MiniCamp News 2025

[OldSchool101]

It might end up as a solid move, but the depth on the edge is very weak. I don't see Sorrell, Cox, or Oliver suddenly turning into bulls. Fair backup material at best.

The issue I see with our Pass Rush is it’s hard to gauge a Rookie. That first year is often shaky. IMO both Sorrell and Oliver are viewed about 1 Round earlier than they are selected. Meaning Sorrell expectation is really more in that later day 2 feel. Oliver more in the 4th Rounder impact feel. Some of that is due to the strength of this Draft class leaning Defense across Day1-2 pushing players down about a draft round by Day 3.

The good news I’d offer is if Oliver ends up playing LB, that’s one of just a few positions you can get earlier results imo. Another is RB etc. While Oliver is small for a DE, he’s exceptional level at weaving through traffic to gain access to the LOS to meet the play. That trait will translate as most often High TFL traits from college just translate.

This next part is purely opinion. On paper and going conservative these are what expectations I would foresee in 2024 over last season. Keeping in mind I understand many factors can change, including but not limited to schedule strength and how other opponents regress or improve. Im going off if everything remained similar etc.

2024 Defense
Yards allowed # 5
Points allowed #6

2025 Defense (projected)
Yards allowed #8
Points allowed #7

I think our Pass D might be a slight bit more vulnerable, even with natural growth, the Safety group looks legit, but absolutely we should have moderate concerns about CB depth past our starters.

2024 Offense
Yards For: #5
Points for #8

2025 Offense (Projected)
Yards For: #4
Points For #6

 

[tynimiller]

Oliver edge wise is very much a sub package type you don't have in run defense packages....now the saving grace as you shared is Oliver might very well see some diverse usage sliding him back to off ball situationally. I think if he shows good signs of absorbing the playcalls and speed of this level Hafley and Co will let him train and learn both spots...but I could see a world where he is forced to learn one primarily as a rookie and I think that becomes edge personally.

He is a lighter edge around 240lbs...but we've began seeing edges in pass rush packages do well like Nolan Smith or others.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I believe the Matt Golden and Savion Williams picks in round one and three had more to do with the future than the 2025 season. As rookies, both will see somewhat limited time, but will act as a solid backup if needed. Why do I see it as building for the future? Because both Watson and Doubs become free agents after this season. It's planning to fill both those roles if they can't keep them on the team. It's a backstop plan to ensure that the offense doesn't make a left turn and destroy all that's being built with the defense to make them a contender for the Super Bowl.

The offensive line appears to be well stocked, and at this point TE is a strong point on the team. So, it puts the onus on defense to step it up a notch or two to be one of the elite teams during the upcoming season, and beyond. What's surprising is that the Packers even have what appears to be a solid backup QB, giving them possibly one of the most well stocked teams in all phases of offense in the entire NFL.

On defense, Jeff Hafely appears to be what the doctor ordered to solve a lot of the problems they've had. He seems to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each individual player at his disposal, and his defense although specific in nature, offers flexibility to ensure that the right player is covering the receivers in routes between the hash marks, where we've been burned consistently for years.

His players are still learning the system, but quite frankly, they are doing better and should be taking a step up this year. My biggest concern? Pass rush. If you can't put intense pressure on the QB on passing downs, there's no way on earth defensive backs can cover multiple receivers out on routes long enough to stop passes from being completed. My lowest level of confidence against any part of the defense is their ability to apply that pressure. But I still believe it's there and just has to be unleashed.

Gary could be solid as an edge rusher this year, but let's hope Engabare has the skills because they're questioning Van Ness's ability to play the position, by working him out inside. It might end up as a solid move, but the depth on the edge is very weak. I don't see Sorrell, Cox, or Oliver suddenly turning into bulls. Fair backup material at best.

One more year. I believe we're going to see the Packers contend this year, but next year is going to be the year that the Packers need to win the whole thing, or I believe Policy will be looking for potential replacements at GM and HC. That's not saying we don't have good ones, but being a bridesmaid for so long isn't considered good enough in the NFL, if you have a franchise with a pedigree.

I think Golden will play more than a back up role this year. Esp with Watson out early, he's gonna get targets.

 

[tynimiller]

I think Golden will play more than a back up role this year. Esp with Watson out early, he's gonna get targets.

I'd bet his targets if a line were placed would be only around 50 or so.

Even in 2022 when Romeo and Watson were rookies and Lazard was arguably the only WR above them both on depth they got 67 and 66 targets respectively - with Cobb getting 50 and Lazard over 100.

Reed in 2023 set the record for a Packer rookie with 94 targets but big factor there was Wicks wasn't used much at first but got 58 targets finally and Watson was out.

Last season no rookie WRs so no comps there but the way I look at it is the following:

When Love has played full(ish) season we are in that 540 or so total targets:

Conservative numbers...assuming Love is healthy...
- Doubs if healthy minimum gets 85
- Reed same as above 85
- Tucker is progressing and I assume with break last year (70) so let's say 80
- Wicks let's say his targets go down some 10% (was 76) to 68
- Musgrave had 46 when healthy in 2023 in just 11 games....let's say he gets 50 minimum
- Our top 3 RBs combined for 70....which low for healthy Love years...let's say 85

That is a total of 453 targets...

So roughly around 100 snaps (should say targets) or less to split between guys like Golden, Williams, Heath and perhaps a 3rd TE getting some snaps/time like Sims or Fitzpatrick plus likely a fourth RB nabbing a few.

I personally expect Golden to see time absolutely and for sure if one of Doubs/Wicks/Reed struggle or get injured I think Golden could really hit 70 or so...but this offense IMO wants to increase Tucker's role, pound the rock, get back to manufactured touches to Reed like in 2023 and utilize WRs to round out the attack not necessarily be the attack...

Golden for me is one of the hardest to predict for me out of all our WRs going into the season....unlike Doubs and Watson who we knew were going to get significant playing time given depleted room....Golden and Williams both have not played a single NFL snap and it is not something easily transitioned to by even some of the greats in the past...and they've got three bonafide starters with experience, plus Hardman, plus a guy in Heath who knows the system, blocks his *** off and has delivered consistency in reserve. With a healthy Luke Musgrave and possibly a progressing Ben Sims I could see us playing a substantial amount of 12 personnel which will also limit the snaps Golden and Savion get chances for to begin with too.

 

[Voyageur]

I'd bet his targets if a line were placed would be only around 50 or so.

Even in 2022 when Romeo and Watson were rookies and Lazard was arguably the only WR above them both on depth they got 67 and 66 targets respectively - with Cobb getting 50 and Lazard over 100.

Reed in 2023 set the record for a Packer rookie with 94 targets but big factor there was Wicks wasn't used much at first but got 58 targets finally and Watson was out.

Last season no rookie WRs so no comps there but the way I look at it is the following:

When Love has played full(ish) season we are in that 540 or so total targets:

Conservative numbers...assuming Love is healthy...
- Doubs if healthy minimum gets 85
- Reed same as above 85
- Tucker is progressing and I assume with break last year (70) so let's say 80
- Wicks let's say his targets go down some 10% (was 76) to 68
- Musgrave had 46 when healthy in 2023 in just 11 games....let's say he gets 50 minimum
- Our top 3 RBs combined for 70....which low for healthy Love years...let's say 85

That is a total of 453 targets...

So roughly around 100 snaps or less to split between guys like Golden, Williams, Heath and perhaps a 3rd TE getting some snaps/time like Sims or Fitzpatrick plus likely a fourth RB nabbing a few.

I personally expect Golden to see time absolutely and for sure if one of Doubs/Wicks/Reed struggle or get injured I think Golden could really hit 70 or so...but this offense IMO wants to increase Tucker's role, pound the rock, get back to manufactured touches to Reed like in 2023 and utilize WRs to round out the attack not necessarily be the attack...

Golden for me is one of the hardest to predict for me out of all our WRs going into the season....unlike Doubs and Watson who we knew were going to get significant playing time given depleted room....Golden and Williams both have not played a single NFL snap and it is not something easily transitioned to by even some of the greats in the past...and they've got three bonafide starters with experience, plus Hardman, plus a guy in Heath who knows the system, blocks his *** off and has delivered consistency in reserve. With a healthy Luke Musgrave and possibly a progressing Ben Sims I could see us playing a substantial amount of 12 personnel which will also limit the snaps Golden and Savion get chances for to begin with too.

Excellent analysis.

Another battle I'm seeing. Left tackle. To be honest, I think both Belton and Morgan are going to be given shots early on, and we could see Walker shipped out for a 2026 pick, or maybe an interior defensive lineman who would give us better depth at the position. I just don't see us going into the season with Walker out there to be honest. If they don't trade him, they're going to lose him after this year to someone who as we have discussed, will overpay to get him in free agency.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'd bet his targets if a line were placed would be only around 50 or so.

Even in 2022 when Romeo and Watson were rookies and Lazard was arguably the only WR above them both on depth they got 67 and 66 targets respectively - with Cobb getting 50 and Lazard over 100.

Reed in 2023 set the record for a Packer rookie with 94 targets but big factor there was Wicks wasn't used much at first but got 58 targets finally and Watson was out.

Last season no rookie WRs so no comps there but the way I look at it is the following:

When Love has played full(ish) season we are in that 540 or so total targets:

Conservative numbers...assuming Love is healthy...
- Doubs if healthy minimum gets 85
- Reed same as above 85
- Tucker is progressing and I assume with break last year (70) so let's say 80
- Wicks let's say his targets go down some 10% (was 76) to 68
- Musgrave had 46 when healthy in 2023 in just 11 games....let's say he gets 50 minimum
- Our top 3 RBs combined for 70....which low for healthy Love years...let's say 85

That is a total of 453 targets...

So roughly around 100 snaps (should say targets) or less to split between guys like Golden, Williams, Heath and perhaps a 3rd TE getting some snaps/time like Sims or Fitzpatrick plus likely a fourth RB nabbing a few.

I personally expect Golden to see time absolutely and for sure if one of Doubs/Wicks/Reed struggle or get injured I think Golden could really hit 70 or so...but this offense IMO wants to increase Tucker's role, pound the rock, get back to manufactured touches to Reed like in 2023 and utilize WRs to round out the attack not necessarily be the attack...

Golden for me is one of the hardest to predict for me out of all our WRs going into the season....unlike Doubs and Watson who we knew were going to get significant playing time given depleted room....Golden and Williams both have not played a single NFL snap and it is not something easily transitioned to by even some of the greats in the past...and they've got three bonafide starters with experience, plus Hardman, plus a guy in Heath who knows the system, blocks his *** off and has delivered consistency in reserve. With a healthy Luke Musgrave and possibly a progressing Ben Sims I could see us playing a substantial amount of 12 personnel which will also limit the snaps Golden and Savion get chances for to begin with too.

Yeah. and we’ve already seen evidence with reports coming out of Matt using more 12 Personnel. Musgrave has looked the part early on he caught a few nice gainers already. Obviously it’s premature but the fact we’re lining up more in 12 Personnel tells me two things. We’re going to press Musgrave more and get him involved and we’re going to pound the Rock. We didn’t spend a #45 overall to let him pace the sidelines if you will (not suggesting anyone said that). Year 3 they will see what they have with Musgrave he’s going to be much better prepared imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

Looking at ESPN (initiated with checking our SOS) they had several metrics I thought intriguing. The first one was FPI which measures Teams strength based on a true scale using a net points structure.
1. Baltimore
2. Detroit
3. Philly
4. GB
5. Buffalo
GB and Detroit finished trending down -1. That implies we were likely both in that 1-3 Slots late in the season. Eagles were trending up +2 which aligns with their finish also.

Of Playoff Qualifying teams. Only the LA Rams posted a better Strength of Schedule. IMO this aligns with why LA looked the part in Postseason. They were used to playing high octane teams, much like we saw
2024 final SOS Rankings.
1. LA Rams
2. SF49ers
3. GB Packers
4. Seattle Hawks
5. Arizona Cards
6. Cleveland Browns
7. Detroit Lions
8. Chicago Bears
9. Minnesota Vikings
10. Dallas Cowboys

2024 Net Efficiency Rankings Team
1. Detroit
2. Philly
3. Buffalo
4. Baltimore
5. Minnesota
6. LA Chargers
7. GB Packers
8. KC chiefs
9. Washington
10. Denver Broncos

As noted. The Lions, Packers and Vikings did more with tougher levels of opponents. Detroit was probably the most impressive. They just clobbered most anyone in their path. The Packers and Vikings did a commendable job considering they had an arsenal of Quality Opponents. Mostly in our Division and supplemented by The Eagles 2X

 

[Thirteen Below]

Willie was an intelligent man. Our conversation ranged into a lot of areas. I see you know exactly what I saw in him when we met.

Some people, you just spot it right away.

 

[Voyageur]

I'm anxious to what Sean Mannion can do to improve Jordan Love's footwork. It could have a huge effect on his game. Love has been able to get away with off balance throws and a lot of lame ducks because he has receivers who can get to the ball and at least force the passes into being incomplete. When his footwork is right, his passes are a thing of beauty.

If Love can master what Mannion teaches his game could improve substantially.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm anxious to what Sean Mannion can do to improve Jordan Love's footwork. It could have a huge effect on his game. Love has been able to get away with off balance throws and a lot of lame ducks because he has receivers who can get to the ball and at least force the passes into being incomplete. When his footwork is right, his passes are a thing of beauty.

If Love can master what Mannion teaches his game could improve substantially.

I agree. While Tom Clements was probably a good fit through the QB transition, at some point I think it’s good to break off and get a fresh perspective. Tom brought a world of experience as our former OC and Assistant Head Coach under MM. Love had 3 full seasons to learn from the QB Guru which is like having a degree in QB school.
Another thing I like is Mannion was an assistant position Coach so we already know he fits in our system. He brings experience primarily from The LA Rams, Seattle Seahawks and MN Vikings, so he’s got several flavors to choose from.

 

[Voyageur]

I agree. While Tom Clements was probably a good fit through the QB transition, at some point I think it’s good to break off and get a fresh perspective. Tom brought a world of experience as our former OC and Assistant Head Coach under MM. Love had 3 full seasons to learn from the QB Guru which is like having a degree in QB school.
Another thing I like is Mannion was an assistant position Coach so we already know he fits in our system. He brings experience primarily from The LA Rams, Seattle Seahawks and MN Vikings, so he’s got several flavors to choose from.

One of the things that I took from Mannion's past employment with Minnesota is how Kirk Cousins commented on how much Mannion did to help him develop his footwork. I've commented on Love's footwork needing to be addressed for a couple of years now, and I believe that Cousins' words had an effect on LeFleur, Stenavich, and Gutekunst.

Although it might sound like nothing more than a minor tweak to a lot of people, to offensive minded people just being able to increase passing efficiency by 5 to 10% is huge improvement. It can play out in more completions, especially in longer routes, and quicken the QB release. It also can cut back on INTs and allow for more finesse on throws. In other words, differences that can parlay themselves into better outcomes.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'd bet his targets if a line were placed would be only around 50 or so.

Even in 2022 when Romeo and Watson were rookies and Lazard was arguably the only WR above them both on depth they got 67 and 66 targets respectively - with Cobb getting 50 and Lazard over 100.

Reed in 2023 set the record for a Packer rookie with 94 targets but big factor there was Wicks wasn't used much at first but got 58 targets finally and Watson was out.

Last season no rookie WRs so no comps there but the way I look at it is the following:

When Love has played full(ish) season we are in that 540 or so total targets:

Conservative numbers...assuming Love is healthy...
- Doubs if healthy minimum gets 85
- Reed same as above 85
- Tucker is progressing and I assume with break last year (70) so let's say 80
- Wicks let's say his targets go down some 10% (was 76) to 68
- Musgrave had 46 when healthy in 2023 in just 11 games....let's say he gets 50 minimum
- Our top 3 RBs combined for 70....which low for healthy Love years...let's say 85

That is a total of 453 targets...

So roughly around 100 snaps (should say targets) or less to split between guys like Golden, Williams, Heath and perhaps a 3rd TE getting some snaps/time like Sims or Fitzpatrick plus likely a fourth RB nabbing a few.

I personally expect Golden to see time absolutely and for sure if one of Doubs/Wicks/Reed struggle or get injured I think Golden could really hit 70 or so...but this offense IMO wants to increase Tucker's role, pound the rock, get back to manufactured touches to Reed like in 2023 and utilize WRs to round out the attack not necessarily be the attack...

Golden for me is one of the hardest to predict for me out of all our WRs going into the season....unlike Doubs and Watson who we knew were going to get significant playing time given depleted room....Golden and Williams both have not played a single NFL snap and it is not something easily transitioned to by even some of the greats in the past...and they've got three bonafide starters with experience, plus Hardman, plus a guy in Heath who knows the system, blocks his *** off and has delivered consistency in reserve. With a healthy Luke Musgrave and possibly a progressing Ben Sims I could see us playing a substantial amount of 12 personnel which will also limit the snaps Golden and Savion get chances for to begin with too.

For Golden, 50 regular season targets comes out to 3 a game. By your numbers, that puts him at the bottom of the WR/TE group in targets. I think it will be closer to 75. Just counting the 17 regular season games.

I agree that MLF will pound the ball and make even better use of Kraft.

 

[OldSchool101]

One of the things that I took from Mannion's past employment with Minnesota is how Kirk Cousins commented on how much Mannion did to help him develop his footwork. I've commented on Love's footwork needing to be addressed for a couple of years now, and I believe that Cousins' words had an effect on LeFleur, Stenavich, and Gutekunst.

Although it might sound like nothing more than a minor tweak to a lot of people, to offensive minded people just being able to increase passing efficiency by 5 to 10% is huge improvement. It can play out in more completions, especially in longer routes, and quicken the QB release. It also can cut back on INTs and allow for more finesse on throws. In other words, differences that can parlay themselves into better outcomes.

I like it. While I’m quite sure he does address various aspects of the motion, it sure doesn’t hurt to have someone who might specialize in a particular area.

JT Sullivan in what I thought was very constructive criticism brought up the footwork also. He inferred that better footwork leads to smoother accuracy and timing. There are going to be situations that arise to leave your feet.

He was displaying what he referred to as each bounce a QB makes as he’s settling into the pocket. He calls each bounce a “Hitch”. On many of the plays he was reviewing he said had Jordan thrown one hitch sooner with better anticipation he’d be bowling more Strikes. Footwork helps balance, accuracy, timing, rhythm and throwing power among many things. Plus the benefit of getting you out of a tight spot until someone opens up.

 

[Voyageur]

I like it. While I’m quite sure he does address various aspects of the motion, it sure doesn’t hurt to have someone who might specialize in a particular area.

JT Sullivan in what I thought was very constructive criticism brought up the footwork also. He inferred that better footwork leads to smoother accuracy and timing. There are going to be situations that arise to leave your feet.

He was displaying what he referred to as each bounce a QB makes as he’s settling into the pocket. He calls each bounce a “Hitch”. On many of the plays he was reviewing he said had Jordan thrown one hitch sooner with better anticipation he’d be bowling more Strikes. Footwork helps balance, accuracy, timing, rhythm and throwing power among many things. Plus the benefit of getting you out of a tight spot until someone opens up.

This is the point. When I coached, I always worked on getting my QBs to play the game with their feet and minds at the same time. The feet need to anticipate the throw because there isn't time to reset and get the ball off. That fraction of a second is often the difference on a pass. The elite QBs don't miss that window of opportunity.

 

[El Guapo]

The feet need to anticipate the throw because there isn't time to reset and get the ball off. That fraction of a second is often the difference on a pass. The elite QBs don't miss that window of opportunity.

Agree 100%. The body needs to be slightly ahead of the mind, so that when the brain makes the go/no-go decision, it is either a pump fake (very effective) or letting her rip.

It's a game of inches and fractions of a second, but also big gains and over 3hrs of play.

 

[Heyjoe4]

This is the point. When I coached, I always worked on getting my QBs to play the game with their feet and minds at the same time. The feet need to anticipate the throw because there isn't time to reset and get the ball off. That fraction of a second is often the difference on a pass. The elite QBs don't miss that window of opportunity.

A QB's footwork is mentioned in almost every game by the broadcasters, usually the color guy. Because these decisions are made in fractions of seconds, I imagine it requires a lot of practice and repetition in training. The QB doesn't have time to think "Are my feet in the right position for what I'm about to do?. It comes down to instinct, made possible by drill after drill after drill, and straightforward talent.

And then there are super freaks like Mahomes, who frequently improvises and throws the ball falling forward, with both feet off the ground.

It's an interesting aspect of QB play. If it has contributed to the times Love has played poorly, this is the season to put it all together.

 

[DoURant]

Reported that the Packers are in contract negotiations with Zach Tom. He is reportedly asking for $25+M per season average. Penei Sewell is the top paid OT in the league at $28M and next in line is Lane Johnson at $25M.

 

[JPPT1974]

Like in the NFL Red Zone witching hour "Wins become losses and losses become wins!"

 

[tynimiller]

Reported that the Packers are in contract negotiations with Zach Tom. He is reportedly asking for $25+M per season average. Penei Sewell is the top paid OT in the league at $28M and next in line is Lane Johnson at $25M.

I predicted $24M minimum with not exceeding $27M a year...structure of it will tell the true story. Be nice to lock him up for two to three years

 

[DoURant]

predicted $24M minimum with not exceeding $27M a year...structure of it will tell the true story. Be nice to lock him up for two to three years

Tom is a Top 10 Tackle in the league, this is where the salaries are headed, I'm totally fine with a contract in that range.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Tom is a Top 10 Tackle in the league, this is where the salaries are headed, I'm totally fine with a contract in that range.

Well this is where the market for top Ts is going - $25 to $20 mil AAV. Top Edge guys now at $40 mil AAV. But American football is a hot commodity here and many other places around the globe. That means a lot of revenue/earnings and significant increases to the cap, and player comp.

 

[El Guapo]

**Sigh** You're all right. It continues to be tough for me to wrap my brain around all of these salaries but Gutekunst and Russ Ball have been smart with the cap, starting with the ousting of Aaron Rodgers. I trust that they are keeping all of the eggs in the basket.

 

[tynimiller]

Now I wouldn't be shocked one bit if GB has a number they won't go over with Tom.....IF the two sides don't get together enough, I'd 100% support them playing hard ball and saying fine, take this deal (say $25.5M/Yr for four years) OR after a week we are going to start negotiations with Rasheed, and likely trade you.

FTR I 100% prefer Tom over Rasheed and to me I'm not giving Rasheed over $20M a year...but we do have to resign one of them IMO....and if Tom doesn't want to do it, it's worth securing one and moving on to other stuff.

 

[Pkrjones]

Now I wouldn't be shocked one bit if GB has a number they won't go over with Tom.....IF the two sides don't get together enough, I'd 100% support them playing hard ball and saying fine, take this deal (say $25.5M/Yr for four years) OR after a week we are going to start negotiations with Rasheed, and likely trade you.

FTR I 100% prefer Tom over Rasheed and to me I'm not giving Rasheed over $20M a year...but we do have to resign one of them IMO....and if Tom doesn't want to do it, it's worth securing one and moving on to other stuff.

Ouch! Walker re-signed at $20mil/yr? That would be tied for 10th highest paid LT's. I would hope they could get him for a max of $15mil/yr (tied for 15th highest paid... he's an average LT, imho.

Don't disagree on Tom max at $25.5mil (making him 3rd highedt paid RT)... and letting him walk if not acceptable. Would even start giving Belton RT snaps and/or consider moving Tom by trade deadline.

 

[tynimiller]

Ouch! Walker re-signed at $20mil/yr? That would be tied for 10th highest paid LT's. I would hope they could get him for a max of $15mil/yr (tied for 15th highest paid... he's an average LT, imho.

Don't disagree on Tom max at $25.5mil (making him 3rd highedt paid RT)... and letting him walk if not acceptable. Would even start giving Belton RT snaps and/or consider moving Tom by trade deadline.

LOL, it was a hypothetical and also top shelf figure. I know what folks say, many thought I was a fool for predicting what Lazard and MVS would get in FA as well. Walker is going to take more than $15M unless he falls apart this year...proven starting level LTs in the league make it.