Official studs and duds in Seattle 2018

[rmontro]

Dud: Rodgers, the cry baby crap is getting old, fix it already and don't make me watch you cry all game!

Remember when Rodgers used to come up to the line grinning? What happened to that guy? I know he's frustrated, but he's angry all the time, his body language is terrible, he's not having any fun out there. Maybe he should take up yoga, you know, to keep himself tranquil.

 

[Mondio]

One thing I noticed that even after catches or misses, him and EQ don't even really look at each other

 

[azrsx05]

Remember when Rodgers used to come up to the line grinning? What happened to that guy? I know he's frustrated, but he's angry all the time, his body language is terrible, he's not having any fun out there. Maybe he should take up yoga, you know, to keep himself tranquil.

I would be angry if I downgraded from Olivia Munn to Danika Patrick too lol

 

[swhitset]

I would be angry if I downgraded from Olivia Munn to Danika Patrick too lol

that deserves a disagree...Olivia Munn?.. really ? No thank you.

 

[ARPackFan]

Studs: Sports media for finally pointing out the emperor has no clothes. The mindless prattle about Thompson's drafting genius and McCarthy's play calling prowess has pretty much stopped.

 

[sschind]

I would be angry if I downgraded from Olivia Munn to Danika Patrick too lol

No downgrade there my friend.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think that's a bit over the top. I think people are saying he's not without blame these days. If he over or under throws a ball, it's hardly the receivers fault. And you have to admit he holds the ball far too long at times and gets sacked. Teams seem to know we are not really a running team and defend accordingly. Rodgers HAS to take some of the blame.

Agreed. But this trend of taking four gifs from a game and using those as evidence that Rodgers is too blame for a loss is getting ridiculous. Missing a check-down is not great, but throwing a perfect 50+ yard TD pass into tight coverage is probably WAY better than a few missed check downs. Rodgers is not blameless, but he's pretty far down the list of blame on this team. Just off the top of my head I'd put conservative coaching, misuse of personnel, injuries forcing rookie WRs into positions they're not ready for, and bad drafts by TT ahead of Rodgers missing a few check downs a game.

 

[swhitset]

Agreed. But this trend of taking four gifs from a game and using those as evidence that Rodgers is too blame for a loss is getting ridiculous. Missing a check-down is not great, but throwing a perfect 50+ yard TD pass into tight coverage is probably WAY better than a few missed check downs. Rodgers is not blameless, but he's pretty far down the list of blame on this team. Just off the top of my head I'd put conservative coaching, misuse of personnel, injuries forcing rookie WRs into positions they're not ready for, and bad drafts by TT ahead of Rodgers missing a few check downs a game.

It’s all in how you frame it. He didn’t just miss a few checkdowns. Every time the Packers had a 3rd and short including the TD to Tonyan... he held the ball and looked down field. Yeah he got the Td to Tonyan the rest were failures. Those missed 3rd downs were essentially turnovers... So yeah they mattered.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It’s all in how you frame it. He didn’t just miss a few checkdowns. Every time the Packers had a 3rd and short including the TD to Tonyan... he held the ball and looked down field. Yeah he got the Td to Tonyan the rest were failures. Those missed 3rd downs were essentially turnovers... So yeah they mattered.

That's what I'm talking about. Those missed check downs mattered, but not as much as MM getting scared and punting, not as much as I think it was, what, 2 or 3 wasted drafts by TT, missing Randall Cobb which lead to MM putting MVS into the slot where he's obviously not nearly as good (MVS is obviously a MUCH better outside guy), which ties into misuse of personnel (how many games did the team waste while playing Aaron Jones the least snaps at RB?). Missing third down throws obviously matters, had Rodgers made those throws the Packers might have won. But in this discussion it's like everyone has forgotten all the throws he DID make; had he not made quite few TERRIFIC throws that few other QBs could make, the Packers aren't even close in this game. If the choice was between Rodgers, who misses check downs, and Alex Smith, the king of check downs, I'm fairly certain that everyone would take Rodgers; but that comparison is easy. I'm also sure that pretty much everyone would take Rodgers over Big Ben, who is very good with the check downs, or Stafford, or any one of the numerous other QBs who check down fairly often. It's like I've been saying, Rodgers isn't perfect, he has flaws to his game. That flaw tends to be (and always has been) his desire to push the ball down the field. Now, maybe he doesn't realize how much his knee is affecting him and he thinks he can still get away from pressure when he can't, but his positive traits VASTLY outweigh his negatives. If you want to harp on his flaws in the check down game then find a coach who can either design an offense he trusts and is willing to check down in, or find a coach like Arians (but NOT Arians) or Brian Schottenheimer who likes to run a much more vertical, "Air "Coryell" style of offense that accounts for that flaw.

 

[swhitset]

That's what I'm talking about. Those missed check downs mattered, but not as much as MM getting scared and punting, not as much as I think it was, what, 2 or 3 wasted drafts by TT, missing Randall Cobb which lead to MM putting MVS into the slot where he's obviously not nearly as good (MVS is obviously a MUCH better outside guy), which ties into misuse of personnel (how many games did the team waste while playing Aaron Jones the least snaps at RB?). Missing third down throws obviously matters, had Rodgers made those throws the Packers might have won. But in this discussion it's like everyone has forgotten all the throws he DID make; had he not made quite few TERRIFIC throws that few other QBs could make, the Packers aren't even close in this game. If the choice was between Rodgers, who misses check downs, and Alex Smith, the king of check downs, I'm fairly certain that everyone would take Rodgers; but that comparison is easy. I'm also sure that pretty much everyone would take Rodgers over Big Ben, who is very good with the check downs, or Stafford, or any one of the numerous other QBs who check down fairly often. It's like I've been saying, Rodgers isn't perfect, he has flaws to his game. That flaw tends to be (and always has been) his desire to push the ball down the field. Now, maybe he doesn't realize how much his knee is affecting him and he thinks he can still get away from pressure when he can't, but his positive traits VASTLY outweigh his negatives. If you want to harp on his flaws in the check down game then find a coach who can either design an offense he trusts and is willing to check down in, or find a coach like Arians (but NOT Arians) or Brian Schottenheimer who likes to run a much more vertical, "Air "Coryell" style of offense that accounts for that flaw.

You know what? I pretty much agree with your entire post. The only thing I take some issue with is that I think you have underrated Alex Smith... but so has most of the NFL My contention is not that Aaron Rodgers is the only problem, but that he does need to get some things fixed. I am also not against replacing McCarthy because I think the Packers may need a change. I am not enthusiastic about the likelihood of success however. Do we want to lose Pettine too?

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

Switset I agree with your premise. It is not an either or for blame this year. Both MM and Aaron have not been what they need to be. And we can’t replace the QB so MM may need to be replaced. But I don’t want to lose Petine either. He has done a good job improving our defense. It is a tough issue right now.

 

[shockerx]

How about we just go Pettine as HC....he can still oversee the D. then find a young Offensive guru. we need to keep pettine at all cost.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

I would be happy with this shokerx.

 

[swhitset]

How about we just go Pettine as HC....he can still oversee the D. then find a young Offensive guru. we need to keep pettine at all cost.

no... He needs to focus on the defense exclusively... Head coach has too many non football responsibilities. Frankly, if Mccarthy was just the offensive coordinator we might not be in this predicament.

 

[shockerx]

A new HC will want to pick his staff....that could mean Pettine is out. not good. Im not sure i want a HC that agrees to have someone else pick his staff.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How about we just go Pettine as HC....he can still oversee the D. then find a young Offensive guru. we need to keep pettine at all cost.

Pettine has made it clear that he has no interest in becoming a head coach again.

 

[Dieseljunkie12]

A new HC will want to pick his staff....that could mean Pettine is out. not good. Im not sure i want a HC that agrees to have someone else pick his staff.

While I agree with the sentiment that new coach will want to build his own staff, it will also be the same question or concept of "what's the better alternative?" Me as an incoming coach would see what he is doing with these young guys on defense and be impressed with what he is doing. I would also know the weapons I have on offense and find someone to use the skill sets of the players at hand.

 

[rmontro]

While I agree with the sentiment that new coach will want to build his own staff, it will also be the same question or concept of "what's the better alternative?" Me as an incoming coach would see what he is doing with these young guys on defense and be impressed with what he is doing.

It would be nice to think that an incoming coach would recognize what Pettine is doing and want to keep him on. But usually head coaches have strong opinions and will likely have strong ideas about who should be running the defense, especially if he's a defensive minded coach. Would rather not go in that direction in an offense minded league, though.

Worst case scenario is McCarthy goes to Cleveland (or wherever), and takes Pettine with him.

 

[gopkrs]

It would be nice to think that an incoming coach would recognize what Pettine is doing and want to keep him on. But usually head coaches have strong opinions and will likely have strong ideas about who should be running the defense, especially if he's a defensive minded coach. Would rather not go in that direction in an offense minded league, though.

Worst case scenario is McCarthy goes to Cleveland (or wherever), and takes Pettine with him.

Was it McCarthy who brought in Pettine?

 

[shockerx]

Pettine has made it clear that he has no interest in becoming a head coach again.

Very true he has said that, But this is the Green Bay Packers....Your QB is AR

 

[rmontro]

Was it McCarthy who brought in Pettine?

Yeah, he hired him.

Regarding Pettine, I don't know if I like the idea of a defensive head coach. But maybe it would give us a new identity, being all offense and no defense plagued us for too many years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, he hired him.

Regarding Pettine, I don't know if I like the idea of a defensive head coach. But maybe it would give us a new identity, being all offense and no defense plagued us for too many years.

Personally, I'm actually quite fine with a defensive minded head coach, as long as the Packers also hire a really decent Offensive Coordinator. Hate to beat a dead horse, but when Philbin was brought back, I assumed MM was going to step back a bit and let Joe do more work with the offense, while MM concentrated more on HC duties. Maybe JP is, but sure seems like the same offense MM has been running. Basically, I prefer seeing a HC overseeing a DC and an OC.

 

[sschind]

A new HC will want to pick his staff....that could mean Pettine is out. not good. Im not sure i want a HC that agrees to have someone else pick his staff.

Are you OK with a GM who agrees to have someone else pick his head coach?

Now I do think that part of the reason Murphy changed the typical chain of command was to allow Gute to focus more on players in his first year and I do think that if McCarthy is gone it will be a mutual decision by both parties (Gute and Murphy) I also wouldn't be surprised if Gute had full control over the new hire.

I don't like the idea of promoting Pettine even if he would want the job because, as swhitset says, there is too much responsibility besides running the defense. He's a young guy and even though I understand how the Cleveland job may have soured him on being a HC I could see him changing his mind. If not now then in the future. On the other hand not everyone is cut out to be a HC and not everyone wants to be one. He had his chance and maybe he would rather be known as a great DC than a mediocre head coach.

Regardless, I think he has the defense going in the right direction and I would hate to lose him as DC either way.

Since Poker brought up his name I'll throw this out there. What about Philbin as HC. I know he didn't do well in Miami but lots of head coaches didn't do well in their first jobs. Maybe he is too close to McCarthy in mindset to be considered and maybe its just a big old "hell no" but the Dolphins offense did improve during his tenure. I don't know if he called the plays or if he hired and OC who did that. I could see this a a way to keep Pettine

 

[shockerx]

Are you OK with a GM who agrees to have someone else pick his head coach?

Now I do think that part of the reason Murphy changed the typical chain of command was to allow Gute to focus more on players in his first year and I do think that if McCarthy is gone it will be a mutual decision by both parties (Gute and Murphy) I also wouldn't be surprised if Gute had full control over the new hire.

I don't like the idea of promoting Pettine even if he would want the job because, as swhitset says, there is too much responsibility besides running the defense. He's a young guy and even though I understand how the Cleveland job may have soured him on being a HC I could see him changing his mind. If not now then in the future. On the other hand not everyone is cut out to be a HC and not everyone wants to be one. He had his chance and maybe he would rather be known as a great DC than a mediocre head coach.

Regardless, I think he has the defense going in the right direction and I would hate to lose him as DC either way.

Since Poker brought up his name I'll throw this out there. What about Philbin as HC. I know he didn't do well in Miami but lots of head coaches didn't do well in their first jobs. Maybe he is too close to McCarthy in mindset to be considered and maybe its just a big old "hell no" but the Dolphins offense did improve during his tenure. I don't know if he called the plays or if he hired and OC who did that. I could see this a a way to keep Pettine

I think that is all legit, but at all cost we cannot let Pettine walk, the D is finely pointing up. As for Philbin NO! to much of the same, lets take a chance on the Vikes, Saints or KC offensive coordinators. I just dont know how these guys would react to not picking there staff. we will see

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You know what? I pretty much agree with your entire post. The only thing I take some issue with is that I think you have underrated Alex Smith... but so has most of the NFL My contention is not that Aaron Rodgers is the only problem, but that he does need to get some things fixed. I am also not against replacing McCarthy because I think the Packers may need a change. I am not enthusiastic about the likelihood of success however. Do we want to lose Pettine too?

I like Pettine but there's no reason for the team to "lose" him necessarily. Let's be wildly optimistic and say the Packers are able to hire Lincoln Riley; it's not unreasonable to assume that a first-time NFL HC would like having a guy on staff with as much NFL coaching experience as Pettine on the staff. Plus, if the Packers hire an offensive coach, chances are they aren't going to be working much with the defense so why not keep Pettine around? I mean, I understand that Pettine would like the job (who wouldn't?) but it's not as if the Packers would be passing up on an established, tenured guy. Pettine is a guy that was out of football for a number of years.

I've also wondered if a guy like Josh McDaniels (who I know many don't like, but hear me out) might not have the cache to get Rodgers to do more checking down. He can easily point to the offenses he's built in New England as proof to trust him AND, unlike MM, he has a well established history of using personnel in really innovative ways. Now, again, many aren't fans of McDaniels but if you really want to find a coach that has the gravitas to, perhaps, get Rodgers to be more open to the check down, then you're not going to find anyone better suited to that.