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Michael Vick

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by slowsinistermo, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    True, but either way; it is "evidence"and Vick's lawyers did not want that stuff getting out to the jury or media for a reason and I think it's pretty easy to determine why.
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I have to ask you...............now PLEASE answer honestly. Do you eat any meat? Any beef, pork, chicken, fish, anything? If so, how can you judge a hunter or fisherman? Because you buy your meat at a store, where it's packaged in nice cellophane covered styrofoam? Because you let someone else do the "dirty work" for you? All those nice packaged meats were once living breathing things. Someone had to kill them in order for you to eat them. When i hunt, i won't take a shot unless i'm sure it will be a quick humane kill. I don't get joy over torturing something. But i DO enjoy the steaks, roasts, and sausage that i went out and harvested myself.
    Thats a HUGE difference from purposely torturing animals for hours on end, just to get your jollys. I don't care if it's dogs, cats, horses, whatever. If you think torturing something for fun is ok, theres something seriously wrong with your line of thinking.
    Did you know the major portion of serial killers tortured and killed small animals when they were young? If you think it's fun to do that, in my opinion, thats sick.
     
  3. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I seriously think if Vick would have been a MAN, and fessed up to what he had done, he would have got a LOT lighter sentence. But he kept telling lies, and thinking he could get away with it.......you know......like most high profile atheletes think.
    He HAD his chance, BEFORE his "friends" rolled on him. But he chose to keep saying "Nope! I didn't have anything to do with it" and now he's paying dearly for it.
     
  4. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    And if I were a lawyer, I'd avoid letting my client getting a max sentence from potential PETA supporters in the jury who make decisions based on sensationalism.

    Evidence or not, juries are generally mindless people who do whatever the more eloquent lawyer tells them to.

    Just look at how many "guilty" murderers have been released after DNA evidence proved their innocence, even though witnesses testified against them.

    Obviously, Vick pled guilty. But he had no choice, given that the prosecutions case was built almost entirely off of the testimonies of his "friends" and some gruesome photos.

    The sad thing is that a jury would have spent 15 minutes to call him guilty with that "evidence" and any pictures of cute doggies post-fight. If they had the power to choose it, they would've gone for the death penalty.



    EDIT: I got nothin but love for ya, Winni- just turns out we end up on different sides more often than not! lol Don't take any of what I'm saying as an attack or anything like that, I just disagreed with alot of things that happened with this case.
     
  5. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I'm sorry RP.........you can't compare what "food" other countries eat to what Vick participated in. Yes, there ARE countries that raise dogs, cats, whatever for food. I doubt though that they take hours watching their "dinner" tear each other to bits, then drown then if they don't live up to expectations.
    A woman microwaves ONE cat, and gets maybe 6 months in England. Ok.....then lets multiply how many dogs Vick had a part in torturing, and give him 6 months for each. How many YEARS do you think that would add up to? During world war 2, it was NOT illegal to kill Jewish people in Germany. They were considered "non human". So because it was the "norm" there, should we now not look upon it with disgust? (I'm NOT coparing what Vick did to what Hitler did, just trying to show you different places go by different values, and that doesn't mean WE should go along or agree with it).
    Vick has NO ONE to blame but himself. He did what he did, and now will pay for it.
    I don't feel too sorry for a guy that had everything to lose, and went and broke the law anyway.
     
  6. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    Of course I eat meat, that was my point. I'm also not outraged about Vick. I eat meat and don't give a damn about the Cow suffering. In the same breath I don't much care about a dog getting tore up by another dog. Happens every day. It's a dog eat dog world. Damn near every animal has to fight for survival. That's life. There are boatloads of dogs running around and they sure the hell aren't endangered, the pound puts dogs under on a daily basis because there are just to many of them.

    Where my problem lies with your argument is the fact that you somehow justify going hunting and "harvesting your own meat" as you said but then get mad because Vick killed a few dogs. You obviously take pride in hunting and killing animals just to get your sausage fix. What you love dogs but not deer? Are you saying if I walk out back, yell for Fluffy, and kill him humanely with a bullet to the head, thats OK? You hunt for enjoyment not need. IMO, you have no right to be pissed at Vick for killing a dog when you walk around with such bravado about killing a deer because you like it's meat. Maybe Vick got the same satisfaction out of the dog that you got out of the deer. Both were senseless and selfish.


    Don't get me wrong about hunting, I have no problem with it. I choose not to do it but only because I don't see the point. It's much easier to go to the store and buy the meat then spend hours in the woods acting like Rambo in the 1800's. It has nothing to do with doing the "dirty work". Store bought meat is processed by people who get a paycheck. Should I feel guilty for buying a widget because some other person made it? If it's not store bought than the person hunting is obviously doing it for enjoyment, hell they are paying for the chance to do it.


    If you hunt then you have are no better than Vick, sorry. Justify it however you would like. Dogs are not people, Dogs are no different than a fly, rabbit, giraffe, aardvark, fish or anything else. I eat meat and would eat a dog if it tasted good. All the same
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When you put it that way KGB I FULLY understand your point of view now..,.

    But heres the problem and it is HUGE...

    Hunting deer is legal where as dof fighting is not...

    You might morally be okay with both, but the law isnt..

    Morally you might be okay with someone smoking some wacky tabacy, but the law isnt
     
  8. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    You are right, the law is the law and Vick broke it. I just feel Vick is hated and people are looking for a reason to crucify him. I absolutely DO NOT like Vick but I'm not really that outraged about the whole dog thing. I have other problems with the guy.

    Vick broke the law, as you said, and now he must pay the consequences. Whether I think the law is right or not is irrelevant. Vick got shafted IMO. If he can come back, still have a large fan base, compete at a high level, and contribute to the benefit of any NFL team, then I applaud the guy for being able to bounce back. If not, I guess he can think about his mistake for the rest of his life.
     
  9. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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  10. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Green Bay Packers
     
  11. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    A good zinger from a Bears paper... enjoy.

    THE BALDEST TRUTH Linky...

    Is a 23-month sentence for Vick too long or too short?

    Well, I’m no expert on these kinds of things, so all I’ll say is it could have been worse.

    I mean, he could have been sentenced to play quarterback behind the Bears’ offensive line.
     
  12. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    There are TWO major differences. Hunting is legal, dog fighting isn't.
    And, i don't go out, shoot a deer in the leg, then shoot it in another leg, stab it a few times, kick it, watch it suffer for a few hours,and then drown it.
    If you don't see the difference between torturing something, and betting money on it's suffering, i guess we will have to agree to disagree.
    By the way...........I don't hate Vick. Never did. He was talented. He CHOSE the path he did. He CHOSE to break the law.
     
  13. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    You are killing it for selfish reasons either way.

    Is it OK If I shoot Fluffy in the head and eat him?
     
  14. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    At least that's quick and painless.




    Terrier = Delicious
     
  15. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    Yeah, thats why animals drop right after you shoot them
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    All but one of them in my 33 years of hunting did just that.
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    If my family was starving, i would do what i had to to feed them.
    I still don't see how you can compare killing for food, to TORTURING MULTIPLE ANIMALS over MANY years, for MONEY and "fun".
    Quite frankly, your argument is more then just weak, it's lame.
    My hunting helps keep the deer population in Wisconsin from over population. We had a deer estimate at 1.6 to 1.8 million deer in this state before this past deer season. We killed under 400,000. That still leaves 1.2 to 1.4 million. If we went just ONE year with no hunting, there would be well over 2 million plus deer. You know what that would GUARENTEE?
    MASS STARVATION of deer over the next winter, as there is not enough food for that many animals. Thats not a worse case scenario, that WOULD be what happens. I have been in the north Wisconsin woods where hunters could'nt get back there to help keep the deer population down. I walked and saw dead deer all over the place. It took them several weeks to possibly MONTHS to slowly starve to death. Is that a better thing then having hunters kill some and take them home for food? Or would you think it to be better to just let "Bambi" starve to death?
    Yeah........thats thinking it through.
    Oh.....i have your next response already "There are too many dogs, whats the difference of letting them tear each other apart?" Lame....just lame.

    Some people would rather keep their eyes closed to the truth...........and wouldn't recognize the truth if it slapped them up side the head.
     
  18. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    Cheesey if you are starving I will gladly send you a basket full of food.

    I am glad you humanely kill animals by putting a bullet in them, when you could easily go to the store and buy other food, that is rather kind.

    You call my argument lame, but yours is simply the most contradicting thing ever. That's what I find entertaining. What about a Fish, do you shoot them in the head? You kill animals to get your rocks off tracking down another living thing and stopping it dead in it's tracks. Were they hurting you? Were they a threat to your family? Could you not afford the meat they provide? You do it simply because you are like the way they taste and enjoy the meat. So you do it for yourself.

    Michael Vick liked to gamble, enjoyed a good fight, similar to a boxing match, and had a good time doing it, both ways the animals ended up dead for no other reason then the guy responsible was worried about getting his own rocks off, whether it be by eating sausage or gambling.

    I think we could solve the problem by giving the dogs shotguns so they could humanely kill the other with a quick shot to the sweet spot. Then of course, we will eat them.

    So I again ask you, Is it OK to take Fluffy out back and drop him with one to the head and then eat him?
     
  19. PackinSteel

    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    I can't see this guy backing down Cheesey - Sounds like a Shock Jock on the radio.

    I'm not a hunter but I do see the necessity especially in your neck of the woods (pun intended since it's so good!).

    Perhaps the lesson here is you while you would go out deer hunting KGB94 would rather chase down a deer with his jacked up pickup and then back over it slowly just to be sure.
     
  20. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    After I bet my buddy 5.00 that I could catch it.

    I have my shotgun ready, Fluffy is napping, and I'm a bit hungary. Is this ok?
     
  21. Popcynical

    Popcynical Cheesehead

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    I don't get how you can compare dogfighting and hunting. Sure they both result in the death of the animal, but the circumstances are completely different. Mostly because deers feel little to no pain in their deaths, and with the dogs it's a completely different story.

    Also I disagree completely with Packnic's statements. I've owned several Pit Bulls and they can be as friendly as any other dog out there... it's how the owner raises the dog that determines the dog's attitude.
     
  22. PackinSteel

    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    Nope, not here in the USA. End of story.
     
  23. KGB94SACKEM

    KGB94SACKEM Cheesehead

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    Nothing screams humane more than going into a deers domain, putting a bullet in it, cutting it open and enjoying it's sausage.

    Jeffery Dahmer = America's most humane citizen
     
  24. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    Not here in Canada either but on a after thought; 100 or so years from now our great grand children (who will be most-likely Vegan or Vegetarian by this time as things are slowly progressing this way) will probably question "our moral standards" when it comes to hunting and eating animal products the way many of us are questioning Vick's morals with dog fighting now as if it wasn't for the over population point that cheesey brought up; there really is no need to be eating meat at all in this day and age. That's just a nasty fact that nobody wants to admit to themselves !!!
     
  25. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Oh....so right you are!!!!
    Other then maybe say, letting the deer population grow out of control, so we can sit and WATCH the little buggars STARVE to death! Yeah......that makes PERFECT sense!!! Oh, what FUN that would be!!!! :roll:
     

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