Linebackers

[GleefulGary]

More reps can make that difference. Summers has very little experience playing LB in this league.The same goes for Barnes and Martin. The slow and uneven development of Burks has really hurt this unit. The defensive line failings has exacerbated the problem. We don’t have the right mix of youth and experience in the middle of the front 7 IMO.

Summers is just bad. I think that’s my main takeaway. Experience isn’t gonna fix that.

 

[ARPackFan]

I believe the Packers built their defense on the philosophy that they'd have the lead most of the time, and the other team would have to pass and play catch-up....That's why they invested in pass-rushers and the secondary, and not in thumpers in the middle.

Whether or not that's a good strategy is debatable....

You may be right but it does not make sense to basically place winning/losing on the offense to keep the opposing team in catch up mode. The problem with that approach is the game where the offense can't get on track and opposing teams play run first/ball control. Here's hoping the Packers get the #1 seed and a bye so they only need Rodgers to be on for three games.

I'm telling you right now, if Owusu-Koramoah is still there when we pick in the 2021 draft and we don't draft him...whomever we do BETTER be solid. I truly believe Owusu is the real deal

He looks a bit undersized but is friggin' fast for a LB and is a tackling machine. The energy he would bring may compensate for his non-prototype build. Looks like a safety to me in the NFL (6'-1", 215 #, 4.4 40 speed) and IMO not a first round pick at ILB. Fantastic college player but when faced with faster OL weekly will he be the same in the NFL?

 

[Mondio]

Every team has a path to success or defeat.

 

[ARPackFan]

Every team has a path to success or defeat.

Winning a SB is about skill with a little luck. The hope is that another team defeats your kryptonite. Playoffs are like paper, rock, scissors, lizard, Spock.

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[Dantés]

He looks a bit undersized but is friggin' fast for a LB and is a tackling machine. The energy he would bring may compensate for his non-prototype build. Looks like a safety to me in the NFL (6'-1", 215 #, 4.4 40 speed) and IMO not a first round pick at ILB. Fantastic college player but when faced with faster OL weekly will he be the same in the NFL?

He would likely play the dime LB role that Greene and Scott have been deployed in recently.

 

[easyk83]

Redmond has been awful. Sullivan started strong, but has struggled recently.

KeKe has shown flashes, but a stud? Not even close. He gets washed out in the run game far too often, and is an inconsistent pass rusher, but he has very good moments. And that’s fine, takes some time to develop.

Jaire is just good, even if he had me coaching him.

My largest issue with the defense is what Dantes has been saying, the fundamentals are lacking. The players communicate poorly with zone coverage and switching. It’s been 3-4 years of Pettine, and guys still don’t know where to drop in the coverages, and they don’t seem to know how to adjust that based on situations! They miss gaps, they tackle poorly, they just aren’t prepared. Late getting set, not recognizing alignments, I could go on and on.

He's gotten a quite bit of positive press for an interior guy including shout outs from former players, how many interior players notch more than say 3 sacks a year? Yeah I think he's turning into a very good young player with a high upside. Bear in mind that we play a lot of light fronts even when teams show run. Our interior DLs are put on the spot frequently.

Redmond I oversold, you know a bit, and I'll grant you that overall there are a lot of blemishes with how this defense functions as a unit. However, it's generally a good sign when you start to see young players turning out from across your draft boards.

Personally I'm under the impression that our defense looks markedly better, like it could even be a good unit, when Gary is out there as opposed to Preston.

 

[PackAttack12]

Redmond has been awful. Sullivan started strong, but has struggled recently.

KeKe has shown flashes, but a stud? Not even close. He gets washed out in the run game far too often, and is an inconsistent pass rusher, but he has very good moments. And that’s fine, takes some time to develop.

Jaire is just good, even if he had me coaching him.

My largest issue with the defense is what Dantes has been saying, the fundamentals are lacking. The players communicate poorly with zone coverage and switching. It’s been 3-4 years of Pettine, and guys still don’t know where to drop in the coverages, and they don’t seem to know how to adjust that based on situations! They miss gaps, they tackle poorly, they just aren’t prepared. Late getting set, not recognizing alignments, I could go on and on.

I think if we see another defensive meltdown in the playoffs this year, LaFleur will finally get to pick his own DC. I've defended Pettine a lot, but it's been wearing thin with me of late.

 

[Mondio]

Sullivan is a good depth guy, he still has a ways to go to be someone you can rely on to be on the field all game. Not a huge fan of Redmond.

 

[PikeBadger]

Sullivan is a good depth guy, he still has a ways to go to be someone you can rely on to be on the field all game. Not a huge fan of Redmond.

Ideally, we find a guy better than Sullivan via draft but I rather doubt that draft pick would be better until 2022. I do expect us to draft a CB in our first 3 picks this draft.

 

[gopkrs]

Ideally, we find a guy better than Sullivan via draft but I rather doubt that draft pick would be better until 2022. I do expect us to draft a CB in our first 3 picks this draft.

I think tackling is really important for a CB. One reason Jaire is as good as he is, is because he can tackle very well and is not afraid to mix it up. Speaking of CBs; I'm not sure King should be in there covering small, quick, speedy receivers when the other team matches him up that way.

 

[Krabs]

I know there has been a bit of scope creep and the thread has kinda turned into a chat about the defense as a whole. However, I'm going to turn my attention back to the ILB position. One thing is perfectly clear about the philosophy of the Packers and has been for years. They do not value the ILB position. They clearly value CB's, OLB's, and DL. They never pay for or go after ILB's.

A team can't have it all and if they do they happened to get lucky. In a year or two the salary cap and the demand for money by the players evens that out. With that said, I think the Packers just clearly show the pecking order of important positions to them. With the can't have it all strategy they take ILB's late in the draft and hope to hit on them.

I think it also fits Pettine's philosophy of that it is okay to give up run yards in a passing league. It is clearly not working this season. I believe I heard in the Eagles game that the Packers give up points on 97% of drives where the opponent gets into the redzone and 64% of those trips end in TD's. Bend to the run, but don't break to the pass just isn't working.

I like the good young prospects at ILB. I look at them as good quality depth though. Not as NFL starting caliber players.

 

[tynimiller]

Want a good tackling CB that could be special depending on how he grows, Keith Taylor - Washington. They've used him inside, outside and even as a sub package LB. He is 6'3" just shy of 200lbs and is willing to throw his body around - with above average speed for his size. I like him anywhere 3rd-5th. Projected us nabbing him in the 4th most recently.

 

[gopkrs]

I think it also fits Pettine's philosophy

Hope we have a new philosopher sooner than later.

 

[Poppa San]

GBFO: What, why dont we just draft a punter in the bottom of the first.

Because we need one and if there is anything I learned reading this board is the Packers never draft for need.

 

[PikeBadger]

I’ve always thought they draft more for what they think they’ll need 18 months out and then go after BPA on their board that meet that need. If a great talent has fallen that is standing alone on their board, they go after him. Just my opinion after watching Thompson and Gutekunst operate over the last 15 years.

 

[mradtke66]

I think it also fits Pettine's philosophy of that it is okay to give up run yards in a passing league. It is clearly not working this season. I believe I heard in the Eagles game that the Packers give up points on 97% of drives where the opponent gets into the redzone and 64% of those trips end in TD's. Bend to the run, but don't break to the pass just isn't working.

It worked adequately last year, though obviously you'd like to be able to be stout(er) when facing a team like the 2019 49ers.

They do not value the ILB position. They clearly value CB's, OLB's, and DL. They never pay for or go after ILB's.

For the most part, I agree with their approach. ILB generally isn't an impact position.

It is a passing league, so the snot-bubble MLB of years past is less valuable. Against 90% of the league, he's a 1-2 down player. And when he is on the field, a good offense will work to identify his pass coverage responsibilities and target him. ILB is basically the defense equivalent of the fullback.

Instead, you want a good coverage guy who's smart and good enough to not be a liability in the run defense. Turns out those guys are rare, so you have to draft them early. There is normally only 1-2 guys per draft that meet this criteria and they go early. Normally we draft too late to have a chance at these guys.

So we're left with taking oversized safeties and late round prospects and hope we can cobble together an adequate ILB platoon.

 

[Krabs]

Hope we have a new philosopher sooner than later.

I wanted them to keep Pettine when McMuffin got let go. Man, they should have just cleaned house.

 

[thisisnate]

Want a good tackling CB that could be special depending on how he grows, Keith Taylor - Washington. They've used him inside, outside and even as a sub package LB. He is 6'3" just shy of 200lbs and is willing to throw his body around - with above average speed for his size. I like him anywhere 3rd-5th. Projected us nabbing him in the 4th most recently.

call me a simple man, but anytime i see a corner 6' 2" or over, i'm not going to be enthusiastic about them

 

[easyk83]

I blame Jack Vainisi, he shoulda prepared for the future better.

 

[tynimiller]

call me a simple man, but anytime i see a corner 6' 2" or over, i'm not going to be enthusiastic about them

Eh, it all depends how one plans on using him. IF a taller DB doesn't illustrate to be the next Richard Sherman style outside corner, there is for sure a spot for them in situations where you have an opposing team that splits RBs or TEs out a decent amount while also keeping them in. A slightly larger DB with coverage skills and a nack for tackling can hold true value.

Mind you as I outline this is not a Top Prospect Cornerback, or a guy I suspect to come in and instantly start (those rarely happen in the 3rd to 5th round).

 

[jetfixer]

Yeah, since we traded up for the QB, and Patrick Queen was picked a few after, we would look good with him in the middle. IMO

 

[gopkrs]

We may have two good linebackers on the team. Just don't play them much.

 

[Krabs]

Yeah, since we traded up for the QB, and Patrick Queen was picked a few after, we would look good with him in the middle. IMO

I know this has been talked about a lot, but I will bite again. I really thought they were moving up in the draft to take Queen. I thought to myself, "they're going to do it". "They are going to draft Queen". I was genuinely excited that we were finally going to have our answer at MLB. Well, insert prices right losing jingle in when Love's name was called.

 

[jon]

PS: What happened to Oren Burks?

Currently third in pro bowl voting for special teams, I read, can't get on the field for defense.

 

[PikeBadger]

I blame Jack Vainisi, he shoulda prepared for the future better.

As irony would have it, Vainisi died one month before the Packers played in the first of six championship games they would play in with the core of players and coach he was responsible for bringing to Green Bay.