Our 2014 D-Fence has improved

Packerlifer

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The fact that we're talking about "signs of improvement" and looking for glimmers of hope that the defense is getting better is a clear indication that we still have serious problems on that side of the ball and it very well could keep the Packers from a 14th world championship this season.

At the end of this season Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson will have to decide whether the time has come to make a major change like they did in 2009 when they replaced nearly the entire defensive coaching staff and switched to the 3-4.

The problem is simply that they haven't been able to find and develop the players who can make the 3-4 work at an elite level. Clay Matthews is the only drafted player who fits as a top notch 3-4 guy. The rest have been strikeouts, foul tips and trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

The Packers have had to take two all pro defensive ends in 4-3's, Aaron Kampman and Julius Peppers, to try to find the outside rush lb complement to the Claymaker. They drafted a guy better suited to end in a 4-3 in Nick Perry, who has done little as a 3-4 lb.

B.J. Raji is out for this year and has never been the blocker eating nose tackle he was supposed to be or that a good 3-4 defense needs. And the Packers further diluted him by their indecision to play him on the nose or at end.

Since Desmond Bishop was injured the team has been in a futile search for an inside linebacker who can rush, play the run and drop into coverage.

A.J Hawk's best seasons were his first two, when he was outside in a 4-3 scheme.

Since very few colleges play 3-4 defense it's hard to find real 3-4 guys in the draft. And since the Packers are increasingly this season playing four on the defensive line maybe it's time to just go back to a 4-3 scheme and get the players who really fit and can play it well.
 

PikeBadger

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The fact that we're talking about "signs of improvement" and looking for glimmers of hope that the defense is getting better is a clear indication that we still have serious problems on that side of the ball and it very well could keep the Packers from a 14th world championship this season.

At the end of this season Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson will have to decide whether the time has come to make a major change like they did in 2009 when they replaced nearly the entire defensive coaching staff and switched to the 3-4.

The problem is simply that they haven't been able to find and develop the players who can make the 3-4 work at an elite level. Clay Matthews is the only drafted player who fits as a top notch 3-4 guy. The rest have been strikeouts, foul tips and trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

The Packers have had to take two all pro defensive ends in 4-3's, Aaron Kampman and Julius Peppers, to try to find the outside rush lb complement to the Claymaker. They drafted a guy better suited to end in a 4-3 in Nick Perry, who has done little as a 3-4 lb.

B.J. Raji is out for this year and has never been the blocker eating nose tackle he was supposed to be or that a good 3-4 defense needs. And the Packers further diluted him by their indecision to play him on the nose or at end.

Since Desmond Bishop was injured the team has been in a futile search for an inside linebacker who can rush, play the run and drop into coverage.

A.J Hawk's best seasons were his first two, when he was outside in a 4-3 scheme.

Since very few colleges play 3-4 defense it's hard to find real 3-4 guys in the draft. And since the Packers are increasingly this season playing four on the defensive line maybe it's time to just go back to a 4-3 scheme and get the players who really fit and can play it well.
It's not easy finding a lot of good d-linemen especially tackles especially drafting at the back end of every round, every year. With the running QB's a 3-4 may be better suited for containment.
 

60six

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Holding the other teams to around 20 pts is a perfect scenario to this teams success given are high powered offense, but if the yards keep piling up and they dont get it fixed, it will eventually turn into more points for the better QBed teams. A win is a win, but I just dont like what I see out there........wins-Cutler-Smith-Ponder.....loses-Wilson-Stafford.
 

longtimefan

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Holding the other teams to around 20 pts is a perfect scenario to this teams success given are high powered offense, but if the yards keep piling up and they dont get it fixed, it will eventually turn into more points for the better QBed teams. A win is a win, but I just dont like what I see out there........wins-Cutler-Smith-Ponder.....loses-Wilson-Stafford.

The def gave up 7 points vs Detroit and lost

Def held Cutler to 17 points...and won..
 
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It's not easy finding a lot of good d-linemen especially tackles especially drafting at the back end of every round, every year. With the running QB's a 3-4 may be better suited for containment.

Well, Capers has proven his 3-4 defense can't contain a mobile QB on several occasions.
 
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IF at the end of the season it was decided to release the defensive coach and bring in a new coach, AND he favoured a different system, would OUR defensive player be able to adapt to it, or we have to look to a similar 3-4 coach ?
 
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IF at the end of the season it was decided to release the defensive coach and bring in a new coach, AND he favoured a different system, would OUR defensive player be able to adapt to it, or we have to look to a similar 3-4 coach ?

I think we would have the players needed on the defensive line, Thompson would have to upgrade the linebacker position though.
 

Packerlifer

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The 4-3 defense on the 13-3 team in 2007 wasn't so bad. They had a deep 8 man d-line rotation that featured Aaron Kampman, Ryan Pickett, Corey Williams, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamilla, Johnny Jolly and Colin Cole. Charles Woodson, Al Harris, Nick Collins in the secondary. A.J. Hawk and Nick Barnett linebacking. Injuries and free agency took it down the next year when MM decided to go 3-4.

Part of the reason they went to 3-4 was to carry more linebackers. The 2008 team lost a slew of games in the final minutes or in overtime, often when they went in to the end with the lead, on defensive lapses and special teams breakdowns; particularly on punt and kick coverage. More linebackers were supposed to "kill two birds with one stone." Beef up the defense and improve the coverage teams.

Obviously going to 4-3 now would involve some drafting and free agency moves to man it but some notable pieces could already be in place. Nick Perry, Julius Peppers, Datone Jones can play end. Mike Neal could bulk back up to 290 and pair with Mike Daniels as pass rushing tackles. B.J. Raji could play tackle in a 4-3. Guion has always played in that scheme. Boyd and Pennel could be big, tough bodies to move on running downs.

They've already got Matthews and Hawk for outside linebackers.

The big piece to look for in the draft or free agency would be a stud middle linebacker but that's a shorter list than the Packers will have next spring. They may then be looking for a nose tackle, an outside linebacker, inside linebacker and a defensive end to continue with the 3-4. In other words the same things they have been seeking for the last four years. What's that Einstein said about insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
 

adambr2

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The def gave up 7 points vs Detroit and lost

Def held Cutler to 17 points...and won..

Agreed. We lost to Wilson and Stafford because they were tough team opponents, on the road and we didn't play particularly well offensively. Not because they are head and shoulders better than the other QB's we've faced.
 

60six

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Agreed. We lost to Wilson and Stafford because they were tough team opponents, on the road and we didn't play particularly well offensively. Not because they are head and shoulders better than the other QB's we've faced.
Sorry, but disagree...........Stafford/Wilson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Smith/Ponder and we own Cutler going on 5 years now
 

adambr2

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Sorry, but disagree...........Stafford/Wilson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Smith/Ponder and we own Cutler going on 5 years now

I'm not arguing that Stafford and Wilson aren't better than Smith and Ponder. But that's not the reason we lost those games.

Secondary hasn't been an issue. We played perfectly well enough against Stafford to beat him. Couldn't get any offense going.
 

Beebe82

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43 or 34 I'm not sure how much it matters. Perry and Jones and others (McMillian) have been disappointments no matter what scheme they are in. I would contend that the packers are much more equipped right now to run a 43 than they are to run a 34. I think they do well enough with TEs to man the coverage on special teams, the main problem there for a while was Slocum's "new and improved" coverage ideas that worked about as well as flex seal on the bottom of a boat. Once Slocum went back to traditional coverage schemes our special teams improved, though they are still not great. If I was McCarthy I would have gone after Lovie Smith last offseason. His teams can plan the run, pass and are excellent at special teams. Couple that with McCarthy's above average offensive execution and you have a year in and year out conference championship contender.
 

rodell330

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The defense is inconsistent period..they looked good at times but Minnesota was a rare thing where they actually played good for 4 quarters. I expect to see a defense ranked from 24-32 and one good game hasn't changed myind. The Vikings are not that good... They beat up on a sorry qb and average rb that's what they should've done.
 

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Pash Rush is improved but the run defense is still a millstone around their necks. The pash rush pays big dividends against pocket passers but I'm afraid that it will flush running qb's and lead to even bigger gashes in the run game. The d linemen get manhandled on run plays.
 
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Forget Favre

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And we didn't score anything in the fourth quarter and let the Vikes get 10 points.
Gawd, we suck!
 

60six

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I preface this by saying that these stats include an extra game for the Packers, but right now Morgan Burnett leads the NFL in tackles with 48. AJ Hawk is 3rd with 45 tackles. I just found that interesting.
....and 2 games for about 10 bye week teams
 

Vrill

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Our D is what it is. Bend but dont break. I dont mind giving up yards between the 20s as long as we dont allow TDs. With our offense, a bend but dont break D will work out fine for us.
 

easyk83

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Agreed. We lost to Wilson and Stafford because they were tough team opponents, on the road and we didn't play particularly well offensively. Not because they are head and shoulders better than the other QB's we've faced.

The Defense played well enough for us to win both games. Offense didn't play well, the Offense was utter garbage in both games.
 

realcaliforniacheese

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I believe it has.
Did anyone else notice how they were able to hold Da Bears to just 3 points with that goal line stand in the first half?
Da Bears had more than just 4 chances with a number of penalties and our D still managed to not let them get a TD.
(I think there were two penalties. One against us and one against them during that attempt.)
Any other team and game before and they would have gotten in.
Anyway, there are still many things to be improved but I think this was a very good start.
Looking much improved. I would still feel better if we had a big hog like Raji in the NT position.
 

searmh

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was pleased with our defense v the Vikings, feel we have improved, much better tackling, good pass rush..applying pressure..people will say it was against ponder but he played ok and wasnt helped by drops also the vikings o-line wasnt criticised prior to the game....if we can keep it up we will be ok
 
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Well, Burnett is still 7th and Hawk 9th in tackles. Not bad. Burnett is actually 4th in solo tackles, only 5 out of 1st.

Normally a safety being the leading tackler for a team is a really bad sign for the entire unit.
 

PikeBadger

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Well, Capers has proven his 3-4 defense can't contain a mobile QB on several occasions.
Agree, but I think the concept remains if you have the right personnel that LB's have a better chance of containing those QB's than D-tackles.
 

Mklangelo

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I agree 100% that instead of anointing the Pack as the chosen team of 2014, let's temper our optimism with the fact that they have struggled against upper level teams and have beaten teams they should beat. Chicago will never get to the top with that punk at QB. Million dollar arm and a 10Cent head. Minnesota and the NY Jests are nothing to brag about beating.

Until the Pack can show that they can win against elite teams, I'm withholding my praise.
 
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