Mario Vs Hawk debate with some new information
- Thread starter Bruce
- Start date
I'm sold.
I dont like 40 times, i think they are overrated, and guys(wrs\rbs mostly) get a raw deal if their 40 time isnt blinding(hows that fast carroll working out for us?)....
but a 6'7 300 pound man running a 4.66 is pretty good
we know he can pursue now. if the play is on the other side, he can still get in on it.
I think i am making the switch from Hawk to Mario. good stuff bruce.
(ill still be happy with hawk too)
I dont like 40 times, i think they are overrated, and guys(wrs\rbs mostly) get a raw deal if their 40 time isnt blinding(hows that fast carroll working out for us?)....
but a 6'7 300 pound man running a 4.66 is pretty good
we know he can pursue now. if the play is on the other side, he can still get in on it.
I think i am making the switch from Hawk to Mario. good stuff bruce.
(ill still be happy with hawk too)
Zero2Cool
I own a website
I'll be happy if we draft a guy who makes the pro bowl for ten straight years.
Bring'em both on board!
Bring'em both on board!
but that could never happenall about da packers
Cheesehead
tkpckfan said:
Which one is right? :-?
Zero2Cool
I own a website
This article probably old but says a different 40 time of 4.93
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pr ... pyid=11478
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pr ... pyid=11478
Schmitty
Cheesehead
Super Mario showed that he deserves to be drafted in the top five with a great combine workout. I will defenatly be pulling for the Packers to draft Williams over Hawk.
From the combine:
At 6-7 and 295 pounds, Williams recorded an impressive time in the 40-yard dash (4.66), posted the second-best vertical jump (40½) among defensive linemen, and showed great body control and agility during individual position drills. Williams' strong showing solidified his standing as one the elite prospects in the 2006 class and also could lead to him being the first defensive player taken in April's draft -- possibly No. 5 overall to the Packers.
While Williams was the headliner of the unit, his teammate, DE Manny Lawson, also impressed with his exceptional showing. Lawson finished with the best 40-yard dash time (4.43) of all the defensive linemen and also ranked near the top of the group in the vertical jump (39½), broad jump (10-4), three-cone drill (6.90), short shuttle {4.18} and long shuttle (11.08}. An undersized DE/OLB tweener, Lawson projects as a situational pass-rusher early in his NFL career, until he can add bulk as a 4-3 DE or adjust to playing OLB in a 3-4 scheme. In the meantime, he also has value on special teams, especially blocking kicks.
Alabama DE Mark Anderson put up some shockingly good numbers during his workout session on Monday. Anderson was a productive starter during his final two collegiate seasons, using good technique and a high motor to overcome his seemingly below-average speed and athletic ability. But Anderson excelled inside the RCA Dome, as he finished near the top among defensive linemen in the 40-yard dash (4.61), broad jump (10-7), vertical jump (42), three-cone drill (6.95), short shuttle (4.22) and long shuttle (11.75).
One of the great stories of this draft process has been that of Cal-Poly's Chris Gocong. A versatile defensive lineman who played end and tackle in college, Gocong led the Division I-AA ranks with 19 sacks as a senior in 2005. Gocong obviously will be forced to make a huge transition in the NFL. He does not have the size (6-2, 264 pounds) to play inside, but he did show the speed in the 40-yard dash (4.7) and overall athleticism in the vertical jump (38½), broad jump (10-2), three-cone drill (7.03), short shuttle (4.08} and long shuttle (11.35) to be a DE/OLB-type. If nothing else, Gocong should prove to be an effective situational edge rusher in either a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme.
The big knock on Purdue DE Ray Edwards is his inconsistent motor. Edwards has impressive size and the frame to grow. He ran well in the 40-yard (4.7 range) and displayed outstanding leaping ability in the vertical jump (39) and broad jump (9-6). More importantly, Edwards showed very good athleticism and agility for such a tall player during his position drills.
Oklahoma DT Dusty Dvoracek impressed on the field with a high motor and great quickness in drills. Also, despite off-the-field baggage -- three alcohol-related incidents while at Oklahoma, including one that resulted in a yearlong suspension in 2004 -- Dvoracek reportedly has handled himself well by showing a lot of maturity during some tough interview sessions.
Michigan NT Gabe Watson also has impressed with his quickness and agility for such a big defensive lineman. However, the interview sessions have not been so kind to Watson, who has had many questions to answer regarding his inconsistent motor and production throughout his collegiate career. One defensive line coach from an AFC team reportedly called out Watson for taking plays off during the season and only playing hard when "money was on the line" at the Senior Bowl.
Supreme among defensive-line bench pressers (225 pounds) were Ohio State DE Mike Kudla (record-tying 45 reps), Florida State DT Brodrick Bunkley (44), Northwestern DT Barry Cofield (35), Ohio State DT Marcus Green (33) and Georgia DT Kedric Golston (31).
Syracuse defensive linemen Ryan LaCasse (4.54) and James Wyche (4.63) recorded impressive times in the 40-yard dash.
At 6-7 and 295 pounds, Williams recorded an impressive time in the 40-yard dash (4.66), posted the second-best vertical jump (40½) among defensive linemen, and showed great body control and agility during individual position drills. Williams' strong showing solidified his standing as one the elite prospects in the 2006 class and also could lead to him being the first defensive player taken in April's draft -- possibly No. 5 overall to the Packers.
While Williams was the headliner of the unit, his teammate, DE Manny Lawson, also impressed with his exceptional showing. Lawson finished with the best 40-yard dash time (4.43) of all the defensive linemen and also ranked near the top of the group in the vertical jump (39½), broad jump (10-4), three-cone drill (6.90), short shuttle {4.18} and long shuttle (11.08}. An undersized DE/OLB tweener, Lawson projects as a situational pass-rusher early in his NFL career, until he can add bulk as a 4-3 DE or adjust to playing OLB in a 3-4 scheme. In the meantime, he also has value on special teams, especially blocking kicks.
Alabama DE Mark Anderson put up some shockingly good numbers during his workout session on Monday. Anderson was a productive starter during his final two collegiate seasons, using good technique and a high motor to overcome his seemingly below-average speed and athletic ability. But Anderson excelled inside the RCA Dome, as he finished near the top among defensive linemen in the 40-yard dash (4.61), broad jump (10-7), vertical jump (42), three-cone drill (6.95), short shuttle (4.22) and long shuttle (11.75).
One of the great stories of this draft process has been that of Cal-Poly's Chris Gocong. A versatile defensive lineman who played end and tackle in college, Gocong led the Division I-AA ranks with 19 sacks as a senior in 2005. Gocong obviously will be forced to make a huge transition in the NFL. He does not have the size (6-2, 264 pounds) to play inside, but he did show the speed in the 40-yard dash (4.7) and overall athleticism in the vertical jump (38½), broad jump (10-2), three-cone drill (7.03), short shuttle (4.08} and long shuttle (11.35) to be a DE/OLB-type. If nothing else, Gocong should prove to be an effective situational edge rusher in either a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme.
The big knock on Purdue DE Ray Edwards is his inconsistent motor. Edwards has impressive size and the frame to grow. He ran well in the 40-yard (4.7 range) and displayed outstanding leaping ability in the vertical jump (39) and broad jump (9-6). More importantly, Edwards showed very good athleticism and agility for such a tall player during his position drills.
Oklahoma DT Dusty Dvoracek impressed on the field with a high motor and great quickness in drills. Also, despite off-the-field baggage -- three alcohol-related incidents while at Oklahoma, including one that resulted in a yearlong suspension in 2004 -- Dvoracek reportedly has handled himself well by showing a lot of maturity during some tough interview sessions.
Michigan NT Gabe Watson also has impressed with his quickness and agility for such a big defensive lineman. However, the interview sessions have not been so kind to Watson, who has had many questions to answer regarding his inconsistent motor and production throughout his collegiate career. One defensive line coach from an AFC team reportedly called out Watson for taking plays off during the season and only playing hard when "money was on the line" at the Senior Bowl.
Supreme among defensive-line bench pressers (225 pounds) were Ohio State DE Mike Kudla (record-tying 45 reps), Florida State DT Brodrick Bunkley (44), Northwestern DT Barry Cofield (35), Ohio State DT Marcus Green (33) and Georgia DT Kedric Golston (31).
Syracuse defensive linemen Ryan LaCasse (4.54) and James Wyche (4.63) recorded impressive times in the 40-yard dash.
Bobby Roberts
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I'm not sold on Williams because he turned in a good 40 time. 4.66 versus 4.72 is a very small difference and it's difficult to say how that will translate to Lambeau field in December.
The main factor to me on the 2 great prospects is that we can find a very good LB in later rounds, but that's not necessarily the case for DEs. Another issue is that both the offense and defense are defined by the lines. Our DL improved tremendously last year, and our defense benefitted. Williams would go a long way to both adding depth and quality to a position of need.
The main factor to me on the 2 great prospects is that we can find a very good LB in later rounds, but that's not necessarily the case for DEs. Another issue is that both the offense and defense are defined by the lines. Our DL improved tremendously last year, and our defense benefitted. Williams would go a long way to both adding depth and quality to a position of need.
GakkofNorway
Cheesehead
I see us drafting Williams in the 1st round, and probably a LB in the 2nd round, getting Brandon Williams in the 3rd round if Walker and Murphy is gone, and then drafting a RB in the 4th round.
CaliforniaCheez
Cheesehead
I know people like Williams but for him to be on the board at #5 there have to be 4 better players in the draft. At best Bush, Ferguson, Leinhart go in front of him. Do you think one of the top 4 will be Hawk?
You can't believe an NFL team would take Vince Young in the first round.
With this free agent market of Brees, Griese, Culpepper, Ramsey, Collins, Kitna, Nall and others available a project like Young will drop in the draft like a rock and further than Rodgers did last year.
He can blame the Wonderlic or his not throwing at the combine or call it disrespect but it really is market conditions especially for a guy who entered the draft a year early.
Ferguson, Williams, and Bush fit any of top 4 picks. Leinhart could go to either Saints or Jets. If Hawk is taken early the Packers could see Leinhart on the board and trade the pick for multiple picks.
I just don't see how Williams is on the board when the Packers pick. His combine performance was too good and he'll be gone before the Packers pick.
You can't believe an NFL team would take Vince Young in the first round.
With this free agent market of Brees, Griese, Culpepper, Ramsey, Collins, Kitna, Nall and others available a project like Young will drop in the draft like a rock and further than Rodgers did last year.
He can blame the Wonderlic or his not throwing at the combine or call it disrespect but it really is market conditions especially for a guy who entered the draft a year early.
Ferguson, Williams, and Bush fit any of top 4 picks. Leinhart could go to either Saints or Jets. If Hawk is taken early the Packers could see Leinhart on the board and trade the pick for multiple picks.
I just don't see how Williams is on the board when the Packers pick. His combine performance was too good and he'll be gone before the Packers pick.
NDPackerFan
Cheesehead
You're right on Mario possibly being gone before the Pack pick but no way will Young drop to #24 in this year's draft...no way.
yooperfan
Cheesehead
Another twist on Mario now comes into play.
The Saints are trying to sign Drew Brees. This could mean they won't draft a QB as expected so Linart could slide down a notch.
This could mean Mario moves up a notch.
Or maybe not.
The Saints are trying to sign Drew Brees. This could mean they won't draft a QB as expected so Linart could slide down a notch.
This could mean Mario moves up a notch.
Or maybe not.
IPBprez
Cheesehead
This was hashed out in the "More Hawk" thread...
If you notice, the alert went out about the Houston Texans making a run at Mario!
For some reason, Sportsline doesn't allow for reading back on the timeline of their RUMORS
I'd like to think that Mario will still be there when we go at No.5 - but we still don't know if TT will trade down... or not!
I've even seen Mario Williams listed at Number Four pick for the Draft.
If you notice, the alert went out about the Houston Texans making a run at Mario!
For some reason, Sportsline doesn't allow for reading back on the timeline of their RUMORS
I'd like to think that Mario will still be there when we go at No.5 - but we still don't know if TT will trade down... or not!
I've even seen Mario Williams listed at Number Four pick for the Draft.
all about da packers
Cheesehead
WAIT...... Hawk had his work out yesterday on campus, AND YOU Won't believe this.... REPORTS HAVE HAWK RUNNING HIS 40 BETWEEN 4.38 and 4.43 :shock: Talk about quick.
I don't know about you, but that is damn impressive!
I don't know about you, but that is damn impressive!
retiredgrampa
Cheesehead
If Mario is gone, I can see Hawk to the Pack at #5. They then go after the DE from Penn State who seems to be another Kampman, only better. But as usual, it ALL depends on what TT is offered in a trade-up scenerio. With his all-consuming love for more picks, he would trade that pick no matter who was there for us, if the bait was sufficient. That's what will make the 1st day of the draft so exciting.
porky88
Cheesehead
all about da packers said:
It's pretty decent but he's still no where near the athlete that Williams is. Plus combine times are valued more than pro day times. Everybody runs faster at the pro day. I wonder why? :roll:
I saw someone say Brandon Williams in round 3. If that happens I may bomb Ted Thompsons office. Brandon Williams is a 2nd day pick. We could find a guy like Demetrius Williams from Oregon. Martin Nance of Miami OH could still be on the board. Heck Jon Orr of Wisconsin is climbing boards after a 4.25 40 at his pro day. Williams ran a 4.44. Brandon Williams will probably go in round 5 in my opinion.
I hope GB goes
Mario Williams in round 1
Thomas Howard or Ernie Sims in round 2 Maybe Nick Mangold as well
Brain Caulhon would be nice in round 3 (if he's there) or a guy like Daryn Colledge who would fit right in at guard in the zone blocking scheme that GB will be running next year.
all about da packers
Cheesehead
Truth be told, as everyday passes, I grow a little more on Williams. Honestly he could very well be the best thing since sliced bread! 
But seriously, I'm starting to lean towards Williams myself. But one thing is for sure, if Mario isn't on the board, we still get a stud in Hawk! No loose situation BABY!
But seriously, I'm starting to lean towards Williams myself. But one thing is for sure, if Mario isn't on the board, we still get a stud in Hawk! No loose situation BABY!
pantherd
Cheesehead
Either one would be a definite upgrade and instant starter in GB. However, LB is the deepest, most talented position in this year's draft. You could conceivably draft a starter in the third round at LB. As many as 6-8 may be first rounders and 12 on day one. You'll have your chances there.
If Williams is available, take him. Many comapre him to our beloved Peppers. However, Pep is 6'6", 290lbs and runs a 4.55 40. Oh yeah, and with his BBall background, he has a 40+" vertical. All of that translates well for us on Sundays in Carolina, let me tell ya.
If Williams is available, take him. Many comapre him to our beloved Peppers. However, Pep is 6'6", 290lbs and runs a 4.55 40. Oh yeah, and with his BBall background, he has a 40+" vertical. All of that translates well for us on Sundays in Carolina, let me tell ya.
