Linebackers

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Actually Pettines unit has been showing some coach em up ability. Jaire turned into one of the best corners in the league, Savage is progressing nicely, Gary is turning into a beast, keke is turning into a stud and the depth guys in the secondary like green redmond Sullivan and Scott havent looked too bad either.

Like someone else said, I think Jaire, Gary, and Savage were always going to be good. With the right coach all three might be elite. But on raw talent alone, I never doubted them.

Keke is improving....or at least showing he deserves more snaps. I think what he's showing us he had last year. But for some reason Adams, Lancaster, and the rest of the gang kept getting more snaps.

I was kinda hot on Sullivan, but I want to see more Hollman now....I'm not sure who's better at this point. They need to find out quickly though. Redmond can kick rocks, the defense is covering up his drop-off in talent.

Scott gets an incomplete grade from me so far....but I'm not saying he's bad either.


Like Schlereth said in the Lions game. Pettine is pulling a Capers, and several vets have confirmed this to a much lesser degree. With a better DC, I wonder what Barnes and Martin could really look like.

 

[Poppa San]

Keke is improving....or at least showing he deserves more snaps. I think what he's showing us he had last year. But for some reason Adams, Lancaster, and the rest of the gang kept getting more snaps.

Vs Detroit, Keke had twice as many snaps as Lancaster and one more than Lowry. Adams is on IR. What game did you watch? The week b4, Lowry had a few more but Lancaster was still quite a bit fewer.

 

[easyk83]

Like someone else said, I think Jaire, Gary, and Savage were always going to be good. With the right coach all three might be elite. But on raw talent alone, I never doubted them.

Keke is improving....or at least showing he deserves more snaps. I think what he's showing us he had last year. But for some reason Adams, Lancaster, and the rest of the gang kept getting more snaps.

I was kinda hot on Sullivan, but I want to see more Hollman now....I'm not sure who's better at this point. They need to find out quickly though. Redmond can kick rocks, the defense is covering up his drop-off in talent.

Scott gets an incomplete grade from me so far....but I'm not saying he's bad either.


Like Schlereth said in the Lions game. Pettine is pulling a Capers, and several vets have confirmed this to a much lesser degree. With a better DC, I wonder what Barnes and Martin could really look like.

You've mentioned why I made a note of player development in Pettine's unit, because in Capers defenses following our Super Bowl win there wasn't any and some of our draftees from 11 through 17 had more success elsewhere than in GB. Perhaps it was the scouting but during that same time period with the lion share going to the defensive side of the ball our offensive draft picks were turning out nicely with players like Bakh Adams Lacy Aaron Jones, Corey Linsley etc. So if one side of the ball is doing more with less and the other side of the ball is basically a black hole for draft capital does that not suggest that the coaching staff on defense was performing poorly in the development of the talent they were receiving? In comparison yes our defensive players selected in the Gute era have been markedly better. But is that better scouting, despite many of the same minds being in the draft room, or is that better development?

 

[Krabs]

PS: What happened to Oren Burks?

Currently third in pro bowl voting for special teams, I read, can't get on the field for defense.

Yep, he stinks and is a bust. Being voted to the pro bowl on the Packers ST can't be that hard. It's like getting a participation trophy.

 

[gopkrs]

Yep, he stinks and is a bust. Being voted to the pro bowl on the Packers ST can't be that hard. It's like getting a participation trophy.

How can you know that? I'll say that in pass coverage he has looked completely lost at times. But he looks like he has a lot of speed. And I just have not seen much of him. He has not had hardly any playing time.

 

[PikeBadger]

How can you know that? I'll say that in pass coverage he has looked completely lost at times. But he looks like he has a lot of speed. And I just have not seen much of him. He has not had hardly any playing time.

Sometimes having a lot of speed means you get out of position quicker than the average player. He is definitely not an instinctive defender.

 

[easyk83]

Quick addendum talent is one thing but if lets say a scheme is too complicated has too many checks, wrinkles plays etc the players are never going to learn to play fast enough to excel. Hence Capers unit being a perpetual black hole of talent.

 

[Krabs]

How can you know that? I'll say that in pass coverage he has looked completely lost at times. But he looks like he has a lot of speed. And I just have not seen much of him. He has not had hardly any playing time.

He's almost 3 full seasons into his career. Yes, he has had injury problems. However, he has had the opportunity to gain knowledge of the defense by sitting and learning. Now he is healthy and cannot beat out the likes of Barnes (an UDFA), Martin (Rookie), and Kirksey. Heck, I bet they would put Summers in before Burks. The writing is on the wall with this guy. I'm no talent evaluator and am not at the practices, but if he was any good he would be playing more than just special teams. I'm surprised anyone is even questioning it.

 

[GleefulGary]

Yeah, since we traded up for the QB, and Patrick Queen was picked a few after, we would look good with him in the middle. IMO

He might be good in the future, but he hasn’t been good this year.

 

[gopkrs]

Sometimes having a lot of speed means you get out of position quicker than the average player. He is definitely not an instinctive defender.

Sometimes having a lot of speed means you get out of position quicker than the average player. He is definitely not an instinctive defender.

Yes, there is that. Which to me is an awareness and patience (decision) thing. Well, I have stuck up for the guy. I hope Pettine allows us to blow someone up and then put him in. I would like to check him out more. But I believe Martin and Barnes could be good. And they need reps also. In a game.

 

[gopkrs]

I'm no talent evaluator and am not at the practices, but if he was any good he would be playing more than just special teams.

To me that is a leap of faith. Which I don't have, especially considering they are playing Kirksey too much.

 

[GleefulGary]

To me that is a leap of faith. Which I don't have, especially considering they are playing Kirksey too much.

In the moments when Burks has played ILB, he hasn’t looked very good.

 

[Krabs]

To me that is a leap of faith. Which I don't have, especially considering they are playing Kirksey too much.

What's that tell you that Kirksey is playing way ahead of Burks? People are questioning Kirksey at this point. That, and every other ILB on the team. If he was even average he would be out there. We are thin at that spot and he doesn't sniff the field. I'm pretty confident the Packers move on from him and he is never heard from again. That means bust!

In the moments when Burks has played ILB, he hasn’t looked very good.

Agreed, he is sitting behind rookies even.

 

[gopkrs]

In the moments when Burks has played ILB, he hasn’t looked very good.

I agreed but the key word is moments. That means not very much.

 

[gopkrs]

What's that tell you that Kirksey is playing way ahead of Burks?

I already said once that just because the coach's feel that way; does not make it the correct decision. I also said that he should play more when we have the game in hand. In general, I never trust the coaches to pick the best players. Mainly they do, but I still have to see it myself. I will live with their decisions but then I guess you (I mean you Nick) have to say that Kirksey is the best we have because the coaches are playing him. I don't believe that. Something more realistic (to me) to say is that Pettine wanted Kirksey, Gute went and got him, and now Pettine feels like he has to play him. Also, Pettine being conservative (or scared) by nature, thinks Kirksey is safer. Not that I want Pettine to go with his all out blitzes because I don't think they are effective with him designing it.

 

[GleefulGary]

I agreed but the key word is moments. That means not very much.

Uhhh...yeah. He got some time, he didn’t look good, and then he doesn’t get more time. Seems logical.

Burks has had LOTS of opportunities to take the job. He never did. He just isn’t very good.

 

[swhitset]

Uhhh...yeah. He got some time, he didn’t look good, and then he doesn’t get more time. Seems logical.

Burks has had LOTS of opportunities to take the job. He never did. He just isn’t very good.

I never understood that draft pick in the first place. His college film looked pretty bad and yet the Packers traded up to get back into the 3rd round to draft him when it was widely assumed that he wasn’t even a 3rd round prospect.

 

[Mondio]

He was never my favorite draft pick, but he had the athleticism I guess in the drills they thought they could make him into a different position. Doesn't appear to have worked at all. I have noticed him in a pretty good way on special teams. As LB'er, I see him at outside now. Can't say i've seen him at ILB recently but i've been known to miss things.

 

[gopkrs]

Uhhh...yeah. He got some time, he didn’t look good, and then he doesn’t get more time. Seems logical.

Burks has had LOTS of opportunities to take the job. He never did. He just isn’t very good.

You most certainly can be right. I just see the lousy play as confusion more than physical. I am not saying to put the season on the line with him. I like the two youngsters better. But he does seem good on special teams. Maybe there is a place for him there. He won't be expensive if he is still around.

 

[swhitset]

You most certainly can be right. I just see the lousy play as confusion more than physical. I am not saying to put the season on the line with him. I like the two youngsters better. But he does seem good on special teams. Maybe there is a place for him there. He won't be expensive if he is still around.

I’ve seen enough of Burks. This is his 3rd year and he actually had quite a lot of chances... more last year than this... but remember that the coaches see these guys in practice too.

 

[easyk83]

Yep, he stinks and is a bust. Being voted to the pro bowl on the Packers ST can't be that hard. It's like getting a participation trophy.

Special teamers typically do not get much mention and its not each team gets to send a candidate. Burks has been a pretty good STer for us and frankly one of the few who seems to know what he's doing. Once you get past him Summers and Ramsey and its basically just a dumping ground for development of talent.

Here's the Packer fan/team ST waltz.

Step 1: Hire ST coordinator
Step 2: Dismiss able special teams players while *****ing about ST Coordinator
Step 3: Fire ST Coordinator

This team consistently has bad ST partly because TT and now Gute value that part of the roster less than most teams and tend to devote less roster spots to players who merely demonstrate an aptitude for that part of the game. Burks is a pretty good player for us on special teams, and since we get some contribution out of him hes not a bust. We let Burks go and our coverage units will be worse for it.

 

[gopkrs]

Special teamers typically do not get much mention and its not each team gets to send a candidate. Burks has been a pretty good STer for us and frankly one of the few who seems to know what he's doing. Once you get past him Summers and Ramsey and its basically just a dumping ground for development of talent.

Here's the Packer fan/team ST waltz.

Step 1: Hire ST coordinator
Step 2: Dismiss able special teams players
Step 3: Let capable unit players go, ***** about the ST coordinator.
Step 4: Fire ST Coordinator

This consistently has bad ST partly because TT and now Gute value that part of the roster less than most teams and tend to devote less roster spots to players who merely demonstrate aptitude for that part of the game. Burks is a pretty good player for us on special teams, and since we get some contribution out of him hes not a bust. We let Burks go and our coverage units will be worse for it.

I agree but I would put (hopefully) fire ST coach first. And then hire another bad special teams coach 2nd. Dismissing good special teams players so as to hold on to the hope that someone will develop is not a good idea imho. How many core ST players should you have? My guess would be around 5 and fill in with the developmental players. Normally a good special teams player would be able to fill in somewhere if absolutely necessary.

 

[GleefulGary]

You most certainly can be right. I just see the lousy play as confusion more than physical. I am not saying to put the season on the line with him. I like the two youngsters better. But he does seem good on special teams. Maybe there is a place for him there. He won't be expensive if he is still around.

If he’s still confused at this point in time, then it just isn’t gonna click with him. That’s not a good excuse, imo. Some players are instinctive, he is not.

 

[gopkrs]

And so...does that mean you get rid of him even if he plays very well on special teams?

 

[swhitset]

And so...does that mean you get rid of him even if he plays very well on special teams?

It means he’s no help where the Packers desperately need it at middle linebacker. If the Packers feel he’s worth keeping around for special teams, fine.... but he’s not part of the conversation regarding the title of this thread.