Lay off Favre

[Mr. StyleZ]

So your saying the Packers goal was not the Super Bowl? And the well documented part, tell me, which teams were not playing for a chance at the Super Bowl?

You really want to argue semantics? If you noticed, I used the word expectations earlier, which conveniently you left out. Just like your buddy. The Vikings were good no doubt without Brent, he was brought in for the sole purpose of putting them over the top. Brent became a Queen to win a SB. Did not happen.

You talk about 'goals'?? Never did i mention what a team's goal is. Thanks, *******...

Actually I have seen a lot of hate on Brett since he wanted to come back. That is when it started. Most of the fans who hate him now are the same ones who hated him when he tried to return to the Packers.

OK. Why don't we just talk about how Brent has always been hated by many? I mean since the 90's since that is where you're going. No. You're very foolish if you believe there is no HUGE difference between Brent as a Jet, and Brent as a Viking. You're grasping man, it's pathetic.

Of course, because the Packer never check up on who is actually getting the tickets. I have friends in Appleton with season tickets. They get grandpa's tickets. Problem is grandpa died 17 years ago. Accordingly he would be 103 this year. There are at least 2 teams for sure with longer season ticket waiting lists.

I'm not sure what your point is? There is some rule about this? Season tickets have always been passed down.. Yea teams have longer waiting lists, and again you cleverly tried to leave out the small populated surrounding area GB has. I believe one the of teams who have a longer waiting list is Washington. Really are we going to compare Wisconsin to the DC area? And I'll take a guess and say the other one is the NY Giants. And I'd like to say, you're talking again, by # of tickets, not HOW LONG the waiting list is...

They just do a better job of weeding out the dead people getting tickets.

Proof?

Good God man.. Are these seriously your arguments. I mean it's noble you're going to try to defend your fellow Queenie fan, but you're taking the wrong path.

 

[Raptorman]

You really want to argue semantics? If you noticed, I used the word expectations earlier, which conveniently you left out. Just like your buddy. The Vikings were good no doubt without Brent, he was brought in for the sole purpose of putting them over the top. Brent became a Queen to win a SB. Did not happen.

Ok, so Rodgers "expectations" were not the Super Bowl? Was it an 8-8 season? 10-6 season? What were the Packers "expectations"? And who on the Vikings said they "expected" to go to the Super Bowl? Find me a quote please. I can find several that said they would put the Super Bowl down as the "goal". I would say most players play the game on the "expectation" of having a chance to go to the Super Bowl. Otherwise why play?

You talk about 'goals'?? Never did i mention what a team's goal is. Thanks, *******...

As to the teams goals, if the teams "expectation" is a Super Bowl, is that not a goal? Ah yes, damn semantics again.

OK. Why don't we just talk about how Brent has always been hated by many? I mean since the 90's since that is where you're going. No. You're very foolish if you believe there is no HUGE difference between Brent as a Jet, and Brent as a Viking. You're grasping man, it's pathetic.

Hated by many? How many hated him in 96', in 2000? If he was hated by so many, why has his jersey been the number one selling jersey for the last up-teem number of years? Packer fans loved him until he retired/unretired in 2007.

I'm not sure what your point is? There is some rule about this? Season tickets have always been passed down.. Yea teams have longer waiting lists, and again you cleverly tried to leave out the small populated surrounding area GB has. I believe one the of teams who have a longer waiting list is Washington. Really are we going to compare Wisconsin to the DC area? And I'll take a guess and say the other one is the NY Giants. And I'd like to say, you're talking again, by # of tickets, not HOW LONG the waiting list is...

I left no population out, like how many season ticket holder's live in Milwaukee.(1.7 million in the metro area) Is that the Green or Gold package? Or how many live in the Fox Valley area between 30 and 50 miles of Green Bay, somewhere around 350,000 or so. Don't come at me with only people who live in Green Bay(225,000 Green Bay metro area) buy season ticket crap, because it's not true and you know it. Tickets are passed down all right. And some are passed down to people who sell them every game. I would be willing to bet that some die hard season ticket holders see different people sitting next to them every single game. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, that's the way the Packers set it up. But if you going to use the every game is sold out line, tell the whole damn truth about it. Come on, tell me I'm wrong, tell me only Packer season tickets holders go to games.

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

Hated by many? How many hated him in 96', in 2000? If he was hated by so many, why has his jersey been the number one selling jersey for the last up-teem number of years? Packer fans loved him until he retired/unretired in 2007.

For the same reason that newspapers are written at a 6th grade reading level. The same reason that guys like Bill O'Reilly are so popular. Unfortunately, most people in our society don't want to do the heavy lifting and actually spend time investigating facts and drawing conclusions. They want 30 second sound bytes. They want to be able to use their time to do the important things like play their X Box, text message make stupid videos to upload to youtube ...

Only Packer fans care what a snake this guy is. To everyone else, he is just "fun to watch" and his reckless kid on a sandlot style of play stimulates their short attention spans. Only Green Bay fans care about how he lied and deceived his way out of Green Bay to our arch rivals. And BTW, several Packer fans, myself included, fell out of love with him when he stopped being held accountable for ****** play and the "legend" grew further and further from reality. Like when he threw 6 picks against the Rams in the playoffs in 2001 and was quoted as saying 'they were lucky I didn't throw 10' (or something to that effect), or when he was mulling over retirement in one of his years of his annual kabuki attention getting dance and when asked about how his indecision hurt the Packers he was quoted as saying "what are they going to do, cut me??" Or like when he was quoted as saying 'it wasn't his job' to mentor a young Aaron Rodgers (but apparently it was his job to be a complete ***** to him).

Packer fans who never had him on a pedestal have for years known he isn't the "aw shucks, I just play for the love of the game" guy he always was made out to be. You know, the guy who several years ago was quoted as saying "he'd retire before ever playing for another team" and then tearfully retired and then did everything he could (both above and below the table) to run to our rivals and stick it to us because management actually had the GALL to say "enough".


Edit: Actually, here is the quote:

"I could have thrown eight had we gotten the ball back," Favre said after setting an ignominious career high in the worst playoff loss in Packers history. "I was going to keep chucking."

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=220120014

 

[angryguy77]

For the same reason that newspapers are written at a 6th grade reading level. The same reason that guys like Bill O'Reilly are so popular. Unfortunately, most people in our society don't want to do the heavy lifting and actually spend time investigating facts and drawing conclusions. They want 30 second sound bytes. They want to be able to use their time to do the important things like play their X Box, text message make stupid videos to upload to youtube ...

Only Packer fans care what a snake this guy is. To everyone else, he is just "fun to watch" and his reckless kid on a sandlot style of play stimulates their short attention spans. Only Green Bay fans care about how he lied and deceived his way out of Green Bay to our arch rivals. And BTW, several Packer fans, myself included, fell out of love with him when he stopped being held accountable for ****** play and the "legend" grew further and further from reality. Like when he threw 6 picks against the Rams in the playoffs in 2001 and was quoted as saying 'they were lucky I didn't throw 10' (or something to that effect), or when he was mulling over retirement in one of his years of his annual kabuki attention getting dance and when asked about how his indecision hurt the Packers he was quoted as saying "what are they going to do, cut me??" Or like when he was quoted as saying 'it wasn't his job' to mentor a young Aaron Rodgers (but apparently it was his job to be a complete ***** to him).

Packer fans who never had him on a pedestal have for years known he isn't the "aw shucks, I just play for the love of the game" guy he always was made out to be. You know, the guy who several years ago was quoted as saying "he'd retire before ever playing for another team" and then tearfully retired and then did everything he could (both above and below the table) to run to our rivals and stick it to us because management actually had the GALL to say "enough".

Packer fans are the most selfish out of any fans in the league.

Funny how you cut people for not doing their own research but you swallow what GB managment had to say.Both sides could have done better and both are at fault no doubt. But when you make fun of people who you claim don't research and follow the party line they are uneducated and ignorant. It sounds to me like you drink a little too much kool aid. You do know that the Packer org can fail and lie right?

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Packer fans are the most selfish out of any fans in the league.

Funny how you cut people for not doing their own research but you swallow what GB managment had to say. They hired Ari Fliecher who made a career out of lying for Bill Clinton as their PR guy and you seem to buy what they have to say. Both sides could have done better and both are at fault no doubt. But when you make fun of people who you claim don't research and follow the party line they are uneducated and ignorant. It sounds to me like you drink a little too much kool aid. You do know that the Packer org can fail and lie right?

Ari Fliecher was George W. Bush's press secretary. You should do your research before writing ridiculous statements. I'm done arguing whether Favre is a d-bag or not. I think we can all agree that we are better off with Rodgers and his record of mistake free football. I don't like living and dying with a qb. Give me Rodgers any day. I'm assuming we are all Packer fans here and I leave you with this.......THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE BIGGER THAN BRETT FAVRE.

 

[angryguy77]

Ari Fliecher was George W. Bush's press secretary. You should do your research before writing ridiculous statements. I'm done arguing whether Favre is a d-bag or not. I think we can all agree that we are better off with Rodgers and his record of mistake free football. I don't like living and dying with a qb. Give me Rodgers any day. I'm assuming we are all Packer fans here and I leave you with this.......THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE BIGGER THAN BRETT FAVRE.

Thats what you call a brain fart to the highest degree. An insult from you would have been acceptable there. I do know that but had it in my head that he was Billy Bobs PS. Whoa I guess thats what you call an epic fail on my part. But I will stand by what I said minus Ari.:sinking:

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Thats what you call a brain fart to the highest degree. An insult from you would have been acceptable there. I do know that but had it in my head that he was Billy Bobs PS. Whoa I guess thats what you call an epic fail on my part. But I will stand by what I said minus Ari.:sinking:

Its all good man. I didn't mean to be a ****. I stand by this though. The packers are bigger than Brett Favre is. I have said that since the beginning.

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

Ari Fliecher was George W. Bush's press secretary. You should do your research before writing ridiculous statements. I'm done arguing whether Favre is a d-bag or not. I think we can all agree that we are better off with Rodgers and his record of mistake free football. I don't like living and dying with a qb. Give me Rodgers any day. I'm assuming we are all Packer fans here and I leave you with this.......THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE BIGGER THAN BRETT FAVRE.

You believe what ever you want to believe "ANGRY GUY"... Your title is PERFECT for your new team, the BIQUEENS. You'll be able to stay angry for decades!!

Allouez - you said it all but your ending hit it square on the head. The Packers are bigger than Brett Favre. Some folks think Favre invented pro football and founded the Packers. Strange how they have 11 championships in 79 years without favre (or 14%) and 1 championship in 16 with favre (or 6%)... Favre bought into it himself and the consummate "team player" as he is anointed by fanboys and talking heads who only care about the sound bytes was anything but. He threw the Packers under the bus, then the Jets... His actions clearly indicate that he felt he was bigger than the team. Right or wrong (and IMO he was clearly WRONG) sometimes grown ups will do the right thing and take the high road even if they think they are "right." Brett favre didn't do that, he torched every bridge in sight and kicked, screamed and held his breath until he could get to the one team where he could have a chance to embarrass the Packers (and then by extension - their fans). If you don't get that, then just ask yourself if you could EVER see Bart Starr doing something like that - even if he thought he was RIGHT! ****, they gave him a head coaching job when he had never coached before and then just when he was getting decent at it they canned him - a franchise icon. The man has never had a bad word to say about the franchise and they did play him wrong - unlike favre.

ESPN Radio - SuperStream Player

 

[angryguy77]

Its all good man. I didn't mean to be a ****. I stand by this though. The packers are bigger than Brett Favre is. I have said that since the beginning.

No problem here, you were courteous about it.

 

[IronMan]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X01xSlFOYzA]YouTube - Leave Brett Favre Alone[/ame]

 

[PackersRS]

Thats what you call a brain fart to the highest degree. An insult from you would have been acceptable there. I do know that but had it in my head that he was Billy Bobs PS. Whoa I guess thats what you call an epic fail on my part. But I will stand by what I said minus Ari.:sinking:

No problem here, you were courteous about it.

Stuff like this is what separates you from other "ranters" in this forum.

Nicely done man. Totally disagree with what you said, but you were definitely the bigger man in this argument.

 

[longtimefan]

You do know that the Packer org can fail and lie right?

Show me the lies?

Exact quotes showing the lies?

I got a page of Brett ones when your done

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

I got a page of Brett ones when your done

**** - only a page? What font size you using??

 

[longtimefan]

**** - only a page? What font size you using??

tiny

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

tiny

Classic:viksux:

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

I can't take credit for this post - I lifted if off of a guy from another board... But I agree with it 100%
--------------------------------------------------------

When are people going to wake up and realize that Favre is as popular as he is because he is one of the most fun QB's to watch play and he is as tough as nails? It surely isn't because he can come through for you in the clutch or be productive in the playoffs...although with the media's spin, most people actually believe that. Here is a nice little recap I borrowed from a different site and makes me so happy that Favre isn't around anymore to break our hearts year after year.

Jan. 20, 2002
The storyline: The 12-4 Packers have a shot to reach the conference championship game for first time since the 1997 season if they beat 14-2 Rams in the divisional round.

The result: BrettFavre throws 6 picks – tying the single-game NFL record for postseason picks last matched by a passer back in 1955.

Jan. 4, 2003
The storyline: The 12-4 Packers were one of the best teams in football, playing at home against the tepid 9-6-1 Falcons.

The result: Brett Favre sinks like a lead weight, reserving one of his worst performances of the year (20 of 42, 47.6%, 247 yards, 5.9 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT, 54.4 rating) for when it matters most in a 27-7 loss. It was Green Bay's lowest offensive output of the season. The Packers suffered their first-ever home playoff loss in franchise history.

Jan. 11, 2004
The storyline: The Packers need to produce just one drive in overtime to beat the Eagles and then battle the Panthers for a chance to go to Super Bowl XXXVIII.

The result: On Green Bay's first play of overtime, Brett Favre tossed a bad pass into the hands of Eagles defender Brian Dawkins. Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb quickly drove his offense into easy field goal range for the victory. Brett Favre passed for 180 yards, one of his lowest outputs of the year.

Jan. 9, 2005
The storyline: The 10-6 Packers draw a gimme, landing the 8-8 Vikings at home in the wildcard round of the NFC playoffs.

The result: Favre turns out a gruesomely disfiguring playoff performance (22 of 33, 66.7%, 216 yards, 6.5 YPA, 1 TD, 4 INT, 55.4 rating), as Packers suffer a humiliating 31-17 loss to one of the worst teams ever to reach the playoffs. Had the Seahawks not lost to the Rams just one day earlier, Favre would have been the first quarterback in history to lose a playoff game to a .500 team.

Jan. 20, 2008
The storyline: Brett Favre’s 13-3 Packers were favored at home against the 10-6 Giants on one of the coldest nights in Lambeau Field history.

The result: Brett Favre, and the Packers offense, suffered one of the most colossal collapses in history. In the fourth quarter and overtime, Favre completed 4 of 10 passes for 32 yards with 2 INTs. Green Bay’s final four drives, with a Super Bowl appearance easily within their grasp, went for 0, 7, 0 and 2 yards.

Favre’s final pick, on the second play of overtime, led directly to the Giants’ game-winning field goal.

The 2008 season
The storyline: Brett Favre moves to a new team and leads the Jets to an AFC East-best 8-3 record through 11 games.

The result: Brett Favre was dreadful during the team’s stretch-run collapse, throwing 2 TDs against 9 picks. INTs lead directly to losses, and the Jets went 1-4 over the final five games, and missed the playoffs despite their hot 8-3 start.

Jan. 24, 2010
The storyline: Brett Favre’s Vikings totally outplay the favored Saints in New Orleans for four quarters in the NFC title game.

The result: Brett Favre’s Vikings are tied 28-28 with 19 seconds to play and face a 3rd and 15 at the Saints 38. They need a mere five yards to get a shot at a game-winning field goal to send Minnesota to the Super Bowl for the first time in 33 years and fulfill all the hopes and dreams that the organization put in the quarterback when they hastily signed Brett Favre during training camp.

The only thing Brett Favre can’t do is throw an interception.

So … BrettFavre throws an interception right into the hands of Tracy Porter. The Saints get the ball in overtime and proceed to go down and kick the game-winning field goal.

 

[PackersRS]

I can't take credit for this post - I lifted if off of a guy from another board... But I agree with it 100%
--------------------------------------------------------

When are people going to wake up and realize that Favre is as popular as he is because he is one of the most fun QB's to watch play and he is as tough as nails? It surely isn't because he can come through for you in the clutch or be productive in the playoffs...although with the media's spin, most people actually believe that. Here is a nice little recap I borrowed from a different site and makes me so happy that Favre isn't around anymore to break our hearts year after year.

Jan. 20, 2002
The storyline: The 12-4 Packers have a shot to reach the conference championship game for first time since the 1997 season if they beat 14-2 Rams in the divisional round.

The result: BrettFavre throws 6 picks – tying the single-game NFL record for postseason picks last matched by a passer back in 1955.

Jan. 4, 2003
The storyline: The 12-4 Packers were one of the best teams in football, playing at home against the tepid 9-6-1 Falcons.

The result: Brett Favre sinks like a lead weight, reserving one of his worst performances of the year (20 of 42, 47.6%, 247 yards, 5.9 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT, 54.4 rating) for when it matters most in a 27-7 loss. It was Green Bay's lowest offensive output of the season. The Packers suffered their first-ever home playoff loss in franchise history.

Jan. 11, 2004
The storyline: The Packers need to produce just one drive in overtime to beat the Eagles and then battle the Panthers for a chance to go to Super Bowl XXXVIII.

The result: On Green Bay's first play of overtime, Brett Favre tossed a bad pass into the hands of Eagles defender Brian Dawkins. Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb quickly drove his offense into easy field goal range for the victory. Brett Favre passed for 180 yards, one of his lowest outputs of the year.

Jan. 9, 2005
The storyline: The 10-6 Packers draw a gimme, landing the 8-8 Vikings at home in the wildcard round of the NFC playoffs.

The result: Favre turns out a gruesomely disfiguring playoff performance (22 of 33, 66.7%, 216 yards, 6.5 YPA, 1 TD, 4 INT, 55.4 rating), as Packers suffer a humiliating 31-17 loss to one of the worst teams ever to reach the playoffs. Had the Seahawks not lost to the Rams just one day earlier, Favre would have been the first quarterback in history to lose a playoff game to a .500 team.

Jan. 20, 2008
The storyline: Brett Favre’s 13-3 Packers were favored at home against the 10-6 Giants on one of the coldest nights in Lambeau Field history.

The result: Brett Favre, and the Packers offense, suffered one of the most colossal collapses in history. In the fourth quarter and overtime, Favre completed 4 of 10 passes for 32 yards with 2 INTs. Green Bay’s final four drives, with a Super Bowl appearance easily within their grasp, went for 0, 7, 0 and 2 yards.

Favre’s final pick, on the second play of overtime, led directly to the Giants’ game-winning field goal.

The 2008 season
The storyline: Brett Favre moves to a new team and leads the Jets to an AFC East-best 8-3 record through 11 games.

The result: Brett Favre was dreadful during the team’s stretch-run collapse, throwing 2 TDs against 9 picks. INTs lead directly to losses, and the Jets went 1-4 over the final five games, and missed the playoffs despite their hot 8-3 start.

Jan. 24, 2010
The storyline: Brett Favre’s Vikings totally outplay the favored Saints in New Orleans for four quarters in the NFC title game.

The result: Brett Favre’s Vikings are tied 28-28 with 19 seconds to play and face a 3rd and 15 at the Saints 38. They need a mere five yards to get a shot at a game-winning field goal to send Minnesota to the Super Bowl for the first time in 33 years and fulfill all the hopes and dreams that the organization put in the quarterback when they hastily signed Brett Favre during training camp.

The only thing Brett Favre can’t do is throw an interception.

So … BrettFavre throws an interception right into the hands of Tracy Porter. The Saints get the ball in overtime and proceed to go down and kick the game-winning field goal.

Do you see any tendency from those stats?

Who was, or more importantly, who wasn't the coach in those years?

How was Favre threated in those years? Was he allowed to do anything, because he was greater than life? Was he the star of the team, but a player like the others?

Why wasn't Favre doing the same before? Why was Favre much more careful with the ball?

Just some questions to get people thinking, and to fuel another one of my crazy theories about what the Green Bay Packers could've been...

 

[angryguy77]

Show me the lies?

Exact quotes showing the lies?

I got a page of Brett ones when your done

He was told that he could come back to compete for the job and then they said see ya once he called their bluff. I hear MM say that while being talked to by a local station. Like I said both sides acted like idiots, but neither are w/o fault.

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

Do you see any tendency from those stats?

Who was, or more importantly, who wasn't the coach in those years?

How was Favre threated in those years? Was he allowed to do anything, because he was greater than life? Was he the star of the team, but a player like the others?

Why wasn't Favre doing the same before? Why was Favre much more careful with the ball?

Just some questions to get people thinking, and to fuel another one of my crazy theories about what the Green Bay Packers could've been...

Oh yes, it all started the second Holmgren walked out the door. That is pretty hard to deny. He had YEARS of being treated with kid gloves by Rhodes and Sherman. He had to resent going back to being held accountable by TT/MM. His play this year proves that he still has the ability - he simply didn't have the desire to play disciplined ball for us in the post Holmy years. There is a story that under Sherman after favre would have a multiple pick game he would be given the day off of practice while the WRs had to run extra sprints... There were other stories how under Sherman in a meeting after a multiple pick game the OC wanted to show Brett film of his picks - you know, to see what he was doing wrong. Supposedly his reply was 'how about we watch some film of my TD passes first'

 

[PackersRS]

He was told that he could come back to compete for the job and then they said see ya once he called their bluff. I hear MM say that while being talked to by a local station. Like I said both sides acted like idiots, but neither are w/o fault.

I'm sorry but I haven't heard that. Not after Favre retired. Which is a key fact in the whole story.

What I did hear was the media saying that Favre should or would compete for a job. Never heard from the Packers' Organization.

If you have any link to prove that...

 

[PackersRS]

Oh yes, it all started the second Holmgren walked out the door. That is pretty hard to deny. He had YEARS of being treated with kid gloves by Rhodes and Sherman. He had to resent going back to being held accountable by TT/MM. His play this year proves that he still has the ability - he simply didn't have the desire to play disciplined ball for us in the post Holmy years. There is a story that under Sherman after favre would have a multiple pick game he would be given the day off of practice while the WRs had to run extra sprints... There were other stories how under Sherman in a meeting after a multiple pick game the OC wanted to show Brett film of his picks - you know, to see what he was doing wrong. Supposedly his reply was 'how about we watch some film of my TD passes first'

BINGO!

For the record, I don't know if it would've changed anything. I don't know if Favre would still be "uncoachable" had Holmgren stayed.

But the coaches' attitude towards him greatly influenced the way he behave and our fate.

I don't think this is what happened this year. I think his mind was much more in the game than in 10 years, and that it was simply a mistake he was prone to do being old. I don't think he audibled out of the play.

-

The way I see it, Favre had the talent to be the best QB the league had ever seen. But he didn't have the demeanor (Drunken altercations, drug addicts). When he was held accountable, he was arguably the greastest QB playing the game. When he was bigger than life, however...

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

The way I see it, Favre had the talent to be the best QB the league had ever seen. But he didn't have the demeanor (Drunken altercations, drug addicts). When he was held accountable, he was arguably the greastest QB playing the game. When he was bigger than life, however...

Wow did you hit that right on the head. Great post.

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

BINGO!

The way I see it, Favre had the talent to be the best QB the league had ever seen. But he didn't have the demeanor (Drunken altercations, drug addicts). When he was held accountable, he was arguably the greastest QB playing the game. When he was bigger than life, however...

Which, in a nutshell, is what has many Packer fans steamed. He could have played this way for us and chose not to. Who knows how many more trophies we could have had in our case? We didn't get his best, we got what he felt like giving us.

 

[Clay's Jock Strap]

Brett Favre and the Minnesota Vikings were brought down by Favre's fatal flaw - ESPN


If you are a favre fan - heed my warning and do NOT click on the link. It will maybe make you cry.

 

[Maddy]

Which, in a nutshell, is what has many Packer fans steamed. He could have played this way for us and chose not to. Who knows how many more trophies we could have had in our case? We didn't get his best, we got what he felt like giving us.

I think you have your jock strap too tight around your head. Are you kidding? Brett didn't give the Packers his best? You Packer fans will make up any excuse for MM & TT won't you?