NO TRADE FOR TAYLOR, YET

Pack93z

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Second time in the past two days this rumor is making the rounds.. and it was mentioned in another thread... could it be?

I would go... WOW!

There are highly unsubstantiated Internet rumors of a trade that would send Dolphins defensive end Jason Taylor to the Packers for a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick.

Though it's possible that the Fins and the Packers are talking, there's a key component in all of this that hasn't occurred. Specifically, no one has broached the subject with Taylor.

And we're convinced that no team would swing a trade for Taylor absent a clear and unequivocal commitment from him that he'd welcome the deal and not retire.

Taylor currently is in preparations for the next season of Dancing with the Stars. Unless he pulls a Kenny Mayne, Taylor won't be available for a big chunk of the offseason workouts. So who would want to give up a 2008 draft pick or two for a guy that can be had later for selections in 2009?

We're not saying a trade won't happen. In fact, we wouldn't be surprised to learn that Taylor wants out of Miami. But we're convinced that nothing is going to happen in the short term, and we believed that nothing will happen at all until Taylor's time on television ends.

Meanwhile, we've got a feeling that anyone who wants Taylor is going to have to pay him. It's the Tommy Kelly effect; if a so-so guy coming off a torn ACL gets $18 million guaranteed, what is a high-end player worth?
 

porky88

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After seeing Michael Strahan sit out all of the off season and come in after training camp to play for the Giants, I'd say let Jason dance with the stars. If we got him I'd be more than thrilled. The guy had 11 sacks last year and that's with him getting constantly double teamed. In GB he'd play opposite Aaron Kampman and then it's a pick your poison sort of thing. If a team decides to double team both of them, then it opens things up for the inside and there could be one less receiving option for the other team.
 

longtimefan

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some one posted this on our williams thread

Some rumors swirling in Green Bay have the Packers talking to the Dolphins about trading for DE Jason Taylor. Do I think it's possible? Perhaps. Ron Wolf would be a perfect mediator between his protege Thompson and his good friend Bill Parcells. Parcells is trying to get the Dolphins younger and just recently released LB Zack Thomas.

Taylor has 117 career sacks, including 77.5 the past six seasons. The move would be similar to the move Wolf made when he acquired Reggie White in free agency in 1993. Imagine Taylor and Aaron Kampman as bookends on the Packers defensive line. Jenkins could be a 'tweener and slide between DT and DE in the rotation. If a move to acquire Taylor is made, then Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila would need to take a pay cut or possibly be released.

What would the price be to acquire Taylor? Taylor will be 34 years old on Sept. 1. I think it would probably take a third or a fourth round draft choice to make a deal. Or perhaps a couple of draft choices, like maybe a fourth and a seventh. If Wolf helps out in the negotiations, then the price may not be too severe. Besides, Thompson is pretty shrewd. Just take a look at the recent Williams deal with the Browns.
 
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I'm gonna throw out a different take on Taylor:

Assume (a rather large assumption to make at this point) Taylor comes to Green Bay, does he take over for Poppinga on the strong-side? Taylor was a LB in the 3-4 under Saban, so perhaps the Packers leave Jenkins as starting RE and insert Taylor as the LB?

But a second/fourth for Taylor is over paying IMO. He's 34, I can't see Ted giving up a chunk of the future for a guy that doesn't have much longer left to play.
 

bigfog

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all about da packers said:
But a second/fourth for Taylor is over paying IMO. He's 34, I can't see Ted giving up a chunk of the future for a guy that doesn't have much longer left to play.

Agreed. Taylor's good and if brought aboard, that's very exciting. But I would hope that TT would hang on to those 2 second rounders.
 

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all about da packers said:
I'm gonna throw out a different take on Taylor:

Assume (a rather large assumption to make at this point) Taylor comes to Green Bay, does he take over for Poppinga on the strong-side? Taylor was a LB in the 3-4 under Saban, so perhaps the Packers leave Jenkins as starting RE and insert Taylor as the LB?

But a second/fourth for Taylor is over paying IMO. He's 34, I can't see Ted giving up a chunk of the future for a guy that doesn't have much longer left to play.

OLB in a 3-4 and 4-3 are completely different things. In a 3-4 the OLB is where the pass rusher plays, and the DE is typically a two-gap DT. Every now and again he may be able to play with a hand off the ground to give opponents a different look, but he's not an everydown SAM (he'd probably get burned horribly in coverage).
 

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Both KGB and Kampy wore down at the end of the season... and were non-factors in GB's match to get into the SB. GB trading the Williams pick and a 4th to get an impact pass-rusher, which they can afford by re-negotiting KGB's contract, sounds like a dream team to me.

I will make a bold prediciton, based on nothing other than my gut (ie, no rumor or inside info here!): if TT can swing this trade, Favre comes back for a final run (Favre coming back would also be a factor in getting Taylor to sign.) If the deal falls through (which it would if MIA can't sign Calvin Pace) then Favre retires. TT keeps his two 2nd-round picks to pick up a couple of good, young players to grow along with Rodgers.

Favre and Taylor = SB or bust in 2008
No Taylor = no Favre = the start of a new era.

This could get interesting.
 

porky88

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all about da packers said:
I'm gonna throw out a different take on Taylor:

Assume (a rather large assumption to make at this point) Taylor comes to Green Bay, does he take over for Poppinga on the strong-side? Taylor was a LB in the 3-4 under Saban, so perhaps the Packers leave Jenkins as starting RE and insert Taylor as the LB?

But a second/fourth for Taylor is over paying IMO. He's 34, I can't see Ted giving up a chunk of the future for a guy that doesn't have much longer left to play.

He'd be kind of bad at LB in my opinion. I don't think a 2nd and 4th is that much at all. DE's seem to last a long time in the NFL. Look at Reggie White. Look at Michael Strahan right now. If Taylor gives the Packers 4 good seasons then the Packers will be in great shape for the next 4 seasons at one of the most important positions in in the NFL.

I keep reading blogs that say he's declining. 24.5 sacks in two seasons is declining?
 

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I'd give Miami a second and a fourth, depending upon if we get a 4th round compensatory pick for losing Ahman Green to replace the fourth. But I guess we all have to ask ourselves if Taylor is that much of an upgrade over KGB, assuming KGB is released.

If we did this deal and kept KGB, we could put one nasty rushing front four on the field. Taylor and KGB at end, and Kampmann and Jenkins at tackle.
 

DakotaT

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Packers_Finland said:
Dakota, I doubt Kampman would move into the middle. Plus KGB is a situational pass-rusher, so he doens't play most plays.

Sorry, I should have said just on third and long. Pickett, Jolly, Harrell, and Muir or Cole rotate on run downs. That defensive line rotation would have many possiblities.
 

Veretax

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I do not want Jason Taylor on the Packers. I'd rather draft or sign a Free Agent Linebacker as trade for the guy. He is not worth 2 picks. Period.
 

bozz_2006

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I do not want Jason Taylor on the Packers. I'd rather draft or sign a Free Agent Linebacker as trade for the guy. He is not worth 2 picks. Period.

that's a very different opinion than most on here. why do you feel that way?
 

Veretax

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bozz_2006 said:
I do not want Jason Taylor on the Packers. I'd rather draft or sign a Free Agent Linebacker as trade for the guy. He is not worth 2 picks. Period.

that's a very different opinion than most on here. why do you feel that way?

Well the other team I route for is the Redskins, and they in the last few years have made some horrendous trades for players, who might have been "name players", but they tended to give up too many picks and too large a salary for the position. If Taylor comes here i"m assuming he's going to be a defensive end right?

I know his stats say he had 55 Solo Tackels, 4 Forced Fumbles, and an INT. Who were these sacks against?

Washington: 1 if I remember correctly, this was after washington lost their perenial starter at Tackle John Jansen to a fluke leg break. Filling in was an undrafted Free Agent named Stephon Heyer. I don't recall which side of the ball he played on though QB's left or right, but this sack might have been a good one.

Cincinatti: 1 (17 for the season #2 best)
Cleveland: 1 (19 for the season #3 best)
New England: 1 (21 for the season #5 best)
Houston: 2 (22 for the season #6 best)

Buffalo: 1/1 (26 for the season #11 best)
Washington: 1 (29 for the season #13 best)

Baltimore: 1 (39 for the season #21 best)
Pittsburgh:1 (47 for the season #25 best)
NYJ: 0/2 (53 for the season #29 best)
Philadelphia: 1 (49 for the season #28 best)


Of those teams he got sacks on how many had solid offensive line corps? He got a total of 5 sacks on the #2, #3, #5, and #6 pass protecting teams last year. Those were clearly four of the best lines in football last year. Buffalo and Washington were solidly in the upper half of the league, but I can't help but feel that Washington's numbers are deceptive, they didn't pass the ball quite as much as some teams because of the way plays were being called for Jason Campbell, and they were missing two of their three starting Offensive Lineman. Look at other squads that had problems with their Oline, (Detroit: 54 sacks, San Francisco and KC: 55 Sacks, NY Jets: 53 Sacks, Phily: 49 Sacks, St Louis: 48 sacks) several of them had major injuries or were very poor in pass protecting. Of the botom ten teams Miami Faced:

NY Jets twice (only 2 sacks in one of the games)
Philadelphia Once only 1 sack.
Pittsburgh once Only 1 Sack
Baltimore (since we don't include miami's anemic performance): 1 Sack

That's a total of 5 sacks in 5 games against 4 of the worst lines in football. I'm not sold on the guy being any better than the DEs we have now, he's 33, going into his 12th year. He won't be staying for more than 2 maybe 3 or 4 years I imagine, DEs just don't last as long typically. Because of that I think it's stupid to give up two picks for a guy that may be gone after next season (2009). That's a lot of talent to give up to bring in a guy, that has always played in a warm weather stadium. I'd rather keep our picks and draft someone to groom in the position. 11 Sacks is hardly anything to sneeze at in my mind. Sure he may have been 9th in Total Sacks among DE last year, but we already have one DE who was higher than that, Aaron Kampan who had 12. KGB had 9.5 sacks last year and was rated 13th out of Defensive Ends for Sacks. I just don't see the reason to bring in a Free Agent Mercenary at Defensive End. It just doesn't make any sense to me. And he was only 18th statistically in tackles at his position last year. I'm just not sold on the guy, not for two picks. No way, I'd rather draft some young guys and develop what we have.
 

Veretax

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Dudes and dudettes, this guy is too old to give up 2 dratft choices for; and pay big bucks to.
This would be a bad move IMHO.

At last someone who agrees with me.
 

eap33

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I've always liked Jason Taylor. The guy has some pretty good looking stats for being on such a garbage team for so long. I'm not sure he's worth 2 picks, but he'd definitely be worth making some kind of offer for, I think.
 

Veretax

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I'd give up a 2nd and a 6th for him but we don't have a 6th this year (Ryan Trade right?) I don't want to give up a 5th, but I dunno, I'm not sold on him being worth 2 picks.
 

longtimefan

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I'd give up a 2nd and a 6th for him but we don't have a 6th this year (Ryan Trade right?) I don't want to give up a 5th, but I dunno, I'm not sold on him being worth 2 picks.

I agree, I have a feeling Ted wouldnt be willing to dump 2 picks on him either..However maybe the #60 with a later round would work, since Ted has the #57 now
 
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I agree, I have a feeling Ted wouldnt be willing to dump 2 picks on him either..However maybe the #60 with a later round would work, since Ted has the #57 now

But this is supposed to be one of the more "deeper" drafts, so that might make Ted hesitate in trading a day 1 pick.

Perhaps the #60 pick this year, with a conditional next year based on how much Taylor produces?
 

porky88

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bozz_2006 said:
Veretax said:
I do not want Jason Taylor on the Packers. I'd rather draft or sign a Free Agent Linebacker as trade for the guy. He is not worth 2 picks. Period.

that's a very different opinion than most on here. why do you feel that way?

Well the other team I route for is the Redskins, and they in the last few years have made some horrendous trades for players, who might have been "name players", but they tended to give up too many picks and too large a salary for the position. If Taylor comes here i"m assuming he's going to be a defensive end right?

I know his stats say he had 55 Solo Tackels, 4 Forced Fumbles, and an INT. Who were these sacks against?

Washington: 1 if I remember correctly, this was after washington lost their perenial starter at Tackle John Jansen to a fluke leg break. Filling in was an undrafted Free Agent named Stephon Heyer. I don't recall which side of the ball he played on though QB's left or right, but this sack might have been a good one.

Cincinatti: 1 (17 for the season #2 best)
Cleveland: 1 (19 for the season #3 best)
New England: 1 (21 for the season #5 best)
Houston: 2 (22 for the season #6 best)

Buffalo: 1/1 (26 for the season #11 best)
Washington: 1 (29 for the season #13 best)

Baltimore: 1 (39 for the season #21 best)
Pittsburgh:1 (47 for the season #25 best)
NYJ: 0/2 (53 for the season #29 best)
Philadelphia: 1 (49 for the season #28 best)


Of those teams he got sacks on how many had solid offensive line corps? He got a total of 5 sacks on the #2, #3, #5, and #6 pass protecting teams last year. Those were clearly four of the best lines in football last year. Buffalo and Washington were solidly in the upper half of the league, but I can't help but feel that Washington's numbers are deceptive, they didn't pass the ball quite as much as some teams because of the way plays were being called for Jason Campbell, and they were missing two of their three starting Offensive Lineman. Look at other squads that had problems with their Oline, (Detroit: 54 sacks, San Francisco and KC: 55 Sacks, NY Jets: 53 Sacks, Phily: 49 Sacks, St Louis: 48 sacks) several of them had major injuries or were very poor in pass protecting. Of the botom ten teams Miami Faced:

NY Jets twice (only 2 sacks in one of the games)
Philadelphia Once only 1 sack.
Pittsburgh once Only 1 Sack
Baltimore (since we don't include miami's anemic performance): 1 Sack

That's a total of 5 sacks in 5 games against 4 of the worst lines in football. I'm not sold on the guy being any better than the DEs we have now, he's 33, going into his 12th year. He won't be staying for more than 2 maybe 3 or 4 years I imagine, DEs just don't last as long typically. Because of that I think it's stupid to give up two picks for a guy that may be gone after next season (2009). That's a lot of talent to give up to bring in a guy, that has always played in a warm weather stadium. I'd rather keep our picks and draft someone to groom in the position. 11 Sacks is hardly anything to sneeze at in my mind. Sure he may have been 9th in Total Sacks among DE last year, but we already have one DE who was higher than that, Aaron Kampan who had 12. KGB had 9.5 sacks last year and was rated 13th out of Defensive Ends for Sacks. I just don't see the reason to bring in a Free Agent Mercenary at Defensive End. It just doesn't make any sense to me. And he was only 18th statistically in tackles at his position last year. I'm just not sold on the guy, not for two picks. No way, I'd rather draft some young guys and develop what we have.

KGB's 9.5 sacks were clean up sacks in the 4th quarter. If Taylor can come in and consistently get pressure on the QB from the DE spot it's going to be a huge upgrade from KGB. They don't even fall in the same boat.

I don't know where you got your stats from. The best I could do was NFL.com and go through all the QB's and look at their sacks and add them up if they're on the same team. So I decided to nitpick from Aaron Kampman.

Kampman had 8 of his 12.5 sacks against the following teams. Giants, Rams, Chiefs, Broncos, and Lions. The best ranking for sacks was the Giants who I think are at like 24. The Chiefs and Lions ranks last and 2nd to last respecitvely. The Rams fall in at 29th I believe. Not very good huh?

When you try and measure production that way you tend to get crazy rankings on the some of the better players in the league. A guy from ESPN does it all the time. He overrates Donald Driver and underrates Roddy White. Enough said.

Now I don't disagree with the statement that 2 picks for Taylor might be a lot to give especially if you believe Taylor has one or two seasons left in him. That's your opinion and you could be right. I think he can play another 4 years and be productive. It's not unheard of older DE's playing very well in the climax of their career. How many people had Patrick Kerney done for his career? It'd be very shocking to me if TT did pull something like this off. I think he could trade a 2nd for him. To package two picks together though is probably unlikely from the Packers standpoint.
 

Veretax

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Yeah I agree, The numbers on taylor aren't overwhelmingly bad or good, 11 sacks in 16 games was still pretty good, I'm not sold that he's worth two picks though, that's all. I agree, you can nit pick stats all day with just about any player. So I see your point.

hrms saw this on another site. Apparently they are still rumors about this trade on profootballtalk:

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

TAYLOR, FINS TO PART WAYS?

We reported earlier in the day that rumors of a trade that would send Fins defensive end Jason Taylor to the Packers for a second- and fourth-round pick in the 2008 draft are premature.

But, as Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reports, a divorce between Taylor and the Dolphins is coming.

Per Cole, the team and the player have agreed to an amicable split. But, as we've pointed out, no one has consulted with Taylor about whether he'd accept a trade to Green Bay (or anywhere). So don't look for anything to happen soon.

Certainly, Taylor will be a key component of any conversations regarding a trade. But he's currently occupied with preparations for Dancing with the Stars, and to the extent that he's interested in parlaying the exposure into a post-football career in Hollywood playing roles other than himself or a prison guard in The Longest Yard II, Taylor needs to stick around as long as possible in the competition.

So he'll need to focus. And that could mean that he won't have the time or the inclination to deal with exploring opportunities in other NFL cities or worrying about the terms of a new contract.

Thus, while Cole thinks a deal will be done before the draft, the major sticking point could be Taylor sticking around Dancing with the Stars deep into April.
 

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