Is it time?

Release or trade

  • Keep

    Votes: 11 22.9%
  • Realease or trade

    Votes: 29 60.4%
  • Retire

    Votes: 8 16.7%

  • Total voters
    48

Sunshinepacker

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I love Rodgers but… more and more I’m starting to feel this way.

You can certainly make a case that Mahomes has a better supporting cast even after losing Hill (and Rodgers losing Adams) but even IF he had the same supporting cast at this point it’s very difficult for me to envision a scenario in which a one-legged Rodgers with his top target injured and further injuries around the offense is able to lead us past a Bengals-level team like Mahomes did. Rodgers is still a great player and certainly has the capacity to add to your win total but I’m not sure he is that “take over a big game” type of guy nowadays. Is Love that guy? I don’t have any idea.

Mahomes had a better defense and better supporting cast against the Bengals…. So i think it’s fair to say that with a much worse defense and less offensive help, Mahomes probably doesn’t beat the Bengals, since he only won by 3 with significantly more help.
 

Firethorn1001

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Given his recent astrology webinar, might need to look to the stars to see if it is time to move on.
 

Magooch

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Mahomes had a better defense and better supporting cast against the Bengals…. So i think it’s fair to say that with a much worse defense and less offensive help, Mahomes probably doesn’t beat the Bengals, since he only won by 3 with significantly more help.
Perhaps I didn't word it clearly but that's why I said "even if he [Rodgers] had the same supporting cast [as Mahomes]"

Of course it's all completely hypothetical but do you think we would've finished 9-8 with Mahomes as our QB? Do you think KC would be in the Super Bowl if Rodgers had been theirs this season? I'm probably one of the more pro-Rodgers posters on this board but I don't think we'd have done any worse with Mahomes and I don't think KC would've done any better with Rodgers, to say the least.
 

Cornelius Weems

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I love Rodgers but… more and more I’m starting to feel this way.

You can certainly make a case that Mahomes has a better supporting cast even after losing Hill (and Rodgers losing Adams) but even IF he had the same supporting cast at this point it’s very difficult for me to envision a scenario in which a one-legged Rodgers with his top target injured and further injuries around the offense is able to lead us past a Bengals-level team like Mahomes did. Rodgers is still a great player and certainly has the capacity to add to your win total but I’m not sure he is that “take over a big game” type of guy nowadays. Is Love that guy? I don’t have any idea.
Good point, if we had to play an ascending Bengals team, I don't see this years GBP team getting past them. Which is disappointing, but probably realistic. Any given Sunday, they could win, but sustaining wins? IDK, I didn't see them winning against any of the teams (in the playoffs) that made it to their respective conference championships.
 
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A lot of fans put way too much stock into the total number of passing yards while still not understanding that it takes a team to win championships.
That’s absolutely and positively true. However conversely, that statement is more an argument why NOT to pay your QB $50m+ plus or league high money.

I’m absolutely convinced you don’t need a Regular season MVP QB to win a Championship. You need balance and if anything leaning DEFENSE.
We faded from proper O resources and 17pts per put us in a poor position. $50.3M at QB last season shouldn’t equate to 17pts/GM for a half season. You can disagree all you want, but the proof is in the fruit. It’s rotten fruit and someone telling us rotten fruit tastes good doesn’t make it taste any fresher!

Scrap the rotten fruit and plant new trees if that’s the only resolution.
I’ll take my chances I’m tired of pretty blossoms and good looking fruit that spoils at harvest time. I’d rather have no fruit for a time and get a bumper crop later.
That’s me being nice! :)
 
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longtimefan

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Mvs is #7 in cap hit for KC

This forum would been up in arms if he got the 11 mill cap hit.

Yet...if not for him KC wouldn't have won the afccg
 
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That’s absolutely and positively true. However conversely, that statement is more an argument why NOT to pay your QB $50m+ plus or league high money.

I’m absolutely convinced you don’t need a Regular season MVP QB to win a Championship. You need
1. A top 7 area Defense or better
2. A Offense balance on Run/Pass
3. A top 8 area Offense
4. A ST unit that at minimum is League average area
5. Coaches that are fundamentally strong. (Understand clock control, probability experts, sense of game flow, field position Generals etc.. )
6. A QB who is consistent, but also one that can pull out a few big plays in a contest. Also a QB who rises to the occasion in high pressure games.

Having too much capital tied up in 1 aspect steals from other phases
Just ask Trent Dilfer
 

AKCheese

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Looking past his combined 10 completions on 23 attempts for 83 yards one interception (checks notes) ZERO touchdowns - in 3 consecutive 4th quarter year ending losses - lets look at his ability to bring a team from behind. When trailing by 10 points, Maholmes is 12 - 9 an almost insane 60% win percentage. Brady? 39/102, he leads his team to victory about 40% of the time after trailing by 10 Rodgers? 14 wins in 66 times trailing by 10 or more. About 20%. These stats dont include the Eagles or Bills games. Leadership matters. The ability to overcome adversity matters. If you want some on field eye rolling, on the bench pouting, and post game finger pointing - A-rod is your man. If you want a guy when the going is tough - not so much. Sorry - strip away the glitzy individual stats and MVPs - he’s not the guy you want come crunch time
 

Cornelius Weems

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Looking past his combined 10 completions on 23 attempts for 83 yards one interception (checks notes) ZERO touchdowns - in 3 consecutive 4th quarter year ending losses - lets look at his ability to bring a team from behind. When trailing by 10 points, Maholmes is 12 - 9 an almost insane 60% win percentage. Brady? 39/102, he leads his team to victory about 40% of the time after trailing by 10 Rodgers? 14 wins in 66 times trailing by 10 or more. About 20%. These stats dont include the Eagles or Bills games. Leadership matters. The ability to overcome adversity matters. If you want some on field eye rolling, on the bench pouting, and post game finger pointing - A-rod is your man. If you want a guy when the going is tough - not so much. Sorry - strip away the glitzy individual stats and MVPs - he’s not the guy you want come crunch time
Dang, and all those were home games, 10-23 for 83 yards, 1 pick and Zero TD's is quite d@mning, the 20% win rate when down by 10 for $58+ million (next season) is the real stunner. Close enough only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. IDK, he gave us some great, unbelievable wins, but not last season. Last season was a build up to a letdown. Defense, smefence, this thread is about the QB, JB needs to be fired, but AR was disappointing, and is 39, so I'll say it again, I think it is time.
 
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I wasn't trying to be rude, (I apologize if it came off that way) but I was looking for proof (reputable sources) and not examples of them being top 10 (that would only be the average if there were only 20 NFL teams) in certain categories, but overall all. I just was looking for proof as there are 32 NFL teams and 10 not being the average.

It seems you misunderstood my post. I pointed out that Mahomes has had the benefit of a top 10 scoring defense in each season from 2019-21 but this season only had an average one.

At 39, AR doesn't seem to have that, "get you over the hump" in him anymore, so maybe it's time to move on as he's due about $60 million in cap space this year. As I stated before, I'm a GBP fan, not just a AR fan.

I'm a Packers fan first and foremost as well. I agree that with the way Gutekunst structured Rodgers contract there's definitely a legit argument to be made that it's time to move on. The general manager better gets it right this time as he made a mistake in evaluating the quarterback once already.

I don't think anyone knows the degree to which the possibility of luring Rodgers played into Hackett landing the HC job in Denver. I find it hard to believe that any NFL organization would hire a first-time HC on the hope that they could lure a single player. That possibility could have been a small factor in the hiring decision, but not a significant one. Denver thought it was time for Hackett to get the big job. That obviously didn't work out. Contrast that with Hackett accepting the step backward to OC. The Jets know Hackett is a proven commodity at OC, so even if he doesn't lure Rodgers, it's a solid hire. I do not think Hackett got the Jets job with the expectation of luring Rodgers. Rather, he maintains a very good relationship with Rodgers and, if all the other aspects of a possible deal come into alignment, that relationship good prove important, perhaps even pivotal, in a scenario where Rodgers is weighing competing offers. Rodgers did not go to Denver, but that correlation with Hackett hires, does not cause the Jets dynamic to be impossible or implausible. The Jets are one of a few possible trading partners for Rodgers and the presence of Hackett only improves their odds against the competition. That's my only point.

You're most likely correct that neither team hired Hackett solely for the intention to acquire Rodgers because of it. The media and a lot of fans put too much stock into that aspect. It might have been a small factor in making those decisions though.

I seriously doubt any GM called Gute after the 2021 season inquiring about #12.

I'm absolutely convinced the Broncos inquired about the possibility to trade for Rodgers last offseason.

You can certainly make a case that Mahomes has a better supporting cast even after losing Hill (and Rodgers losing Adams) but even IF he had the same supporting cast at this point it’s very difficult for me to envision a scenario in which a one-legged Rodgers with his top target injured and further injuries around the offense is able to lead us past a Bengals-level team like Mahomes did. Rodgers is still a great player and certainly has the capacity to add to your win total but I’m not sure he is that “take over a big game” type of guy nowadays. Is Love that guy? I don’t have any idea.

I don't have any doubts that Mahomes is currently the best quarterback in the league. That's not the point of any of this though. The Packers need to figure out if it's smart to hold on to Rodgers by taking his unique contract into strong consideration. If they don't believe he will be able to carry them to another Super Bowl it's time to move on.

IDK, I didn't see them winning against any of the teams (in the playoffs) that made it to their respective conference championships.

You don't believe the Packers could have been able to beat the Niners playing without a QB?

That’s absolutely and positively true. However conversely, that statement is more an argument why NOT to pay your QB $50m+ plus or league high money.

Like it or not, teams need to pay elite quarterbacks a huge amount of money.

I’m absolutely convinced you don’t need a Regular season MVP QB to win a Championship.

Well, that statement has been proved to be correct over and over again.

We faded from proper O resources and 17pts per put us in a poor position. $50.3M at QB last season shouldn’t equate to 17pts/GM for a half season.

Just for the record, Rodgers counted $28.5 million towards the cap last season. That's the number you need to be looking at.
 

Pugger

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The Broncos may have made inquiries but after back to back MVPs Gute wasn't going to make a deal with them or anyone else after the 2021 season. Now they may be more receptive to a trade. We'll find out in couple of weeks.
 

Cornelius Weems

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You don't believe the Packers could have been able to beat the Niners playing without a QB?
I don't think we would have put them in the no QB situation. The QB injuries were flukish, but in SF even with no QBs, we probably would have struggled (JB's defense is just that bad), they had the #1 overall defense in the NFL, and he struggled against the Lions' bad defense (which he should have lit up IMO) at home.
 

Schultz

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Looking past his combined 10 completions on 23 attempts for 83 yards one interception (checks notes) ZERO touchdowns - in 3 consecutive 4th quarter year ending losses - lets look at his ability to bring a team from behind. When trailing by 10 points, Maholmes is 12 - 9 an almost insane 60% win percentage. Brady? 39/102, he leads his team to victory about 40% of the time after trailing by 10 Rodgers? 14 wins in 66 times trailing by 10 or more. About 20%. These stats dont include the Eagles or Bills games. Leadership matters. The ability to overcome adversity matters. If you want some on field eye rolling, on the bench pouting, and post game finger pointing - A-rod is your man. If you want a guy when the going is tough - not so much. Sorry - strip away the glitzy individual stats and MVPs - he’s not the guy you want come crunch time
How many times did AR tie or take the lead in those situations only to have his defense give up the winning score in either regulation or O.T. Until you can give me those numbers for the 3 guys mentioned your stat means absolutely nothing to me.
 

AKCheese

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How many times did AR tie or take the lead in those situations only to have his defense give up the winning score in either regulation or O.T. Until you can give me those numbers for the 3 guys mentioned your stat means absolutely nothing to me.
Brady wins 40% of the time, Rodgers 20% of the time - OVER THEIR CAREERS — those are facts. If you want to somehow justify that those facts dont really matter go reasearch the 150+ games involved but I believe a sample size that large gives a pretty clear picture.

Rodgers 4th quarter of 3 consecutive HOME “playoff” losses => 10 of 23 for 83 yards one pick ZERO touchdowns. You can “yeah but” all you want but you just sound silly… like the people who “yeah but” Brady’s 4th ring, or his 5th Ring, or his 6th Ring, then (checks notes)… oh yeah, his SEVENTH ring.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Brady wins 40% of the time, Rodgers 20% of the time - OVER THEIR CAREERS — those are facts. If you want to somehow justify that those facts dont really matter go reasearch the 150+ games involved but I believe a sample size that large gives a pretty clear picture.

Rodgers 4th quarter of 3 consecutive HOME “playoff” losses => 10 of 23 for 83 yards one pick ZERO touchdowns. You can “yeah but” all you want but you just sound silly… like the people who “yeah but” Brady’s 4th ring, or his 5th Ring, or his 6th Ring, then (checks notes)… oh yeah, his SEVENTH ring.

Football is a team game, not golf. That seems to be a FACT you have problems grasping.
 

AKCheese

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Football is a team game, not golf. That seems to be a FACT you have problems grasping.
Yet individuals are in the HOF. Great quarterbacks lead their teams to great victories in adverse conditions. A game here a game there you can quibble about. 20% vs 40% career? Thats a pattern. 10 of 23 for 83 one pick ZERO touchdowns in 3 fourth quarters COMBINED? To be honest that level of sustained underperformance suprised even me.
 

Cornelius Weems

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Yet individuals are in the HOF. Great quarterbacks lead their teams to great victories in adverse conditions. A game here a game there you can quibble about. 20% vs 40% career? Thats a pattern. 10 of 23 for 83 one pick ZERO touchdowns in 3 fourth quarters COMBINED? To be honest that level of sustained underperformance suprised even me.
The 20% win rate is astonishing, add the bad stats on top of that, and it's sickening. Some want to talk about him tying games, I have to question the logic. With no TDs, less than 50% completion rate, and only 83 yards (in 3 games a less than 28 yard per game average) how's he trying the score? Lately, this is a pattern. I might be willing to look past this year, but this is ongoing. In the big moments, he's supposed to shine, but based on the stats listed above, where's he shinning? I thought this thread was about QB play? I already stated in the fire JB thread multiple times he needs to be fired. To me, the QB play has not been good enough, not below average, but definitely not great. His contract (3 years for $150 mil) says he should be good to great, I never saw very much great play.
 
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The Broncos may have made inquiries but after back to back MVPs Gute wasn't going to make a deal with them or anyone else after the 2021 season.

I was replying to your post mentioning that you seriously doubt no general manager called Gutekunst about trading for Rodgers last season. I'm quite sure there were several who did though.

I don't think we would have put them in the no QB situation. The QB injuries were flukish, but in SF even with no QBs, we probably would have struggled (JB's defense is just that bad), they had the #1 overall defense in the NFL, and he struggled against the Lions' bad defense (which he should have lit up IMO) at home.

The Packers most likely wouldn't have put up 31 points against the Niners but I highly doubt the defense would have struggled to stop their offense that day. I agree that I would have fully expected each of the four teams to have reached the conference finals to beat the Packers as long as their starting QB would have stayed healthy though.

Rodgers 4th quarter of 3 consecutive HOME “playoff” losses => 10 of 23 for 83 yards one pick ZERO touchdowns. You can “yeah but” all you want but you just sound silly… like the people who “yeah but” Brady’s 4th ring, or his 5th Ring, or his 6th Ring, then (checks notes)… oh yeah, his SEVENTH ring.

You cherry pick stats to fit your narrative but it might be smart to compare Rodgers numbers in the fourth quarter and overtime of all playoff games to fairly evaluate their performance.

Surprisingly Rodgers has by far the better passer rating in those situations (103.3) than Brady (84.6). I'm well aware that won't change your opinion at all though.

Yet individuals are in the HOF.

Rodgers will be a first-ballot HOFer, so what's your point?

The 20% win rate is astonishing, add the bad stats on top of that, and it's sickening. Some want to talk about him tying games, I have to question the logic. With no TDs, less than 50% completion rate, and only 83 yards (in 3 games a less than 28 yard per game average) how's he trying the score? Lately, this is a pattern. I might be willing to look past this year, but this is ongoing. In the big moments, he's supposed to shine, but based on the stats listed above, where's he shinning? I thought this thread was about QB play? I already stated in the fire JB thread multiple times he needs to be fired. To me, the QB play has not been good enough, not below average, but definitely not great. His contract (3 years for $150 mil) says he should be good to great, I never saw very much great play.

Rodgers hasn't performed well in the fourth quarter of the last three season ending losses but in my opinion that's too small of a sample size to make any conclusions. As a side note, most quarterbacks don't put up impressive numbers in those scenarios in losses.
 

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I don't understand that question. It's pretty easy to figure out that the Chiefs ranked 7th (2019), 10th ('20) and 8th ('21) in points allowed respectively. This year they regressed, finishing in 16th.
Just to comment. The Chiefs' front four can take over a game at any time against any body.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Yet individuals are in the HOF. Great quarterbacks lead their teams to great victories in adverse conditions. A game here a game there you can quibble about. 20% vs 40% career? Thats a pattern. 10 of 23 for 83 one pick ZERO touchdowns in 3 fourth quarters COMBINED? To be honest that level of sustained underperformance suprised even me.

I get it. Aaron Roders kicked your puppy. Doesn't change the fact that SuperBowls are based on the team and not on one person. I'm sorry that you believe Trent Dilfer is better than Marino but maybe one day reality will set in.
 

tynimiller

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I get it. Aaron Roders kicked your puppy. Doesn't change the fact that SuperBowls are based on the team and not on one person. I'm sorry that you believe Trent Dilfer is better than Marino but maybe one day reality will set in.

Robert Horry > Lebron / MJ / Kareem / Magic / Kobe / Duncan/ Shaq

Just wanted to give an NBA example :)
 
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Do you mean..

Top wr...te....lb...dt could be paid if one player didn't account for a ig cap hit?
That and possibly more. Let’s just say a hypothetical Love starts and he’s good but not top 10.
He’s potentially making $24m over the next 2 seasons. Let’s just say he gets paid later 4X100m That’s a $20.6m average over 6 seasons. With inflation that’s comparative to $17m compared to $50.3m average

You replace a $50m average with $17m average and you’ve got an equivalent $33m yearly offset.
That’s 2 Stellar FA’s or 3-4 really good FA internal/external starters.
 
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Cornelius Weems

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Rodgers hasn't performed well in the fourth quarter of the last three season ending losses but in my opinion that's too small of a sample size to make any conclusions. As a side note, most quarterbacks don't put up impressive numbers in those scenarios in losses.
That's concerning, 3 years is too small a sample size? By that measure JB has not shown us what he has (I say fire his *** now) and honestly, I've seen enough. Also, he's not making "most QB" money, he's making "elite QB" money.
Robert Horry > Lebron / MJ / Kareem / Magic / Kobe / Duncan/ Shaq

Just wanted to give an NBA example :)
Yes, and we can show examples of NBA players who only one 1 title, or none, but that's another sport. Or we can talk about great NFL players that didn't win it all or only have one title, but this is about one man. He gave some me some great memories, but he's now 39. I remember when he got drafted, and ppl were angry, or how about when he was first starting and ppl were booing. He already said that he's not playing at the age of TB. I'm not convinced Love is the answer, but if this goes on much further, then we wasted everything the team gave up to draft him. We can argue about everything else, but our QB is not getting younger, and I think the future is bleak if we only look at the past.
 
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That and possibly more. Let’s just say a hypothetical Love starts and he’s good but not top 10.
He’s potentially making $24m over the next 2 seasons. Let’s just say he gets paid later 4X100m That’s a $20.6m average over 6 seasons. With inflation that’s comparative to $17m compared to $50.3m average

You replace a $50m average with $17m average and you’ve got an equivalent $33m yearly offset.
That’s 2 Stellar FA’s or 3-4 really good FA internal/external starters.

An NFL team benefits from having an elite quarterback compared to a good quarterback much more than from the players they could afford with the cap space saved.

That's concerning, 3 years is too small a sample size? By that measure JB has not shown us what he has (I say fire his *** now) and honestly, I've seen enough.

You aren't talking about three years but three cherry picked games though. A total of 24 pass attempts is a way too small sample size.
 

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