Official 2018 4th round pick: J'mon Moore WR

[PikeBadger]

I really like Moore’s ability to make the first defender miss by use of change of speed. Watching his highlights it makes me think that he has an intuitive ability to elude people and get into the open field. He looks slick and smooth to me.

 

[AmishMafia]

To answer everyone, I know I'm illogical on my vertical scenario, but I'm allowed to be eccentric, just like any real NFL GM.



I still would have drafted St. Brown no later than the 4th, and Valdez-Scantling in the 6th or 7th. But the Browns jumping up to draft Callaway in the 5th? I shat a brick.

If I was within a stones throw of normal, I might have a basis to criticize you.

I really like Moore’s ability to make the first defender miss by use of change of speed. Watching his highlights it makes me think that he has an intuitive ability to elude people and get into the open field. He looks slick and smooth to me.

It was such a deep year for 2nd level WRs, otherwise you never get a shot at players like this in the 4th round. I think he will need to add a little bulk before he is really effective.

 

[easyk83]

Who runs routes better? Who can learn a playbook better? Don't know the answers but I know there is way more to being a good wr than size and speed. And Moore's pro day 40 matched what Brown did at the combine. And both are plenty tall enough

Rodgers can be a picky eater. Aaron wants a receiver who reads defenses like a quarterback and can adjust routes accordingly, this is partly why we've had such a slow crop of receivers. It's likely that the scouts, after interviewing both, concluded that Moore was a better fit for our offense. Granted it's a moot point as we have both, and also the Packers weren't the only team to pass on St. Moore in the 4th round.

 

[MassPackersFan]

Rodgers can be a picky eater. Aaron wants a receiver who reads defenses like a quarterback and can adjust routes accordingly, this is partly why we've had such a slow crop of receivers. It's likely that the scouts, after interviewing both, concluded that Moore was a better fit for our offense. Granted it's a moot point as we have both, and also the Packers weren't the only team to pass on St. Moore in the 4th round.

This is a problem I have with this offensive scheme, where so many routes seem to be "option" routes. For one, I think the receivers have to run them a bit slower. And two, if a defender knows this, they can essentially dictate the route by how they play it. I'm no expert so I could be wrong.

Anyway, I love what I've seen from Moore. He seems capable of creating space, and YAC.

 

[Dantés]

This is a problem I have with this offensive scheme, where so many routes seem to be "option" routes. For one, I think the receivers have to run them a bit slower. And two, if a defender knows this, they can essentially dictate the route by how they play it. I'm no expert so I could be wrong.

Anyway, I love what I've seen from Moore. He seems capable of creating space, and YAC.

I’m not an expert either, but I do know that the option routes, though difficult to get right, make it much harder for opposing teams to develop a winning strategy via tape study.

 

[easyk83]

I’m not an expert either, but I do know that the option routes, though difficult to get right, make it much harder for opposing teams to develop a winning strategy via tape study.

Truth be told the offense has been making much more use of man beater route combinations in which the receiver likely wouldnt have an option route beyond some basic adjustments.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I’m not sure why EQ slipped to Round 6 with J’Mon Moore going ahead of him. EQ is tall, fast, and a decent route runner from a major program. He does look like he needs to add weight and muscle. He’s thin and lanky and could be broken in half catching passes in the seam.

Anyone have any idea?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Good God man, he is this year Yancy Dupree or was it Deangelo Malachi. No wait, maybe he will be the next Jareff Abbrejanis.

Seriously though, I have hopes for all these guys but I am done through getting excited about any day 3 Packer WRs. At least I can root for our new punter.

The punter may be the safest bet out of the bunch as far as being able to come in and compete immediately. A lot of people though Rd 5 was too soon. I’m guessing he’d have been gone Rd 6. Along with the LS, and that Alexander can return kicks, we’ve upgraded STs, which usually gets forgotten about until someone loses a game. I’m ok with these picks, especially with the dearth of talent at Edge.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Moore is 6'3" 207, his agility drills and vertical jump were excellent, and he has 127 catches, 2094 yards, and 18 touchdowns against SEC competition the last two years.

What is he doing "off your board?"

Pretty good point Dantes. Too athletic, too accomplished to pass up on. SEC experience certainly doesn’t hurt. I thought EQ would be the first WR picked by GB. He lasted until Rd 6. That’s why I’m not the GM.......

 

[Poppa San]

I’m not sure why EQ slipped to Round 6 with J’Mon Moore going ahead of him. EQ is tall, fast, and a decent route runner from a major program. He does look like he needs to add weight and muscle. He’s thin and lanky and could be broken in half catching passes in the seam.

Anyone have any idea?

Maybe because Moore is tall, fast, with very good production in a decent program in the detestably best conference in college football?

 

[brandon2348]

I didn't follow him after the combine when he ran that 4.63 40. The way I do my "scouting" the combine should make me more interested not less, so some players just automatically fall off my boards.

But since you guys posted Pro Day numbers I'm not so steamed about the pick, especially since we got 2 of the guys I wanted anyway.

And Kansas City ran away with Kareem Hunt in the 3rd round last year because of that 40 thing.

 

[Dantés]

Pretty good point Dantes. Too athletic, too accomplished to pass up on. SEC experience certainly doesn’t hurt. I thought EQ would be the first WR picked by GB. He lasted until Rd 6. That’s why I’m not the GM.......

I’m pretty confident that EQ fell because of his personality and family quirks. There are reports about not listening to strength staff because of his dad and refusing to play special teams. That sort of stuff will drop you on an NFL team’s board real fast. And it should.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I’m ok with these picks, especially with the dearth of talent at Edge.

There weren't a lot of talented edge defenders available but Hercules Mata'afa would have possibly presented an intriguing prospect at that point. I would have preferred selecting him over Scott in the fifth round but it seems every general manager around the league disagreed with me.

 

[Mondio]

I’m pretty confident that EQ fell because of his personality and family quirks. There are reports about not listening to strength staff because of his dad and refusing to play special teams. That sort of stuff will drop you on an NFL team’s board real fast. And it should.

I'm going to be that dad. Especially with the amount of 12-15 year olds with all these club baseball teams with former players that really care for their well being and development with elbow, hip, shoulder problems we see because though they may know how to teach baseball fundamentals, they know **** about building a stable base from which to do it from. I remember when every dad wanted their kid to be a pitcher, now there is no way in hell I want my kid anywhere near a mound till he's 16. If he's good they'll have him used by before he's 16 anyway. It may be a bit different in college, but if your dad has been your advocate your entire life and has put you on a good path for physical health, good luck over coming that. Can make it a PITA as a coach I guess, but if the guy is talented enough, find a way to make it work. there are worst traits a kid can have than a strong family and they seem to work with those on a regular basis. The not playing special teams thing would put someone back in my eyes though, not a team player. But disagreeing with a trainer on how to take care of myself? If they can't convince me why I should listen to them, they shouldn't be offended when I don't.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’m pretty confident that EQ fell because of his personality and family quirks. There are reports about not listening to strength staff because of his dad and refusing to play special teams. That sort of stuff will drop you on an NFL team’s board real fast. And it should.

Continuing with Mondio's post, which I think was a very good one, EQ's "family issues" concern me a lot less than drafting a guy with a bunch of off field arrests, suspensions, etc. In the case of EQ, some might see him as a kid who will be difficult to coach because of the parental involvement in his life up to this point. Perhaps it will be, but I think once EQ and his family realize that the NFL is different than college in the fact that players aren't pampered, for fear that they might transfer to another school. EQ and his family will have no choice but to get with the program or be out of the NFL and the sooner they realize this, the better the chance he will be successful at his new career.

 

[Dantés]

I'm going to be that dad. Especially with the amount of 12-15 year olds with all these club baseball teams with former players that really care for their well being and development with elbow, hip, shoulder problems we see because though they may know how to teach baseball fundamentals, they know **** about building a stable base from which to do it from. I remember when every dad wanted their kid to be a pitcher, now there is no way in hell I want my kid anywhere near a mound till he's 16. If he's good they'll have him used by before he's 16 anyway. It may be a bit different in college, but if your dad has been your advocate your entire life and has put you on a good path for physical health, good luck over coming that. Can make it a PITA as a coach I guess, but if the guy is talented enough, find a way to make it work. there are worst traits a kid can have than a strong family and they seem to work with those on a regular basis. The not playing special teams thing would put someone back in my eyes though, not a team player. But disagreeing with a trainer on how to take care of myself? If they can't convince me why I should listen to them, they shouldn't be offended when I don't.

A few thoughts occur to me.

You're talking 12-15 year olds' baseball coaches. St. Brown was at the university of Notre Dame. I think the contexts are a little different. Furthermore, I would worry about letting a rookie dictate his strength and conditioning program. If he does that, where does it end? If you let him do his own thing, then wouldn't every player have the expectation that the team's program is optional? This is speculative, but my sense is that you're talking about a quasi-crazy helicopter dad and not just a concerned parent. You're talking about professional trainers with years of experience in this particular sport vs. a former Mr. Universe. Who needs to "convince" who?

Secondly, like you said, the special teams thing is far more concerning to me. If he is a good player who is a little quirky about how he works out and you find a way around it, that's one thing. If he's coming in and telling the coaching staff how he will or won't be used, then he can enjoy Buffalo.

I don't mind the pick because it's late enough that if he's a diva, you can cut him without really be out of much and the upshot of his talent is worth the roll of the dice. But if the reports of what he/his dad were up to at Notre Dame are accurate, he better not try to pull that crap in Green Bay.

 

[thequick12]

Looks like it's gonna be Adams and Moore outside and Cobb in the slot with Graham at Te no matter whose at running back that's a scary group of weapons for Rodgers. Montgomery is wr Aaron Jones struggled as a rookie but in college was very good and Williams who is say is the worst of the 3 averaged 10 yards a catch. Moore goes in 2nd round if he runs that 4.48 at the combine

 

[Mondio]

just because they're in college or the pros doesn't mean they're right. You'd be surprised what some of these guys say and believe at any and all levels. There are 14thousand variables to every situation. Do I trust my dad who's guided me my entire life well? Or some guy contradicting him who can't convince me his way is "better"?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Looks like it's gonna be Adams and Moore outside and Cobb in the slot with Graham at Te no matter whose at running back that's a scary group of weapons for Rodgers.

It's way premature to appoint Moore as the starter opposite of Adams.

 

[Mondio]

A few thoughts occur to me.

You're talking 12-15 year olds' baseball coaches. St. Brown was at the university of Notre Dame. I think the contexts are a little different. Furthermore, I would worry about letting a rookie dictate his strength and conditioning program. If he does that, where does it end? If you let him do his own thing, then wouldn't every player have the expectation that the team's program is optional? This is speculative, but my sense is that you're talking about a quasi-crazy helicopter dad and not just a concerned parent. You're talking about professional trainers with years of experience in this particular sport vs. a former Mr. Universe. Who needs to "convince" who?

Secondly, like you said, the special teams thing is far more concerning to me. If he is a good player who is a little quirky about how he works out and you find a way around it, that's one thing. If he's coming in and telling the coaching staff how he will or won't be used, then he can enjoy Buffalo.

I don't mind the pick because it's late enough that if he's a diva, you can cut him without really be out of much and the upshot of his talent is worth the roll of the dice. But if the reports of what he/his dad were up to at Notre Dame are accurate, he better not try to pull that crap in Green Bay.

To address the rest of this more fully, to start, I don't know what the reports are of what they tried to pull at Notre Dame. If it was about a kid being in control of his strength and conditioning program or nutrition program or what meds or surgeries he would or wouldn't do, I will stand behind him and his dad's right to fully make all those decisions. I will support him to make those decisions in the NFL as well. They can control your position on the field, the amount you can play, what opportunities you will get etc. They will never have control over what is put in my body or how I get it ready, the best way I see fit. If I trust my trainer, i trust my trainer. If I trust myself, I trust myself. If I trust my dad, I trust my dad.

In the end, if I am not physically able to play the game, it hurts only me. I have to live with this body during and after football as well. There are no trade secrets when it comes to nutrition and conditioning. It's all right there for anyone to see, and learn and implement. If the kid in front of me is in physical shape to play football, what exactly is the issue? At the end of the day all they should care about is, Can this kid play. If he can, do I care if he's running hills instead of parachute sprints? Do I care if he's doing front squats or single leg hungarian box stuff? If he's not injuring himself in workouts, do I really care? should I? and when it comes to meds or surgery, i'm sorry, no coach or trainer gets any say over what is done to someone's body if that person doesn't want to allow them to. There is enough info pro and con to almost every procedure for every condition out there. if I guy doesn't want to get "shot up" and play because he values his achilles tendons, that's his choice. and if he's not good enough to keep in the training room for a week and let him come back in a week or 2, then cut him. If he is, don't hold it against him just because he chose to let it heal and preserve the body he has to live with forever rather than increase his chances of tendon rupture or knee issues because you shot him up to numb pain then had to tape and lock his ankle so severely because his proprioception was shot that resulted in abnormal forces in his knee.

Now if his issues are, I 'm not running that pattern because i can get hit from the blindside. or I'm too good to be a 3rd option on that play so I'm only going to run route #1. Or I'm too special for special teams. Then I have problems with it. Though if in some way the NFL was the goal and he chose to make it there on WR skills alone knowing his refusal to play special teams would hurt him in the end. Well he gambled on himself and won so far. if his only way to make the team are to play special teams and he choses not to, well then he gambled on himself and will lose. so be it. But if a trainer is telling me I have ankle mobility problems but the trainer I trust is telling me I have good mobility but a stability problem higher up, i'm going to listen to the trainer I trust. It's my body. If I can physically perform my job, the other trainer and staff can take their hurt feelings and stick them somewhere

If I can't physically do my job, then I'll get sent home.

 

[Dantés]

To address the rest of this more fully, to start, I don't know what the reports are of what they tried to pull at Notre Dame. If it was about a kid being in control of his strength and conditioning program or nutrition program or what meds or surgeries he would or wouldn't do, I will stand behind him and his dad's right to fully make all those decisions. I will support him to make those decisions in the NFL as well. They can control your position on the field, the amount you can play, what opportunities you will get etc. They will never have control over what is put in my body or how I get it ready, the best way I see fit. If I trust my trainer, i trust my trainer. If I trust myself, I trust myself. If I trust my dad, I trust my dad.

In the end, if I am not physically able to play the game, it hurts only me. I have to live with this body during and after football as well. There are no trade secrets when it comes to nutrition and conditioning. It's all right there for anyone to see, and learn and implement. If the kid in front of me is in physical shape to play football, what exactly is the issue? At the end of the day all they should care about is, Can this kid play. If he can, do I care if he's running hills instead of parachute sprints? Do I care if he's doing front squats or single leg hungarian box stuff? If he's not injuring himself in workouts, do I really care? should I? and when it comes to meds or surgery, i'm sorry, no coach or trainer gets any say over what is done to someone's body if that person doesn't want to allow them to. There is enough info pro and con to almost every procedure for every condition out there. if I guy doesn't want to get "shot up" and play because he values his achilles tendons, that's his choice. and if he's not good enough to keep in the training room for a week and let him come back in a week or 2, then cut him. If he is, don't hold it against him just because he chose to let it heal and preserve the body he has to live with forever rather than increase his chances of tendon rupture or knee issues because you shot him up to numb pain then had to tape and lock his ankle so severely because his proprioception was shot that resulted in abnormal forces in his knee.

Now if his issues are, I 'm not running that pattern because i can get hit from the blindside. or I'm too good to be a 3rd option on that play so I'm only going to run route #1. Or I'm too special for special teams. Then I have problems with it. Though if in some way the NFL was the goal and he chose to make it there on WR skills alone knowing his refusal to play special teams would hurt him in the end. Well he gambled on himself and won so far. if his only way to make the team are to play special teams and he choses not to, well then he gambled on himself and will lose. so be it. But if a trainer is telling me I have ankle mobility problems but the trainer I trust is telling me I have good mobility but a stability problem higher up, i'm going to listen to the trainer I trust. It's my body. If I can physically perform my job, the other trainer and staff can take their hurt feelings and stick them somewhere

If I can't physically do my job, then I'll get sent home.

My issue is that if you allow one player on your team to dictate to the staff how they are going to train and condition, then you essentially have to let all of them make that choice. Now I'm sure programs are individualized and they should be. But I'm talking about a situation where the team works with him and comes up with a plan for him and he just says "nah." Maybe for all I know this kid and his dad have it all right from a training perspective. But if you just let all players take care of their training, conditioning, and nutrition on their own without input or oversight, I'm guessing you'd see a lot more players who aren't in the proper shape and who are getting injured at a higher rate. I mean, why do teams employ professional training staffs?

Hypothetically, if Cole Madison came into camp and told Campen and Blasko, "My dad and I have the whole OL technique thing under control. You coach the other guys how you want, but I'm gonna be over there doing my own thing," 100% of Packer fans would say he needs to be cut with extreme prejudice. Why should we view it differently when it comes to our strength coaches?

I also reject the notion that Mark Lovat and his staff somehow need to prove that they're worth listening to. He has 20 years with the Packers in this field (i.e. he's been working for the Packers since EQ was 1). He has his Masters Degree in the field. He has all sorts of certifications. His staff has an additional 20 collective years with the Packers. I would argue that this 6th round pick and his dad need to prove to the professionals that they know what they're doing, not the other way around. To me, that's like saying that Mike McCarthy needs to convince all these late round receivers that he's worth listening to. That's not how this works-- they need to prove to him that they're worth his time and effort.

Now like you said, no one can make him or any other player put something in his body that he doesn't want to or do something with his body that he doesn't want to. And that's fine. But my opinion is that if (and it's a total if-- for all I know, he will work with the staff just fine) he decides that he's going to ignore the Packers' staff and do his own thing entirely, then he can kick rocks.

And it would seem that the league agrees. Because he is a day 2 talent that got drafted 207th overall. Hopefully that woke him up.

 

[Mondio]

My issue is that if you allow one player on your team to dictate to the staff how they are going to train and condition, then you essentially have to let all of them make that choice. Now I'm sure programs are individualized and they should be. But I'm talking about a situation where the team works with him and comes up with a plan for him and he just says "nah." Maybe for all I know this kid and his dad have it all right from a training perspective. But if you just let all players take care of their training, conditioning, and nutrition on their own without input or oversight, I'm guessing you'd see a lot more players who aren't in the proper shape and who are getting injured at a higher rate. I mean, why do teams employ professional training staffs?

Hypothetically, if Cole Madison came into camp and told Campen and Blasko, "My dad and I have the whole OL technique thing under control. You coach the other guys how you want, but I'm gonna be over there doing my own thing," 100% of Packer fans would say he needs to be cut with extreme prejudice. Why should we view it differently when it comes to our strength coaches?

I also reject the notion that Mark Lovat and his staff somehow need to prove that they're worth listening to. He has 20 years with the Packers in this field (i.e. he's been working for the Packers since EQ was 1). He has his Masters Degree in the field. He has all sorts of certifications. His staff has an additional 20 collective years with the Packers. I would argue that this 6th round pick and his dad need to prove to the professionals that they know what they're doing, not the other way around. To me, that's like saying that Mike McCarthy needs to convince all these late round receivers that he's worth listening to. That's not how this works-- they need to prove to him that they're worth his time and effort.

Now like you said, no one can make him or any other player put something in his body that he doesn't want to or do something with his body that he doesn't want to. And that's fine. But my opinion is that if (and it's a total if-- for all I know, he will work with the staff just fine) he decides that he's going to ignore the Packers' staff and do his own thing entirely, then he can kick rocks.

And it would seem that the league agrees. Because he is a day 2 talent that got drafted 207th overall. Hopefully that woke him up.

There is no hardline on that stuff. Lots of gray. How they take care of their bodies are a personal choice. How they are going to function within the concept of the game is another. If you want to zig when we want everyone zagging on the field, it's a problem. If you want to do X to prepare yourself to do Y, but we want you to do Z to be physically ready for Y and you are not physically able to do it when the time comes. We have problems. If you are able to, then I guess I don't care much. By all accounts EQ has been and is more than physically capable of playing this game. and trainers aren't like coaches. It's a program and suggestions to get you ready to do stuff. Coaching is, you be here and do this at this spot. Coaching is you're going to run here and do this or you're playing this position. Rules are more hard and fast. Getting yourself physically prepared is a lot more suggestive and loose than hard and fast.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the good news with EQ is this isn't a guy that is doing things off the field that would derail an NFL career, on the contrary, he and his Dad just have a different plan for how he will be extremely successful at his career. EQ is a 4.0 student, his 2 brothers same, his parents both extremely smart and goal oriented. Could their way of doing things and the Packers way of doing things not workout well? Sure. But if they do work, the upside on a 6th round pick could be really good.

I actually want to try and find the full version of this HBO edition, but just this portion is small window to who this family is:

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BTW, this is EQ's dad when he was a 2 time Mr. Universe and 3 time Mr. World. Guessing he knows a bit about training.

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[Mondio]

I just read this https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/09/06/equanimeous-osiris-amonra-st-brown-brothers-family

kind of interesting. They're doing something right as parents, as "weird" as it might seem to the rest of us. Interesting kids to say the least. SAT's in 3 languages? I took my ACT's hungover and thought that was an accomplishment when I scored well. LOL I'm a putz compared to these kids.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just read this https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/09/06/equanimeous-osiris-amonra-st-brown-brothers-family

kind of interesting. They're doing something right as parents, as "weird" as it might seem to the rest of us. Interesting kids to say the least. SAT's in 3 languages? I took my ACT's hungover and thought that was an accomplishment when I scored well. LOL I'm a putz compared to these kids.

LOL......I was reading the same article and this one....

https://247sports.com/college/notre...Equanimeous-father-talks-Notre-Dame-111961067

Like I said in my previous post, I think the upside on this guy is big and if he, his family and the Packers get on the same page, I see a future in the NFL for him.