Linebackers

tynimiller

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We have a lot of cuts coming. Currently 2021 WAY OVER CAP...

Kirksey, Wagner, Lowry all are 100% out IMO.

Preston is a costly cut but necessary. You cut all them spotrac has us around $3M out of the hole and under the cap finally.
 

gopkrs

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I'm not suggesting King is an elite cornerback by any means but aside of Alexander the Packers don't have a better one.
I totally agree. Only saying we should try to scheme him off of the really quick receivers. Or give him some help. I am sure there are times when that can happen. Except for that, I think King is very good.
 

gopkrs

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No you are correct, AJ Brown is a coverage nightmare and Corey Davis is NO SLOUCH either.
AJ Brown is a big guy. Maybe King could do well against him. Would not mind seeing King move around to cover him. At least until it looks like that was a bad idea.
 

Poppa San

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Can you explain this? I'm only thinking in terms of physical attributes of the receiver.
I've seen this done by other teams. You put your best cover CB on the #2 WR. Double team the #1 WR with your other CB and safety. Should take both WR's out of the play.
 

tynimiller

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I've seen this done by other teams. You put your best cover CB on the #2 WR. Double team the #1 WR with your other CB and safety. Should take both WR's out of the play.

Honestly I'm surprised we don't see this more on Adams really.
 
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I do think Kirksey is our best ILB right now.

Kirksey might be the most assignment sure inside linebacker currently on the roster but I doubt he's actually the best one of the group.

Gotcha, Kirksey really is the only one of the three I think may get cut. They may wait to see what they nab in the draft though...at $8M cap hit and a $2M dead cap number... he is a rather expensive backup/rotational guy to keep.

The Packers most likely can't afford to keep Kirksey until the draft as they have to get under the cap at the start of the league year in March.

I totally agree. Only saying we should try to scheme him off of the really quick receivers. Or give him some help. I am sure there are times when that can happen. Except for that, I think King is very good.

I've seen this done by other teams. You put your best cover CB on the #2 WR. Double team the #1 WR with your other CB and safety. Should take both WR's out of the play.

The offense will find a way to scheme the receivers in a way they like to be covered as well though.
 

tynimiller

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The Packers most likely can't afford to keep Kirksey until the draft as they have to get under the cap at the start of the league year in March.

Appreciate it , I always forget the timings. In that case 100% he is gone.
 

tynimiller

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tynimiller

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That was a good article @tynimiller I came here to post just that. He certainly looks like a keeper.

Is he still young and bit raw; NO QUESTION.

Is he illustrating tremendous signs of having IT; NO QUESTION.

I'll admit Gute did good loading up at that spot with FA acquisition, draft equity and UDFA equity...Kamal still appears could excel as well. *Stinks the FA acquisition is the one not panning out.

With Kirksey leaving no doubt, I like the looks of 3rd-5th round in this next draft again for LB depth assistance once more.
 
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XPack

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Found this in another site. Quite some interesting conclusions we can draw from this...

- Za'Darius is second most linebacker to be double teamed (after JJ Watt, but far less productive)
- Preston was very underwhelming.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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I think we have to see the game beyond the stats. Our DL gets very little push without assistance from the 2nd and 3rd level. Kenny will and does cause disruption all on his own, but for the most part we are either stalemated in the trenches or going backwards.

Z is special, no doubt about it, and Gary(how come he isn't on the chart? Number of snaps?) has a bit more "twitch" than either of the two. Again, Preston shows up in other ways on the stat sheet. Again, tell me a player who overnight who does what he does on this roster right now. I promise you don't want to see this defense without him given our pre-existing shortcomings.
 
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Does that include when Preston dropped into coverage?
The graph is pretty much self explanatory on what it tracks.

The question is does gains of Preston dropping into coverage more than his drop in sack rate? I can't find any full season stats, but these 2 articles may give some information.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/28/breaking-down-preston-smiths-performance-against-texans/

While Preston Smith’s numbers have tapered off, Za’Darius Smith’s have stayed mostly consistent. His 6.0 sacks are first on the team and tied for third in the league. Meanwhile, Preston Smith is tied for 241st.

One thing that has been noticeable is Preston Smith being asked to drop back in coverage more so than last season. However, it hasn’t been enough to justify the drop in his statistics. According to Pro Football Focus, Preston Smith was in coverage for 15 percent of his snaps in 2019. This season, that percentage is up to 17.5. Clearly not enough to offer a reasonable explanation.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/preston-smith-makes-noise-down-in-houston-112

In the Packers' first five games this season, Smith had dropped into coverage 51 times. Do you know how many times he dropped into coverage through the first five games a season ago? That's right, 51.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/preston-smith-feeling-like-lockdown-corner

Through three games, no edge defender in the NFL has dropped into coverage more frequently than Smith. According to Pro Football Focus, he’s played 38 coverage snaps. That’s 11 more than any other edge defender. For his playful boasting, he has not been an island. But he hasn’t been an overcrowded city, either. By PFF’s judgement, he’s allowed 5-of-7 passing for 45 yards. His 1.18 yards allowed per coverage snap ranks 11th out of 17 edge defenders with at least a dozen coverage snaps.

I can presume based on above that yes, he's dropping more into coverage, but neither the increased coverage snap count nor his performance in coverage were significant enough to balance out the drop in sack rate.
 

gopkrs

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The graph is pretty much self explanatory on what it tracks.

The question is does gains of Preston dropping into coverage more than his drop in sack rate? I can't find any full season stats, but these 2 articles may give some information.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/28/breaking-down-preston-smiths-performance-against-texans/



https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/preston-smith-makes-noise-down-in-houston-112



https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/preston-smith-feeling-like-lockdown-corner



I can presume based on above that yes, he's dropping more into coverage, but neither the increased coverage snap count nor his performance in coverage were significant enough to balance out the drop in sack rate.
JMO but next year when we and they know we are rushing, and we have Preston, Kenny, Zadarius, and Rashan at the same time; we will be good doing that.
 
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The question is does gains of Preston dropping into coverage more than his drop in sack rate? I can't find any full season stats, but these 2 articles may give some information.

At the end of the season, Preston had dropped less into coverage in 2020 (13.2% of the snaps) than during the previous season (15.3%).
 

gopkrs

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At the end of the season, Preston had dropped less into coverage in 2020 (13.2% of the snaps) than during the previous season (15.3%).
Still a lot. And I believe he was kept on the line quite a bit also. Without attempting to rush. Just watching the play.
 

GleefulGary

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Still a lot. And I believe he was kept on the line quite a bit also. Without attempting to rush. Just watching the play.

Pretty standard for a 3-4 team to have an edge that drops. Most of the time you’re only rushing 4.
 

gopkrs

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Pretty standard for a 3-4 team to have an edge that drops. Most of the time you’re only rushing 4.
standard to you is a waste to me. At least most of the time with Preston. Don't see Zadarius doing it. Normally the edge makes 4. Or you should actually have someone who can cover.
 

mradtke66

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standard to you is a waste to me. At least most of the time with Preston. Don't see Zadarius doing it. Normally the edge makes 4. Or you should actually have someone who can cover.

Preston is actual a decent cover man for a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 SOLB.

And rushing 4 as a base call is universal in all schemes. You don't want to blitz. Other coverages are possible, but the basic goal is to rush 4, play 5 cover men in Man-to-Man and keep both safeties deep. Cover 4, 3, and 2 also require 7 men in coverage.

In base, the 3 down linemen and one of the edge players typically rush. Z is far worse in coverage, so he drops less, Preston does it more. 12-15% strikes me as very reasonable for an OLB. (I would however like to find the source of these stats. Possible he drops more or less than typical.)

In sub-packages, it's harder to decide who should rush, who should drop. On Nickel downs, I'd expect him to drop sometimes. In Dime and lighter, I'd expect him to rush more.

I also would like to point out Present being the widest cover man in some calls certainly looks weird, but isn't actually odd in practice.

If Preston has a tight end or back responsibility and then that man shifts, motions, or just initially lines up out wide, who should cover him? A corner, just because the fullback lines up as flanker? And then what, have Preston take the WR that's lined up as a flexed tight end? Sometimes the best option isn't the "Most-Good," but the "Least Crappy."
 

Dantés

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standard to you is a waste to me. At least most of the time with Preston. Don't see Zadarius doing it. Normally the edge makes 4. Or you should actually have someone who can cover.

I know that this is your pet peeve, but literally every single NFL team that uses rush linebackers drops them on occasion.
 
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Still a lot. And I believe he was kept on the line quite a bit also. Without attempting to rush. Just watching the play.

Preston rushed the passer on a higher percentage of snaps in 2020 (49.4%) than in '19 (47.2%). He just wasn't as productive doing it.
 

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