Official 2018 4th round pick: J'mon Moore WR

[sschind]

I think the good news with EQ is this isn't a guy that is doing things off the field that would derail an NFL career, on the contrary, he and his Dad just have a different plan for how he will be extremely successful at his career. EQ is a 4.0 student, his 2 brothers same, his parents both extremely smart and goal oriented. Could their way of doing things and the Packers way of doing things not workout well? Sure. But if they do work, the upside on a 6th round pick could be really good.

I actually want to try and find the full version of this HBO edition, but just this portion is small window to who this family is:

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BTW, this is EQ's dad when he was a 2 time Mr. Universe and 3 time Mr. World. Guessing he knows a bit about training.

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So which kid is in the middle and did he get even with his brothers for taking the hair clippers to his head while he napped on the couch?

 

[Mondio]

If your S&C staff on your NFL team doesn’t know what they’re doing, the solution it to hire a new one, not to just have everyone go by what their dads say.

probably not, but if that dad and mom have raised 3 sons like this, maybe they should listen?

at the end of the day, I don't care if someone does box jumps or deadlifts, wears a weighted vest or carries a barbell on the shoulders. I don't care if they use a machine or functional movements. Been around long enough to see the old become new and the new become obsolete a few times over already. There are a lot of ways to train. A lot of ways to get hurt and heal. If a kid can run that fast and be that tall and strong enough that the coaches and FO want to pick him to come play for us. Then I'd only care that whatever workout he was doing was being done hard and with goals in mind rather than he do exactly "this". if he's not hitting benchmarks or goals then things become more serious in how much leeway they get.

 

[Dantés]

probably not, but if that dad and mom have raised 3 sons like this, maybe they should listen?

at the end of the day, I don't care if someone does box jumps or deadlifts, wears a weighted vest or carries a barbell on the shoulders. I don't care if they use a machine or functional movements. Been around long enough to see the old become new and the new become obsolete a few times over already. There are a lot of ways to train. A lot of ways to get hurt and heal. If a kid can run that fast and be that tall and strong enough that the coaches and FO want to pick him to come play for us. Then I'd only care that whatever workout he was doing was being done hard and with goals in mind rather than he do exactly "this". if he's not hitting benchmarks or goals then things become more serious in how much leeway they get.

I don't care about any single piece of the minutiae. I care about whether or not the kid is coachable and wants to be part of a team.

 

[Dantés]

I think that is part of the point here, does Mark Lovat actually control what all 90 guys do from start to finish? Does he give them some leeway in things that they like to do? Or is it his way or the highway? These are 90 guys who have found their way to the NFL via different programs, different methods of success. I am sure Lovat is a smart enough guy to know that there is not just one way to achieve his goals.

Now when it comes to team drills on the field, I would expect EQ to know that he does what the team does.

Unless, he has a note from his Mommy saying he has a boo boo.

I would suspect that's the case. Which is why I've said I'm sure things are individualized and that he can collaborate with the kid. However, that's different from St. Brown say "no thank you, I'm just going to do the workout that my dad made me." And again, I have no knowledge that he will do that. We're just talking hypothetically. Because realistically, I believe it's those hypotheticals that cause him to be there at the tail end of the 6th round.

 

[Jerellh528]

From what I’ve seen and heard throughout most sports including football, in the offseason generally the individual player is on his own program as far as diet and exercise regimen. Teams can stipulate a player not go sky diving or swim with sharks or dangerous stuff like that, but in workouts there is more freedom. Especially considering each player is an individual with workouts, styles, and methods that cater to his individual body. All bodies don’t respond the same to regimens the same way.

 

[swhitset]

From what I’ve seen and heard throughout most sports including football, in the offseason generally the individual player is on his own program as far as diet and exercise regimen. Teams can stipulate a player not go sky diving or swim with sharks or dangerous stuff like that, but in workouts there is more freedom. Especially considering each player is an individual with workouts, styles, and methods that cater to his individual body. All bodies don’t respond the same to regimens the same way.

It seems to me that we have missed the point for all of the minutiae...The only thing I am interested in regarding this topic is... why has it become a topic in the first place? I don't know any of the details that made this become an issue. I couldn't care less about individual training regiments, but I do care about how a player develops and progresses as part of the team... If he is alienating the coaches ... he will not succeed, and in that case he will be a waste of effort.

There are a lot of "IFs" in the above... I would guess most of this will be a non issue.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It seems to me that we have missed the point for all of the minutiae...The only thing I am interested in regarding this topic is... why has it become a topic in the first place? I don't know any of the details that made this become an issue. I couldn't care less about individual training regiments, but I do care about how a player develops and progresses as part of the team... If he is alienating the coaches ... he will not succeed, and in that case he will be a waste of effort.

There are a lot of "IFs" in the above... I would guess most of this will be a non issue.

Come on man, get on board with the debate and help us solve the predicted issues that a 6th round pick could have. I mean maybe if we had all done this back in 2014, Janis would still be a Packer and a starter to boot!

My only question is how did we end up debating this in the wrong thread and a Mod hasn't shut it down yet?

 

[Dantés]

Back on Moore:

The positives have been well covered. He's big, exceptionally athletic, and was highly productive at the highest level of college football.

Here are the negatives, as I see them:

His production against top talent has been lacking. He had four games in the last two seasons against ranked SEC opponents (#10 Auburn and #2 Georgia in 2017; #19 LSU and #20 Florida in 2016) and came away with a total line of: 5/74/1. That's total production combined from four games.

Secondly, he is coming from an offense that asked him to line up on one side of the field all the time and run a very limited route tree. Thus his route running is in need of a lot of work.

He's a project to be sure, albeit a talented one.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Back on Moore:

The positives have been well covered. He's big, exceptionally athletic, and was highly productive at the highest level of college football.

Here are the negatives, as I see them:

His production against top talent has been lacking. He had four games in the last two seasons against ranked SEC opponents (#10 Auburn and #2 Georgia in 2017; #19 LSU and #20 Florida in 2016) and came away with a total line of: 5/74/1. That's total production combined from four games.

Secondly, he is coming from an offense that asked him to line up on one side of the field all the time and run a very limited route tree. Thus his route running is in need of a lot of work.

He's a project to be sure, albeit a talented one.

Good thoughts. Sometimes it's hard to accurately interpret stats of individual games. Missouri wasn't a real powerhouse and was dominated in those games you mentioned. They lost all 4 games by a combined score of 186-63. So was he just really well covered (by their #1 CB), not thrown to much or did he just perform badly? Guess that is where looking at individual game film gives you answers.

You left out one game in 2016 against a top 20 team, W. Virginia. In that game he had 8 catches for 104 yds. Missouri still lost 26-11.

 

[Mondio]

Come on man, get on board with the debate and help us solve the predicted issues that a 6th round pick could have. I mean maybe if we had all done this back in 2014, Janis would still be a Packer and a starter to boot!

My only question is how did we end up debating this in the wrong thread and a Mod hasn't shut it down yet?

ha, i just noticed what thread this was in, sorry J'mon

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ha, i just noticed what thread this was in, sorry J'mon

See now, if our parents had raised us as well as EQ's did to pay attention to detail, none of this would have happened!

 

[sschind]

I don't care about any single piece of the minutiae. I care about whether or not the kid is coachable and wants to be part of a team.

It seems to me that we have missed the point for all of the minutiae...The only thing I am interested in regarding this topic is... why has it become a topic in the first place? I don't know any of the details that made this become an issue. I couldn't care less about individual training regiments, but I do care about how a player develops and progresses as part of the team... If he is alienating the coaches ... he will not succeed, and in that case he will be a waste of effort.

There are a lot of "IFs" in the above... I would guess most of this will be a non issue.

What I want to know is why I wasn't informed of the Packer Forum official word of the day.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We have people appointing King, Alexander and Jackson ahead of Tramon right now. It's not surprising people are appointing a 4th round pick ahead of Allison.

I understand fans appointing a first round pick as well as another player who was projected to possibly picked with the top 32 as starters but have a hard time with designating a day three pick as such.

To me that's an extremely pedestrian group of weapons for Rodgers. It's probably the worst I've felt heading into a season about our receiving weapons the last few years.

Love Adams

Cobb is a good slot WR

Graham to me might be the worst contract handed out this offseason and is nothing more then a big WR that can be a redzone threat

I like Allison but he's still only pretty average

Monty hasn't played WR full time in 3 years

Davis probably won't make the team

Clark is nice but not a guy I feel comfortable with getting a ton of snaps

Hopefully one of the rookies emerges but it's not like these were high round picks. If Moore is the only one that makes the roster nobody should bat an eye.

We went into the offseason knowing we needed to add speed on the outside and did none of that but instead added a big WR that's only been able to excel with a HoFer throwing him the ball, (or in other words the type of guy many make good reasons not to throw big money at), and one mid round and two late round rookie WRs that may not make the team.

They really need to Jones to keep progressing. If that happens they'll still be fine with Rodgers. If not we're one Adam's headshot away from this offense going down the tubes again with the other peremiter weapons

In my opinion the Packers receiving corps will be fine as long as Adams, Cobb and Graham stay healthy. It would help a lot if one of Allison, Moore, Valdes-Scantling or St. Brown have an impact as well though.

If one of the 3 wrs we drafted doesn’t supplant Geronimo then we’re not in good shape imo. I expect at least moore to, as a senior he’s got enough reps at the position to have a good understanding to make an impact immediately.

If I had to guess I would go with St. Brown having the best chance of contributing immediately.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Allison isn't going anywhere. The Packers offense is complicated enough and if you combine that with the chemistry required with #12, it is going to be difficult for any of the 3 rookies to come in and be a big contributor in 2018. If one of them does, that is a bonus, but we probably won't see that develop until mid to late season.

I still feel that if the Packers aren't 100% confident in GMO being an every game player, they need to keep their eyes open for a FA that is. History has proven that all of our WR's don't stay healthy during a season and I don't want to even think about the offense if Adams and/or Cobb go down for an extended period of time.

Love the 3 rookie WR's as well as the potential of Clark, but I hope we aren't having to rely on any of them to contribute much in 2018.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Allison isn't going anywhere. The Packers offense is complicated enough and if you combine that with the chemistry required with #12, it is going to be difficult for any of the 3 rookies to come in and be a big contributor in 2018. If one of them does, that is a bonus, but we probably won't see that develop until mid to late season.

I still feel that if the Packers aren't 100% confident in GMO being an every game player, they need to keep their eyes open for a FA that is. History has proven that all of our WR's don't stay healthy during a season and I don't want to even think about the offense if Adams and/or Cobb go down for an extended period of time.

Love the 3 rookie WR's as well as the potential of Clark, but I hope we aren't having to rely on any of them to contribute much in 2018.

The pickings are currently pretty slim in free agency though with Eric Decker and Jeremy Maclin most likely presenting the most decent options.

 

[AmishMafia]

Allison isn't going anywhere. The Packers offense is complicated enough and if you combine that with the chemistry required with #12, it is going to be difficult for any of the 3 rookies to come in and be a big contributor in 2018. If one of them does, that is a bonus, but we probably won't see that develop until mid to late season.

I still feel that if the Packers aren't 100% confident in GMO being an every game player, they need to keep their eyes open for a FA that is. History has proven that all of our WR's don't stay healthy during a season and I don't want to even think about the offense if Adams and/or Cobb go down for an extended period of time.

Love the 3 rookie WR's as well as the potential of Clark, but I hope we aren't having to rely on any of them to contribute much in 2018.

We have Adams, Graham, Cobb, and Allison or Clark. That is probably 70% of the catches. Figure 20% for RBs and Kendricks and we don't have a lot of passes to go around.

I think the criticisms of Cobb are overblown. I think be will provide a great option to Rodgers this season.

As far as the rookies go, I would teach them only 12 plays each (different plays for each with some overlap). Make sure they get those plays completely understood and add a few during the season as they progress. Play em depending on the particular matchup, but a smaller playbook will allow them to be more effective as rookies. Let em split time during games each with their proffered routes. But use all 3 to stretch the field. It will be a matchup problem as they need to cover Adam's with their #1. J'mon and the others are tough matchups and they will have to assign someone with some talent at CB to cover them. That leaves less CB talent to cover Graham, Cobb, and/or Geronimo.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I do love the potential of Michael Clark, but given that his background in Football is not quite as extensive as even the rookies, I think he is going to have to make a huge step up to make the roster.

I am hoping that the most difficult decision the Packers face at WR in September is "who can we safely slide over to the PS?"

I see the WR group looking like:

1. Adams
2. Cobb
3. Allison
4. Moore or EQ
5. EQ or Moore

Clark, Davis, MVS

With Graham, I doubt the Packers keep a 7th WR, but will keep 3 TE's, 3 HB's and 1 FB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The pickings are currently pretty slim in free agency though with Eric Decker and Jeremy Maclin most likely presenting the most decent options.

Don't forget about Dez. I agree, but there are other ways to acquire a WR. Again, if the Packers aren't extremely confident in Allison stepping into a starting role, I think they need to do whatever they have to in order to improve the position for 2018.

 

[Jerellh528]

I definitely don’t think Allison is safe for a roster spot.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We have Adams, Graham, Cobb, and Allison or Clark. That is probably 70% of the catches. Figure 20% for RBs and Kendricks and we don't have a lot of passes to go around.

I think the criticisms of Cobb are overblown. I think be will provide a great option to Rodgers this season.

As far as the rookies go, I would teach them only 12 plays each (different plays for each with some overlap). Make sure they get those plays completely understood and add a few during the season as they progress. Play em depending on the particular matchup, but a smaller playbook will allow them to be more effective as rookies. Let em split time during games each with their proffered routes. But use all 3 to stretch the field. It will be a matchup problem as they need to cover Adam's with their #1. J'mon and the others are tough matchups and they will have to assign someone with some talent at CB to cover them. That leaves less CB talent to cover Graham, Cobb, and/or Geronimo.

The Packers would have to keep six wide receivers active on game day for that to work though. Maybe even another in Davis if he makes the team as a returner.

With Graham, I doubt the Packers keep a 7th WR, but will keep 3 TE's, 3 HB's and 1 FB.

In my opinion there's a possibilty the team enters this season with only Graham and Kendricks at tight end.

I definitely don’t think Allison is safe for a roster spot.

I fully expect Allison to make the roster.

 

[Sanguine camper]

GMO had a huge fumble vs Carolina that cost the Packets the chance to tie the game at the end. IMO, GMO can get separation. He will make the team or get cut based upon how he hangs on to the ball. I think that fumble put him in jeopardy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

GMO had a huge fumble vs Carolina that cost the Packets the chance to tie the game at the end. IMO, GMO can get separation. He will make the team or get cut based upon how he hangs on to the ball. I think that fumble put him in jeopardy.

I don't think one fumble is going to cost a decent player his job, now a guy like Brandon Bostick, maybe. Allison will only be in his 3rd year and has only had 61 balls thrown his way. For the most part, he has looked ok when out there filling in and it's kind of hard to grade any of the Packer WR's that had to play with Hundley last year . Unless the Packers sign a vet WR between now and Sept. I think that #3 WR spot is GMO's to win or lose. I would love to see a rookie blow everyone away and earn the spot, but I don't expect it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

GMO had a huge fumble vs Carolina that cost the Packets the chance to tie the game at the end. IMO, GMO can get separation. He will make the team or get cut based upon how he hangs on to the ball. I think that fumble put him in jeopardy.

True, Allison's fumble vs. Carolina was huge. He has to improve in that area as he already has fumbled twice on only 35 touches in the NFL.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I've had a chance to look at the available Moore tape. A couple of observations.

First the issue of speed. There's the 4.60 Combine vs. the 4.49 Pro Day. To my eye, the first thing that jumps out at me on the tape is his long speed puts him the 4.5 range...sometimes. He's a little slow getting rolling but once in stride he's moving...sometimes. The quickness indicated by the outstanding 4.05 / 6.56 shuttle and cone (I believe both times were best among WRs at this Combine) shows on tape in his breaks and comebacks...sometimes. He shows soft hands...sometimes. He makes good body adjustments on sideline throws (which seem to be the predominant throws he received)...sometimes.

The guy is exceptionally inconsistent . On one play he looks like the next Nelson with polished technique; on the next he looks like an ordinary undraftable college football player. Sometimes he made sharp route adjustments and got flying. Sometimes he allowed himself to get caught up with the corner and went nowhere. The long speed is in evidence when unencumbered. He looks slower when the corner maintains contact. On one contested ball he looks great; on the next outplayed when he shouldn't be. For a guy who did 20 lifts at the Combine, he should not have problems with getting off contact but he often does.

I don't see where Missouri had him running many inside routes. He's had drop issues and those may be in the middle of the field. I saw one such drop on an uncontested ball. They sure didn't use his quickness out of his breaks for those routes, and I saw a couple where he was open on them but the QB passed him up.

The only consistent thing about Moore is he's always a willing blocker.

I couldn't venture to give this pick a grade. His game lacks the kind of play-in-play-out consistency required. Contact or threat of contact seems to thow off his focus. Can that change? Sure. Will it? Who knows at this juncture. He'll probably show well in the unpadded practices.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've had a chance to look at the available Moore tape. A couple of observations.

First the issue of speed. There's the 4.60 Combine vs. the 4.49 Pro Day. To my eye, the first thing that jumps out at me on the tape is his long speed puts him the 4.5 range...sometimes. He's a little slow getting rolling but but once in stride he's moving...sometimes. The quickness indicated by the outstanding 4.05 / 6.56 shuttle and cone (I believe both times were best among WRs at this Combine) shows on tape in his breaks and comebacks...sometimes. He shows soft hands...sometimes. He makes good body adjustments on sideline throws (which seem to be the predominant throws he received)...sometimes.

The guy is exceptionally inconsistent . On one play he looks like the next Nelson with polished technique; on the next he looks like an ordinary undraftable college football player. Sometimes he made sharp route adjustments and got flying. Sometimes he allowed himself to get caught up with the corner and went nowhere. The long speed is in evidence when unencumbered. He looks slower when the corner maintains contact. On one contested ball he looks great; on the next outplayed when he shouldn't be. For a guy who did 20 lifts at the Combine, he should not have problems with getting off contact but he often does.

I don't see where Missouri had him running many inside routes. He's had drop issues and those may be in the middle of the field. I saw one such drop on an uncontested ball. They sure didn't use his quickness out of his breaks for those routes, and I saw a couple where he was open on them but the QB passed him up.

The only consistent thing about Moore is he's always a willing blocker.

I couldn't venture to give this pick a grade. His game lacks the kind of play-in-play-out consistency required. Contact or threat of contact seems to thow off his focus. Can that change? Sure. Will it? Who knows at this juncture. He'll probably show well in the unpadded practices.

Everything you said....is why....sometimes....these guys are still around in the 4th round