rd in pass protection. In spite of this our offense is currently ranked 5th, thanks to Rogers.

Good teams are built from the lines up, not the other way around.

 

[Mklangelo]

Great stats, JBlood.

I have been to that site its just been awhile.

It ALL starts at the line of scrimmage.

We are better tacklers this year and that has been an ongoing issue.

Hawk is super steady in this department. He's on pace to match his 74 solo tackles from last year. That's solid as a rock.

Morgan Burnett is blowing last years solo tackle numbers away at 44 as opposed to 30 last year. Nice!

Tramon Williams is about where he was last year at this point at 31 as opposed to 30.5 last year.

Shields is WAY down at 12 from 25.5.

Micah Hyde's numbers are up significantly at 28 from 20.5 at halfway in 2013.

We miss the tackling production of Jennings.

Dix is a pleasant surprise and on a pace for 66 solo tackles this year.

He was a very nice addition.

It's a mixed bag but even with missing the tackling of Jennings, we are on a pace to outdo last year's solo tackling numbers by 40

 

[PackerDNA]

That's the essence of football; control the lines of scrimmage and you'll enjoy a lot of success.