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Jimmy Johnson's wisdom...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Bogart, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Before the Rams/Saints game on Fox Sunday, the discussion of Carson Palmer's trade came into play between Bradshaw, Long, Johnson, and Michael Strahan. I wish I had a video of it to share with you guys, cause Jimmy Johnson nails some key points here.

    According to him he said even if you have a player past his prime and want to keep him for something he did in the past, that's no excuse to keep them. When he took over Dallas, he only won a single game with the same roster that Tom Landry only won 3 games with. Everyone called him crazy for trading Dallas' only pro bowl players on the team.

    He stressed a good thought on trading the players that gave you quality years in the past, and it was a valuable listen about this topic. He claims it's the right thing to do to get rid of your pro bowlers near the end of their career and not hold onto them forever just because that one player had an awesome year 3 or 4 years back, or he's been with the team for over a decade.

    Speaking of the Carson Palmer trade, he strictly did not agree to it on behalf of the Raiders, and claimed even when he traded Hershel Walker, it benefited him greatly as it led to Emmitt Smith, where now the Bengals have draft picks that can lead to better players on their team.

    Now let's go back to his thoughts on trading players past their prime. Tom Landry was 3-13 with the same roster before Johnson took over, after only winning a single game in his debut season, Johnson traded Dallas' only pro bowl players on the roster, including their leading wide receiver. Remember when we traded Favre a few years back and everyone thought we were insane to get rid of a quarterback past his prime?

    It took only 3 years of team building for Johnson to win a Super Bowl in Dallas, using the league's youngest roster, and the following year he continued to upgrade on that roster. Last season Green Bay walked away with the Super Bowl wrapped in their arms, and were indeed the youngest team in the league, and their roster was built from the draft.

    I have a lot of respect for Johnson, and he has said some good things about the Packers management resulting in a Super Bowl win last season. While it's hard to believe today with how big of a mess Dallas has turned into, thanks to Jerry Jones, they were once well organized under Jones and Johnson to build a power house team in such a short span of time. They were called insane to trade Hershel Walker, the Packers were called crazy for trading Favre. I think the Johnson led Dallas team showed how the draft builds a young team from scrap to mold into a form of how you want your team to be. The Packers did the same thing in recent years, with a young team built around a pass heavy offense that led to a Super Bowl.

    It's easy to build a team on free agency or try to buy yourself a championship with money on good players, but the 2010 Packers, and 1992 Cowboys proved it's better off to build your team on the draft as they can get better and better, whereas keeping players past their prime and depending on free agents or veteran players can work, but it don't always work.
     
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  2. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    Building through the draft is always the way to go because you can take player and train them to be the player you want them to be that will benefit your offensive or defensive philosophies. When you sign a free agent it's usually a case of you're getting somebody elses recycled garbage. Free Agency is good in certain instances if there is that truly special player or player that will make a seamless transition into your franchise, but it's not the case very often.

    On a side note, I never watch the Fox Pregame shows. The whole panel (ironically aside from Jimmy) is just retarded. CBS Pregame show is better, but NFL Network Gameday morning is the best pre-game show, IMO.
     
  3. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    True, I hate Bradshaw, Strahan, and Howie Long gets on my nerves, but Jimmy Johnson sticks out as the only one that has any brains left after retiring.
     
  4. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    Yup. Bradshaw doesn't even really analyze anything. He just acts like a 5 year old cracking jokes
     
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  5. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    His best wisdom, he got out of coaching. :)
     
  6. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    We've had this very discussion with former coaches and players over on football pros. Trying to build a team for a one year run mostly seems to fail. See Eagles, Philadelphia.

    And that's why it's always a facepalm moment every time some idiot fan over here on these boards gets all crazy about why the Packers should sign some new, big name free agent some other team cut. Free agents seldom work out well, and certainly not for the longer term. Constantly bringing in one year rentals keeps your team stagnant and hinders development and long term chemistry. Plus it's costly, as veteran free agents expect, and often get, top dollar. This too puts restraints on what your team is able to to in future years.

    Look at our team- We're built for YEARS of solid success, and are in a good cap situation. We've hit some bumps in the past, and we'll undoubtedly hit some more. We're bound to lose some of our favorite players in the next 2-3 years as well. But the core nucleus is there, and they have chemistry. The veterans can help the new guys get up to speed quicker. This is a team built to sustain long term success. You simply cannot say that about many other teams in the NFL.

    Building through the draft with the rare free agent compliments is the ONLY way to go.
     
  7. Guacamole

    Guacamole Cheesehead

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    TT knows what he is doing,gotta love it

    Regarding your love for the CBS Show.........how do you like listening to Shannon Sharpe? He talks.sounds like he has a mouthful of horseshit in his mouth.
     
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  8. CarolinaPackerFan

    CarolinaPackerFan Packers fan in Panthers country

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    I would rank the pregame shows:
    NFL Network
    Fox
    ESPN
    CBS

    Idk why, but I've always hated the CBS pregame show.
     
  9. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Good points, the Packers don't over pay players, which I think helps by a mile run.

    You see what Philadelphia did this year thinking they could buy a championship with over paid players off free agency, and i don't care if Manning or Brady is your quarterback, I think the money they paid for Vick was way too much. Rodgers isn't in the top 5 paid quarterbacks, probably because he's not worried about making more money than he already has. Some of these players these days really disgust me over money and their contracts, like Chris Johnson. he got alllllll that money, and hasn't done anything since, cause it don't matter to him.

    When the Pack walked away with the trophy last year, it just showed a banged up team that wanted to win and wasn't worried about money.Think of all the back ups we had playing in the roles of all the injured players, none of them during the season were saying "I want more money" they were playing as a TEAM, and wanted to WIN a Super Bowl.

    If I could have just a quarter of what some of these guys make in a year, I'd be set for life. Go pay off my medical bills, have a surgery to fix my leg up, have money to build a dream house. They make way way way more than us fans will probably ever make in a lifetime.
     
  10. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    I actually like Sharpe his speech impediment actually makes for some great comic relief which he provides during the broadcast anyway. Everyone on the CBS panel knows football and is intelligent. The Fox panel is just a joke. I haven't seen a Fox Pre game in a while, do they still do segments with Frank Caliendo? That guy is enough of a reason to not watch Fox. He's not funny in the slightest. I feel slightly more stupid after watching his "comedic" segments.
     
  11. Guacamole

    Guacamole Cheesehead

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    FOX does their show for the significant others ,,,,so some guys get to watch the game? I think Frank is there during the playoffs only. Most shows are TOO much ado about nothing. Tebow this, Tebow that, game predictions that are rarely correct.... blah, blah, blah
     
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  12. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Did he quit or was he fired and what were the reasons behind it?

    Jimmy is one of the underrated coaches and Palmer seems somewhat overrated.
    I don't think he was ever in his prime to begin with. He will never be elite. IMO.
     
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  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Yes they do. I watch him anyway. It's like watching a train wreck after it's already happened. I keep expecting something exciting to happen and it never does. Some of his impersonations are spot on. Others suck. But all of his jokes are super lame.
    Yeah. I get bored with pre-game shows too which is why I don't watch them.
    I just want to see the game.
    It's funny how during the Super Bowl there are just as many hours or more of pre-game stuff than the big game itself.
     
  14. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    Good stuff. This is why I have been arguing with Colts fans for weeks now about potentially moving Manning and letting Reggie Wayne go. And taking Luck and starting over. It would hurt though but sometimes you have to consider these things for the future of a team.

    As much as I want to relive the past I know it is often better to move on to the future.

    The Packers have been a model lately on how to draft and build a team. Teams like the Colts (and even Pats) have missed on an awful lot of draft picks lately, especially on defense and they are suffering for it. A team like the Jets have given away plenty of picks in order to sign FAs to win now.
     
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  15. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Seeing the way both Cam and Tim are playing I think it's a crap shoot taking on a wunderkind college kid onto the NFL team. I can see how fans of losing teams want Luck so bad, but they should also realize that it will take more than just him to win games. Panthers and Broncos are examples of this.
    It takes a really good team and an excellent coaching staff.
    There are other priorities than just a QB.
     
  16. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Jimmy Johnson quit after Jerry Jones said he could win a Super Bowl with Barry Switzer, he told him to do it, I quit. He came back and coached Miami for one or two seasons, and since then many teams tried to lure him back to coaching but he stuck to his word on retiring, I got two rings, I had fun, let me kick back and enjoy life.

    While Newton is performing very well for a rookie, he don't have any help on defense giving up games for them. They should just make Greg Olsen a WR, switch to the Run and Shoot, and start airing it out in that formation, along with screens.

    Tebow is just overrated under achieving poster boy for jersey sales. I would have drafted him too if my jersey sales were low, but I said it a few years back that he would never have success in the NFL, and it looks like I was right considering he still runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off. They went from giving up 5 sacks with Orton under center, to giving up 13 sacks in just 2 games with Tebow (7 out of 13 sacks were from him running around). When you only complete 46%, it don't make you look as good as everyone claims you are. Stats don't lie....
     
  17. CarolinaPackerFan

    CarolinaPackerFan Packers fan in Panthers country

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    The man has started 5 games... I agree he doesn't look like a QB at all but everyone needs to give the kid some time. I for one also hate hearing about him every single day when I turn on the tv, but he doesn't ask for the media attention like Brent did. They all just flock to him. The Broncos just traded their top receiver and they have the and 20th ranked defense and rank 30th in pass protection. Not exactly a quarterback's dream. Will he ever be a solid NFL qb? I have no idea. Is it really going to kill the Broncos to give him some time? Probably not(unless Brady Quinn is the answer....)
     
  18. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Thompson's way isn't unique but he's on the extreme end of the "build through the draft" spectrum in the NFL. While many NFL observers appeared to think the Packers were crazy to jettison Favre, I remember a lot of pundits criticizing the Vikings for giving up so much for Walker. The Vikings also received two 3rd rounders ('90 and '91), a 5th rounder and 10th rounder, but look what they gave up:

    1990: Vikings' 1st rounder, 2nd rounder and 6th rounder.
    1991: Vikings' 1st and 2nd rounder.
    1992: Vikings' 2nd and 3rd rounder.
    1993: Vikings' 1st rounder.
    In addition the Cowboy's received LBs Jesse Solomon and David Howard, CB Issiac Holt, RB Darrin Nelson and DE Alex Stewart.

    Acquiring one player who didn't play the most important position in football, cost the Vikings THREE 1st rounders and TWO 2nd rounders, effectively "lopping off" the top of three consecutive drafts after the year of the trade. It did not take hindsight to figure out how foolish that was at the time.

    Johnson is too smart to go back to coaching. He's already wealthy and continues to get paid handsomely. He no longer has to put in 16+ hour days, no more headaches caused by owners, staff, or players. And there's absolutely no pressure. Only the stress of appearing on live TV for about an hour 20-21 times per year.
     
  19. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    For a quarterback that has had so much time on the bench, he could at least complete 50% of his passes.

    I hate hearing about him everyday.

    Denver went from giving up 7 sacks with Orton under center to giving up 13 with Tebow in just 2 games, so I don't think it's the O-line, most of his sacks are from him trying to run around.
     
  20. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I'm working pre-game so I don't see any of them. But to the discussion at hand; teams have gotten so good at the loopholes that if there are players on there team that they don't want to lose, they won't lose them. Period.
     
  21. 2411t

    2411t Cheesehead

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    Wait... so you're telling us to get rid of DriveR?!
     
  22. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    When did I say to get rid of Driver??
     
  23. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    He wasn't mentioned by name but I do think he fits the formula. I really hope he and Clifton are both able to retire healthy as SB champ after this season. I don't think Woodson is too far from this formula either. I don't see a ready replacement for him on the roster so I hope he can maintain for yet another year.
     

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