Offensive Structure

[Tiger]

I just glacned thru this thread but..
Some of you guys talk about Arod like hes Rex Grossman or something, ARod CAN play Quarterback! It would be insulting to see MM "dumb down" the playbook for him, hes been in the system for 3 years now, he wont need any spoon feeding!

Like someone mentoined that MM will up th run percentage of plays, i doubt it, if anything MM will sense that D co-ordinators expect the Packers to run, run, run with an inexperienced QB so he'll open up the passing game, to counter-act the heavy run defense. MM wins games by doing the unconventional and i dont expect him to stop doing this.

 

[Packnic]

Brady has a noodle arm.

Are you serious? Maybe I need to have my eyes adjusted or something. I've always thought that Brady has a very good arm.

theres a reason Brady wasnt drafted till the 6th round and never really beat anyone out of a job in Michigan.

his arm strength. when i say arm strength i dont mean the deep ball. any schmoe can gun a ball down field to Randy Moss. but he lacked zip and the ability to throw across field or thread needles. Name one play last year or any year before that that Tom Brady amazed you with his arm.

Brady was and to some degree still is a very mediocre QB skill wise. Just extremely lucky to be in the situation he has.

of course he has two things that enable him to look as good as he does.
Ice water in his veins (arguably the most important thing a good QB needs), and a coach who makes anyone near him look better than he really is. Put Brady in Houston or Atlanta right now... and he wouldnt win 4 games. They just know what they are doing in New England and it makes Brady look good.

 

[Tiger]

Brady has a noodle arm.

Are you serious? Maybe I need to have my eyes adjusted or something. I've always thought that Brady has a very good arm.

theres a reason Brady wasnt drafted till the 6th round and never really beat anyone out of a job in Michigan.

his arm strength. when i say arm strength i dont mean the deep ball. any schmoe can gun a ball down field to Randy Moss. but he lacked zip and the ability to throw across field or thread needles. Name one play last year or any year before that that Tom Brady amazed you with his arm.

Brady was and to some degree still is a very mediocre QB skill wise. Just extremely lucky to be in the situation he has.

of course he has two things that enable him to look as good as he does.
Ice water in his veins (arguably the most important thing a good QB needs), and a coach who makes anyone near him look better than he really is. Put Brady in Houston or Atlanta right now... and he wouldnt win 4 games. They just know what they are doing in New England and it makes Brady look good.

You cant deny Brady's heart, unselfishness and desire either, hes a guy with average athleticism but the mental edge of a real champion.

 

[Obi1]

Brady has a noodle arm.

Are you serious? Maybe I need to have my eyes adjusted or something. I've always thought that Brady has a very good arm.

theres a reason Brady wasnt drafted till the 6th round and never really beat anyone out of a job in Michigan.

his arm strength. when i say arm strength i dont mean the deep ball. any schmoe can gun a ball down field to Randy Moss. but he lacked zip and the ability to throw across field or thread needles. Name one play last year or any year before that that Tom Brady amazed you with his arm.

Brady was and to some degree still is a very mediocre QB skill wise. Just extremely lucky to be in the situation he has.

of course he has two things that enable him to look as good as he does.
Ice water in his veins (arguably the most important thing a good QB needs), and a coach who makes anyone near him look better than he really is. Put Brady in Houston or Atlanta right now... and he wouldnt win 4 games. They just know what they are doing in New England and it makes Brady look good.

You cant deny Brady's heart, unselfishness and desire either, hes a guy with average athleticism but the mental edge of a real champion.

Ditto!

Weren't there more gifted passers than Starr? Yet he won more than all of them...

Manning, Favre, Brees, all have more physical talent than Brady but Brady has that ability to lead and not make mistakes...

 

[Greg C.]

Brady has a noodle arm.

Are you serious? Maybe I need to have my eyes adjusted or something. I've always thought that Brady has a very good arm.

theres a reason Brady wasnt drafted till the 6th round and never really beat anyone out of a job in Michigan.

his arm strength. when i say arm strength i dont mean the deep ball. any schmoe can gun a ball down field to Randy Moss. but he lacked zip and the ability to throw across field or thread needles. Name one play last year or any year before that that Tom Brady amazed you with his arm.

Brady was and to some degree still is a very mediocre QB skill wise. Just extremely lucky to be in the situation he has.

of course he has two things that enable him to look as good as he does.
Ice water in his veins (arguably the most important thing a good QB needs), and a coach who makes anyone near him look better than he really is. Put Brady in Houston or Atlanta right now... and he wouldnt win 4 games. They just know what they are doing in New England and it makes Brady look good.

Maybe Brady had mediocre skills when he was drafted, but he has honed his game and improved every year. Arm strength is not set in stone at the age of 22. It can be improved through mechanics and developing the right muscles.

Last year Brady continually amazed me by zipping the ball into coverage, hitting his receivers perfectly in stride. Yes, he had a great team around him, but he played as well as any QB I've seen. And I don't like saying that, because I've gotten pretty sick of him and the Patriots over the past few years.

 

[skibum55]

I'm sorry folks, but Favre was not good at the deep ball. for some reason, everyone associates the fact that he could throw the ball really friggin' hard with an ability to throw the deep ball well. Don't get me wrong, Favre threw hard, but there's a lot more to the deep ball than velocity. Rodgers has excellent touch on the long ball. He's also much more patient than Brett. If anything, we will be more of a deep threat with Rodg than with Favre.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Brett Favre have the record for most passes over 50 yards?

Also, in '07, he beat out Tom Brady for most completions over 40 yards.

How many of those 50+ yard plays actually cover the 50+ yards on just the pass. I think you will find that most were in the 10-15 yard range with 35+ YAC.

But I could be wrong. Have been before and will be again, IMHO.

 

[warhawk]

I think many are addressing what our offense will look like in a round about way.
The WCO will be a YAC offense with the guys we have at WR being very good at it. So Rodgers should not have to throw the ball long much other than when they see the need to back the defense off.

McCarthy has said a zillion times he wants to run the ball. If he gets the results they saw in the second half last year on the ground, which I think is key, Rodgers will be fine.

My GUESS is defenses will definately try to take the run away and then rattle a young QB. That means he will have to make the plays to back the defense off which may mean, once again, a few more passes than MM would like to see.

Our run game cannot come out anywhere near as weak as it did at the start of last season. No way we will get away with as many wins if it does.

 

[bozz_2006]

you think the defenses will try to take away the run AND rattle the QB? Those two things are usually talked about in a 'one or the other' scenario.

 

[trippster]

I don't see MM changing a thing. I think that when put in a tight spot Rodgers will pull one out of his a** just like favre did. there will be many times when Rodgers will make throws that will make you wince just as favre. Favre was not unique in this regard.

We won't see a big difference in the play calling except I don't expect Rodger to be as adept as Favre in adjusting at the line and after the snap. That was pure experience.

I think we will see more of the mixups between QB and reciever than in the past. Much like we saw a couple of years ago. Only this time it will be the QB's fault and not the reciever.

 

[trippster]

Brady has a noodle arm.

Are you serious? Maybe I need to have my eyes adjusted or something. I've always thought that Brady has a very good arm.

theres a reason Brady wasnt drafted till the 6th round and never really beat anyone out of a job in Michigan.

his arm strength. when i say arm strength i dont mean the deep ball. any schmoe can gun a ball down field to Randy Moss. but he lacked zip and the ability to throw across field or thread needles. Name one play last year or any year before that that Tom Brady amazed you with his arm.

Brady was and to some degree still is a very mediocre QB skill wise. Just extremely lucky to be in the situation he has.

of course he has two things that enable him to look as good as he does.
Ice water in his veins (arguably the most important thing a good QB needs), and a coach who makes anyone near him look better than he really is. Put Brady in Houston or Atlanta right now... and he wouldnt win 4 games. They just know what they are doing in New England and it makes Brady look good.

There was some guy out west that had a noodle arm too. Can't remember his name...hmmmm. Played well. Won alot of games....Super bowls too. Oh, it was ummm, Joe something.... or was it Bob......Yeah, Bob Montana! no, wait....oh! Joe Montana! Yeah that was the guy...

Never could throw it long...but seemed to put it were it needed to be. He and Brady remind me of each other....

<<<Trippster walking away from discussion mumbling to himself>>>> Yeah, Montana.......that's it...not bob, the other guy...

 

[Pack93z]

There was some guy out west that had a noodle arm too. Can't remember his name...hmmmm. Played well. Won alot of games....Super bowls too. Oh, it was ummm, Joe something.... or was it Bob......Yeah, Bob Montana! no, wait....oh! Joe Montana! Yeah that was the guy...

Never could throw it long...but seemed to put it were it needed to be. He and Brady remind me of each other....

<<<Trippster walking away from discussion mumbling to himself>>>> Yeah, Montana.......that's it...not bob, the other guy...

The makings of a great QB in my opinion is 50 percent physical talent, 50 percent decision making and as another above put it "ice water" in their veins. That is where Montana and Brady look so much alike.. their composure in the pocket is uncanny in how similar it is.. and they are much the same type of QB physical talent wise.

Personally I didn't like Montana and I don't like Brady for one reason.. they make playing the position look to damn easy.. I respect the hell out of their abilities, but there is just something about them.. something around the eyes.. reminds me of.. me... now I really hate'em. 1

<<Wish I had one percent of the talent either of them had>> :shock:

1 - Mandatory Tombstone Quote of the Day

 

[Packnic]

There was some guy out west that had a noodle arm too. Can't remember his name...hmmmm. Played well. Won alot of games....Super bowls too. Oh, it was ummm, Joe something.... or was it Bob......Yeah, Bob Montana! no, wait....oh! Joe Montana! Yeah that was the guy...

Never could throw it long...but seemed to put it were it needed to be. He and Brady remind me of each other....

<<<Trippster walking away from discussion mumbling to himself>>>> Yeah, Montana.......that's it...not bob, the other guy...

The makings of a great QB in my opinion is 50 percent physical talent, 50 percent decision making and as another above put it "ice water" in their veins. That is where Montana and Brady look so much alike.. their composure in the pocket is uncanny in how similar it is.. and they are much the same type of QB physical talent wise.

Personally I didn't like Montana and I don't like Brady for one reason.. they make playing the position look to damn easy.. I respect the hell out of their abilities, but there is just something about them.. something around the eyes.. reminds me of.. me... now I really hate'em. 1

<<Wish I had one percent of the talent either of them had>> :shock:

1 - Mandatory Tombstone Quote of the Day

i agree... they are boring to watch. systematic, mechanical like robots making the programed throw. excellent quarterbacks obviously... two of the greats. but in any other situation you gotta think that they wouldnt have succeeded or at least to the extent they have now.

thats why i think Favre is numero uno on the all time great list. He did it here... but i dont know that had he landing in NY with the jets or stayed in atlanta... that he couldnt have done it there too.

no doubt the situation matters to every QB that has ever played. I just think Favre had the best mixture or Skill and Cool to succeed anywhere.
another words i dont think Brady could have done anything had he played here. where as Favre would have way better numbers than Brady if he played in New England

 

[warhawk]

you think the defenses will try to take away the run AND rattle the QB? Those two things are usually talked about in a 'one or the other' scenario.

What I am saying is that I think defenses will try to stop the run game and THEN go after Rodgers when we are forced to pass. I agree it's one or the other and that's how I see teams going after us.

I think because Rodgers is inexperienced the opposing teams will want him to carry as much of the load as possible for beating them and letting the Pack run it takes him off the hook.

I also think that will be harder said then done with this offense and the options the QB is given at the line of scrimmage. Because I believe teams will try to stop the run we may see more run plays switched to passes at the line by Rodgers.

IF he calls it right and makes the plays it will back the defense off and then we can run it better. I think that IF is what DC's will want him to prove.

So I look for more pass then run because of what Rodgers sees at the line of scrimmage early in games and more running plays after he burns their ***. At least that's what I HOPE I'm looking at. Otherwise I might be looking at UGLY and I don't need that since I see it every day (in the mirror).

 

[Pack93z]

I think D's might attack the Packers offense a little different this year.. I think it will be two parts they will focus on..

1) Jumping the short routes in the passing game.. make Rodgers throw over the coverage so to speak.. make him make the throws to beat you.. not the short quick rythmners that should be easy pickins.. With Favre and his gun for a right arm.. defenses weren't going to welcome the chance of him picking apart the mid range part of the field..

2) The defenses have a book on the Packers running game and weakness.. they are going to attack that interior of the Packers line until it is proven by the Packers that they have it solved.. que up the Giants tape.. they focused alot of the stunts inside and made those boys look silly..

 

[bozz_2006]

good post, warhawk

 

[Zombieslayer]

How many of those 50+ yard plays actually cover the 50+ yards on just the pass. I think you will find that most were in the 10-15 yard range with 35+ YAC.

But I could be wrong. Have been before and will be again, IMHO.

How many of Tom Brady's passes to Moss were catch and run? This argument is silly. But, if you must....

In '07, the 57 yard TD to Gregorious Jennings against the San Diego Chargers was a ten yard pass and Gregorious took it to the house. So scratch this one off the list.

Against the Broncos, Brett Favre threw not one, but 2 deep bombs that covered 50+ yards in the air - one to JJ which was for 79 yards. The other was an 82-yard pass to Gregorious Jennings. It was this game where he broke the record of the most TD passes of 75+ yards with 13. A pretty impressive feat, don't you think?

I remember after this game, the Favre bashers were saying it was a fluke. That Favre can't throw the deep ball and just happened to throw 2 deep balls that both were complete against the Broncos (who by the way may have had the best CB set in the NFL in '07, so that makes it even more impressive).

So, next week, Brett Lorenzo Favre and the Green Bay Packers travel to Kansas City to play the Chiefs. Once again, Brett heaves a deep one to Gregorious Jennings, this time for 60 yards. It's questionable if it was 50 yards in the air or not. I'll give you that. Not sure. I'll have to watch the video again.

Against the Oakland Raiders, he hit Gregorious for an 80-yard bomb. And yes, I'll readily admit that the 46-yard TD to Donald Lee was a catch and run and Lee gets the credit for breaking two tackles (and making their DBs look silly).

As for the 90 yard TD pass to Donald Driver against the Giants in the Playoffs, it looked like it may have been under 50 yards, but you have to admit, it was a beautiful deep pass. Donald Driver too gets some credit for breaking one tackle and taking it to the house.

I don't see the argument here. It's just downright silly. I'd have to go back to watch the tape of all of Favre's long TDs and see how much yardage was YAC and how much was in the air. But I did prove to you in '07 because I have the '07 tapes handy, that in '07, Favre RULED at the deep ball, easily kicking Brady's *** (who was #2 at the deep ball in '07).

So, let's take everyone who ever threw a 50+ yard TD and analyze the tapes and see how much of that 50 yards was in the air. I bet you will be very disappointed to see that the Green Bay Packers aren't the only team that ever had YAC, that a lot of those 50+ yard TDs were partially earned by the WR. That's how it was for every QB who EVER PLAYED THE GAME. WRs do get YAC, that's a fact of life. The WR doesn't sit there in the end zone and wait for the QB to throw a deep bomb. He gets YAC.

Yes, Brady was a better overall QB in '07 and yes, Brady deserved that MVP. But let's give Favre a little bit of credit, can't we? He was the MVP runner-up. They just don't give those out. Favre may not have been the best deep ball passer who ever lived, but he was without a doubt the best deep ball passes of 2007.

 

[bozz_2006]

I'm not saying he couldn't, Zombieslayer. in my humble opinion, he is the greatest QB in NFL history, and maybe the greatest player ever. But, no matter how good you are, you have strengths and weaknesses. I think the long ball was one of the weaker points in Favre's game.

 

[Danreb]

Aaron Rodgers has jets. He probably doesn't have the same zip Favre did. Okay, he doesn't, but I'm talking about the 38-year old Favre.

What we lose in Brett's arm strength, we make up for with A-Rod's speed.

If Ryan Grant signs his tender, our offense is going to be feared.

 

[warhawk]

I think D's might attack the Packers offense a little different this year.. I think it will be two parts they will focus on..

1) Jumping the short routes in the passing game.. make Rodgers throw over the coverage so to speak.. make him make the throws to beat you.. not the short quick rythmners that should be easy pickins.. With Favre and his gun for a right arm.. defenses weren't going to welcome the chance of him picking apart the mid range part of the field..

2) The defenses have a book on the Packers running game and weakness.. they are going to attack that interior of the Packers line until it is proven by the Packers that they have it solved.. que up the Giants tape.. they focused alot of the stunts inside and made those boys look silly..

Alah the Bears with Brigg's who made our guards look like school children in both games. When they went to a defense we SHOULD have been able to run on Mr. Brigg's was too fast and too strong for our guys inside. They DID take our short passing game away and then let Brigg's do the rest.

Thus, all the UGLINESS I am referring to. And the Bears games were BUTT ugly. God I wish they would have traded that guy.

 

[Zombieslayer]

I'm not saying he couldn't, Zombieslayer. in my humble opinion, he is the greatest QB in NFL history, and maybe the greatest player ever. But, no matter how good you are, you have strengths and weaknesses. I think the long ball was one of the weaker points in Favre's game.

Well, he was kind of weird with the long ball. He was absolutely awesome at it in '07, but absolutely horrible in '05 with it.

In '03, a lot of his success with the long ball was really him throwing it up and Javon Walker coming down with it because Walker was that good (he's not any more, but he was a top tier WR in '03).

He was actually good with the long ball in '96, the year we won the SB.

So if anything, he was inconsistent.

 

[favre2driver]

More HB passes to Brandon Jackson on 2nd or 3rd down. Also, more short passes to the outside. Rodgers did that very effectively against the cowgirls. also, rodgers will run more when in trouble

 

[Zombieslayer]

More HB passes to Brandon Jackson on 2nd or 3rd down. Also, more short passes to the outside. Rodgers did that very effectively against the cowgirls. also, rodgers will run more when in trouble

Wynn seemed to be pretty good at screens.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wynn more involved in the passing game.

 

[Obi1]

Brady has a noodle arm.

Are you serious? Maybe I need to have my eyes adjusted or something. I've always thought that Brady has a very good arm.

theres a reason Brady wasnt drafted till the 6th round and never really beat anyone out of a job in Michigan.

his arm strength. when i say arm strength i dont mean the deep ball. any schmoe can gun a ball down field to Randy Moss. but he lacked zip and the ability to throw across field or thread needles. Name one play last year or any year before that that Tom Brady amazed you with his arm.

Brady was and to some degree still is a very mediocre QB skill wise. Just extremely lucky to be in the situation he has.

of course he has two things that enable him to look as good as he does.
Ice water in his veins (arguably the most important thing a good QB needs), and a coach who makes anyone near him look better than he really is. Put Brady in Houston or Atlanta right now... and he wouldnt win 4 games. They just know what they are doing in New England and it makes Brady look good.

There was some guy out west that had a noodle arm too. Can't remember his name...hmmmm. Played well. Won alot of games....Super bowls too. Oh, it was ummm, Joe something.... or was it Bob......Yeah, Bob Montana! no, wait....oh! Joe Montana! Yeah that was the guy...

Never could throw it long...but seemed to put it were it needed to be. He and Brady remind me of each other....

<<<Trippster walking away from discussion mumbling to himself>>>> Yeah, Montana.......that's it...not bob, the other guy...

Yeah... The LONGEST TD pass I ever saw was from MONTANA to North Dakota.

 

[Pack_Attack_Is_Back]

I just glacned thru this thread but..
Some of you guys talk about Arod like hes Rex Grossman or something, ARod CAN play Quarterback! It would be insulting to see MM "dumb down" the playbook for him, hes been in the system for 3 years now, he wont need any spoon feeding!

Like someone mentoined that MM will up th run percentage of plays, i doubt it, if anything MM will sense that D co-ordinators expect the Packers to run, run, run with an inexperienced QB so he'll open up the passing game, to counter-act the heavy run defense. MM wins games by doing the unconventional and i dont expect him to stop doing this.

I wasn't trying to question AR abilities, but you cannot deny their lack of a running game last year, which would lead me to believe they may be able to mix it up a little more. There is no reason to get so defensive.

 

[Zombieslayer]

The thing is, our running game will be fine.

Grant is not happy with playing for the minimum, but that doesn't mean he will. One of the Packer players will sit him down and tell him how the ball rolls in Green Bay. Work hard. Produce. And you will be rewarded.

Brandon Jackson I thought was a bust in the beginning of the season. He has since proved me wrong. Brandon Jackson is an excellent #2 RB.

Our OL when it comes to running dominates weak DLs. It does have problems however with elite DLs. Still, towards the end of the season, it was coming together.

I think MM will get his dream of having some games with 50 run plays. We will be able to run the ball down opponents' throats in '08, and it has nothing to do with which QB is back there.

You all will be quite content with AR's mental abilities. He's a very smart man. He picks things up quickly, and learned a tremendous amount in '07. Brett Favre was the master of audibles in '07. He picked up the blitz almost every time. AR was behind that, soaking in all that knowledge.

I'm more worried about our D than our O in '08. If our D dominates, we'll go deep in the Playoffs. Our O is fine.