Is it time?

[Mondio]

That's concerning, 3 years is too small a sample size? By that measure JB has not shown us what he has (I say fire his *** now) and honestly, I've seen enough. Also, he's not making "most QB" money, he's making "elite QB" money.

Rodgers hasn't had 3 years of bad play though. It's really 3 games that are being talked about. If we were talking about the past 3 seasons, well you'd have 2 MVP's to deal with in trying to explain how bad he is. I think that would be a problem

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Rodgers hasn't had 3 years of bad play though. It's really 3 games that are being talked about. If we were talking about the past 3 seasons, well you'd have 2 MVP's to deal with in trying to explain how bad he is. I think that would be a problem

But it's 3 games where all the chips were on the line. Those 3 years are only looking at regular season play. Sure he has 2 MVPs, but what's that doing for the team? I can tell you what it isn't doing, winning in the playoffs, but this is getting off topic, the question is "is it time", referring to the '23-24 season. I don't see him winning in the post season at age 39. I hope that is clear, I don't want to come off as an *******. Again, this is how he has played for 3 years at the end of games and where the team may need you to step up the most (everyone else's play be d@mned, this thread is only about QB play) and he hasn't. We can go on about the defense, or special teams, but at age 39 I don't think he can produce in the playoffs any more.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

But it's 3 games where all the chips were on the line. Those 3 years are only looking at regular season play. Sure he has 2 MVPs, but what's that doing for the team? I can tell you what it isn't doing, winning in the playoffs, but this is getting off topic, the question is "is it time", referring to the '23-24 season. I don't see him winning in the post season at age 39. I hope that is clear, I don't want to come off as an *******. Again, this is how he has played for 3 years at the end of games and where the team may need you to step up the most (everyone else's play be d@mned, this thread is only about QB play) and he hasn't. We can go on about the defense, or special teams, but at age 39 I don't think he can produce in the playoffs any more.

Yup, he was just terrible against the Bucs in 2020; he only threw for 346 yards, 3 TDs, and one INT against one of the five best defenses in the NFL (missing his LT and his best RB for the second half). The SAME defense that held Mahomes to ZERO TDs and 2 INTs...people really need to get a grip....

 

[Mondio]

But it's 3 games where all the chips were on the line. Those 3 years are only looking at regular season play. Sure he has 2 MVPs, but what's that doing for the team? I can tell you what it isn't doing, winning in the playoffs, but this is getting off topic, the question is "is it time", referring to the '23-24 season. I don't see him winning in the post season at age 39. I hope that is clear, I don't want to come off as an *******. Again, this is how he has played for 3 years at the end of games and where the team may need you to step up the most (everyone else's play be d@mned, this thread is only about QB play) and he hasn't. We can go on about the defense, or special teams, but at age 39 I don't think he can produce in the playoffs any more.

I think he can produce but he's not going to carry the team. I still maintain that even the great QB's have 2-5 passes a game that just aren't good. They have 3-7 per game that only they'll make. then there's the rest that most won't notice the difference on but the greats tilt because they know the game, defenses, and some better ball placement but if the receiver isn't on the same page it won't look good.

I didn't see Rodgers much outside of that this year. I think he's still good enough to win with if you have parts around him. Even in this super bowl, Mahomes isn't there without kelce and take AJ brown off the Eagles and they aren't there either. Every game he catches at least 3 jump balls for huge plays and TD's. Who's that guy on our team? Other players do matter. Much of the year there were posts from others how we need Josh Allen, Rodgers can't do it anymore. Well, in his last game he was sub 60%, zero TD's and an INT for a 68 QB rating. Should the bills bail on him?

Moneywise, if we're getting out, we should have last year though it looked a lot different coming off an MVP year and returning the same team pretty much minus adams, but gaining back 3 all pro players so I can't blame them for not moving on. This year is about our cleanest out money wise and it's still going to hurt. It only hurts more in the future. So in that regard, yes, it is the best time to move on

But I don't think it's because he can't play anymore. He makes fewer big plays than he used to but he still does stuff in those games other QB's can't do. I'm not going to argue he's worth 50M bucks to do it, or whatever he's getting, but they gave it to him.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Yup, he was just terrible against the Bucs in 2020; he only threw for 346 yards, 3 TDs, and one INT against one of the five best defenses in the NFL (missing his LT and his best RB for the second half). The SAME defense that held Mahomes to ZERO TDs and 2 INTs...people really need to get a grip....

Okay again, you reference 2020, last I checked it isn't 2020 anymore. Don't bother responding if the only response given is to a small part of what I said. I'll give it to Mondio, that was a well put together response. This is just cherry picking what you want to respond to. NO part of what I said means his past achievements are meaningless, but he isn't doing those things for us now, or the previous season. I stand by what I said, now is the time.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Okay again, you reference 2020, last I checked it isn't 2020 anymore. Don't bother responding if the only response given is to a small part of what I said. I'll give it to Mondio, that was a well put together response. This is just cherry picking what you want to respond to. NO part of what I said means his past achievements are meaningless, but he isn't doing those things for us now, or the previous season. I stand by what I said, now is the time.

Nope, you just said last three playoffs…2020 was part of that. Stop moving your goal posts

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Nope, you just said last three playoffs…2020 was part of that. Stop moving your goal posts

Um, I said "the last 3 games where the chips were on the line", not just playoffs. That's what you quoted. I didn't say playoff games, I said games.

 

[tynimiller]

Um, I said "the last 3 games where the chips were on the line", not just playoffs. That's what you quoted. I didn't say playoff games, I said games.

So technically that would be the last three games of the 2022 season cuz we had to mathematically win out...Rodgers and his team went 2-1 in those.

FTR I'm of the let Rodgers walk mindset, so this isn't a pluck at anyone or trying to troll, just stating what it was.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

So technically that would be the last three games of the 2022 season cuz we had to mathematically win out...Rodgers and his team went 2-1 in those.

FTR I'm of the let Rodgers walk mindset, so this isn't a pluck at anyone or trying to troll, just stating what it was.

Ok, LoL, I'll give you that. I was thinking about the last three seasons. I'll admit my mistake there.

 

[OldSchool101]

An NFL team benefits from having an elite quarterback compared to a good quarterback much more than from the players they could afford with the cap space saved.

First of all that’s very debatable.

My first argument is this.. Fo the Packers have an elite QB? Yes
Now how has that worked out thus far? The only time the Packers have even so much as made it to a Super Bowl was on the heels of one of, if not the best Defense in the league.
13 seasons ago!!!!!
If what you said was true, the results of a pretty large sample size lies before us. 15 seasons and 1 Super Bowl. That’s not compelling evidence that Rodgers is our only answer or even that what we’re doing is working for that matter.

Secondly, Aaron Rodgers money didn’t even break the top 20 highest paid QB’s leaguewide in 2010. If we want to look at success we have to look at what got us there. The last time we got success our QB was nowhere close to league leading. So this concept that paying league high $ equates to success is just not true. If we didn’t have all this contractual suicide we’d have $3.3m tied up at QB. I suppose you’ll tell me $47m yearly doesn’t matter?

This doesn’t even account for the fact our QB is soon to be 40yrs old, he just had a below average season and played like Poop against a mediocre Lions Defense. If Jordan Love was throwing all those INT, would you defend him? I’m 100% sure you would’ve criticized him out of the league.

We live in a what have you done lately world and yes, that includes football. They say you get what you pay for, we sure didn’t get that at QB in 2022! Let’s wash this fiscal nightmare and load up on young talent and be competitive for the next 15 seasons. We can be playoff competitive inside 2-3 seasons with a positive outlook.

 

[tynimiller]

First of all that’s very debatable.


15 seasons and 1 Super Bowl, not even a 2nd appearance. That’s not compelling evidence that Rodgers is our only answer.

Add in Favre years as well....

In that whole time frame who were the winning QBs...and better yet not just by name but were they elite those years?

Example the Broncos SB with Manning, he was not CLOSE to elite at that point in his career.

 

[pacmaniac]

You cherry pick stats to fit your narrative but it might be smart to compare Rodgers numbers in the fourth quarter and overtime of all playoff games to fairly evaluate their performance.

Surprisingly Rodgers has by far the better passer rating in those situations (103.3) than Brady (84.6). I'm well aware that won't change your opinion at all though.

It wouldn't make sense to do that if he's trying to say that Rodgers is on the decline. Obviously Rodgers played a lot better in the 4th quarter of playoff games during his prime.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

It wouldn't make sense to do that if he's trying to say that Rodgers is on the decline. Obviously Rodgers played a lot better in the 4th quarter of playoff games during his prime.

That's exactly what I'm saying, I'm only talking about what he's done recently. It would be foolish to look at him in his prime and think, there were better options. I'm only talking about the performance by him lately. At 39 we can't play the wait and see game. Some may only want to see the past, and think that's repeatable at 39, my decades of fandom makes me realize that every player goes at some point. The 70's and 80's for instance, were some rough decades.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Um, I said "the last 3 games where the chips were on the line", not just playoffs. That's what you quoted. I didn't say playoff games, I said games.

Ok, LoL, I'll give you that. I was thinking about the last three seasons. I'll admit my mistake there.

So then it was the 2020 playoffs? I'm really confused by your somewhat fluid contention.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

So then it was the 2020 playoffs? I'm really confused by your somewhat fluid contention.

??? Others weren't confused by what I said. I'm not going to clarify it any further. I'm confused as to why you quoted my response to someone else's post. That post was only a response to that post. Maybe #588 will clarify some things, if not, IDC anymore.

 

[OldSchool101]

Add in Favre years as well....

In that whole time frame who were the winning QBs...and better yet not just by name but were they elite those years?

Example the Broncos SB with Manning, he was not CLOSE to elite at that point in his career.

True. It’s kept us competitive that’s very arguable. But just missing the SB is putting us at the tail of every draft.
I’d offer that having a few high draft picks and washing the $40m will do us wonders and very possibly could even have us playoff bound inside 2 seasons. The common argument is one of fear about Jordan. Yet it’s immaterial because it doesn’t even need to be Jordan he’s just 1 scenario.

Next season, if we feel Jordan isn’t our guy? Trade 2 Day 1 selections and get whoever you want from the 2024 draft class at QB. In that scenario it would infer that we’d already have a top 12 type (or better) selection in the 2024 draft. We’d still have plenty of draft power (which I know you like) even After drafting the best college QB in 2024.
If Jordan DOES pan out? Lights out. You’ve got multiple Day 1 and Day 2 selections over 2 drafts AND let’s face it, Jordan is NOT going to cost League high $$ averaged over the next 4-5 seasons.

Now You are a draft aficionado. If I told you I’d give you a Day 1 and Round 2 selection this season bonus. Plus you get 1st or 2nd choice of QB in 2024? Could you find us someone Good or not??
Caleb Williams
Bo Nix
Michael Penix
Drake Maye
Quinn Ewers

Take your pick in 2024. What are we so worried about.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

??? Others weren't confused by what I said. I'm not going to clarify it any further. I'm confused as to why you quoted my response to someone else's post. That post was only a response to that post. Maybe #588 will clarify some things, if not, IDC anymore.

You said past three seasons…so, which game in 2020 were you referring to?

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Now You are a draft aficionado. If I told you I’d give you a Day 1 and Round 2 selection this season bonus. Plus you get 1st or 2nd choice of QB in 2024? Could you find us someone Good or not??
Caleb Williams
Bo Nix
Michael Penix
Drake Maye
Quinn Ewers

Take your pick in 2024. What are we so worried about.

Good question as most that list was inconsistent, to borderline very inconsistent. I'd choose Caleb Williams as he looked to be the most consistent one. If Love plays bad, then he might be the best option out of that list.

 

[AKCheese]

Yup, he was just terrible against the Bucs in 2020; he only threw for 346 yards, 3 TDs, and one INT against one of the five best defenses in the NFL (missing his LT and his best RB for the second half). The SAME defense that held Mahomes to ZERO TDs and 2 INTs...people really need to get a grip....

4th quarter against the Bucs (who if I remember correctly were missing 2 or 3 starting defensive backs at this point?) 4 of 11 on three posessions and he took at least 2 BIG sacks…. 4 of 11 for 54 yards…. WOW… impressive

 

[Sunshinepacker]

4th quarter against the Bucs (who if I remember correctly were missing 2 or 3 starting defensive backs at this point?) 4 of 11 on three posessions and he took at least 2 BIG sacks…. 4 of 11 for 54 yards…. WOW… impressive

25% of the game…what’s truly impressive is your ability to ignore the vast, VAST majority of the game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Rodgers hasn't had 3 years of bad play though. It's really 3 games that are being talked about. If we were talking about the past 3 seasons, well you'd have 2 MVP's to deal with in trying to explain how bad he is. I think that would be a problem

Actually they're only taking about three quarters of three games to come up with their conclusion.

But it's 3 games where all the chips were on the line. Those 3 years are only looking at regular season play. Sure he has 2 MVPs, but what's that doing for the team? I can tell you what it isn't doing, winning in the playoffs, but this is getting off topic, the question is "is it time", referring to the '23-24 season. I don't see him winning in the post season at age 39. I hope that is clear, I don't want to come off as an *******. Again, this is how he has played for 3 years at the end of games and where the team may need you to step up the most (everyone else's play be d@mned, this thread is only about QB play) and he hasn't. We can go on about the defense, or special teams, but at age 39 I don't think he can produce in the playoffs any more.

Since winning the Super Bowl back in 2019 Mahomes is 17-of-30 (56.7% completion percentage) for 194 yards, zero touchdowns and two interceptions for a passer rating of 48.5 in the fourth quarter of playoff losses. Should the Chiefs move on from him because of it???

My first argument is this.. Fo the Packers have an elite QB? Yes
Now how has that worked out thus far? The only time the Packers have even so much as made it to a Super Bowl was on the heels of one of, if not the best Defense in the league.
13 seasons ago!!!!!
If what you said was true, the results of a pretty large sample size lies before us. 15 seasons and 1 Super Bowl. That’s not compelling evidence that Rodgers is our only answer or even that what we’re doing is working for that matter.

I didn't suggest it's impossible for a team to win the Super Bowl without having an elite quarterback. But having one is more important than the cap space being saved over featuring an average replacement.

So this concept that paying league high $ equates to success is just not true.

That's not what I said at all. But, having an elite quarterback will result in having to pay him accordingly once his rookie deal expires. There's no way around it. Teams actually benefit the most of having a very good QB playing on a rookie deal, another reason why drafting Love back in 2020 was a perplexing move.

This doesn’t even account for the fact our QB is soon to be 40yrs old, he just had a below average season and played like Poop against a mediocre Lions Defense. If Jordan Love was throwing all those INT, would you defend him? I’m 100% sure you would’ve criticized him out of the league.

Ok, please take a look at the game deciding interception vs. the Lions for once. Focus on AJ Dillon. After you've done that please tell me who was truly responsible for it.

We live in a what have you done lately world and yes, that includes football. They say you get what you pay for, we sure didn’t get that at QB in 2022! Let’s wash this fiscal nightmare and load up on young talent and be competitive for the next 15 seasons. We can be playoff competitive inside 2-3 seasons with a positive outlook.

Once again, with the way Rodgers contract is structured I agree it's most likely best to move on this offseason. It's entirely possible that it will take the Packers way more time than two or three years to be a legit contender again though.

It wouldn't make sense to do that if he's trying to say that Rodgers is on the decline.

It would be smart to be interested in the truth instead of cherry picking stuff to fit his narrative though.

??? Others weren't confused by what I said. I'm not going to clarify it any further. I'm confused as to why you quoted my response to someone else's post. That post was only a response to that post. Maybe #588 will clarify some things, if not, IDC anymore.

You were talking about Rodgers performance in the fourth quarter of his last three season ending losses. The 2020 loss to the Bucs is one of those games.

4th quarter against the Bucs (who if I remember correctly were missing 2 or 3 starting defensive backs at this point?)

Now you're just making stuff up to support your claim. Jordan Whitehead was the only player of their secondary who didn't play as many snaps as on average that season but I don't remember if that was because of injury.

4 of 11 on three posessions and he took at least 2 BIG sacks…. 4 of 11 for 54 yards…. WOW… impressive

Mahomes struggled against the Bucs defense all game long, completing only 53% of his passes and didn't throw a touchdown but two interceptions. You might just have to accept that their defense was dominant during the playoffs that year.

 

[Jayzee1981]

MVS saying thanks Packers for not signing me lol!

 

[AKCheese]

25% of the game…what’s truly impressive is your ability to ignore the vast, VAST majority of the game.

You don’t ever hear too many people raving about a guy being a “great first quarter QB”

 

[AKCheese]

Actually they're only taking about three quarters of three games to come up with their conclusion.



Since winning the Super Bowl back in 2019 Mahomes is 17-of-30 (56.7% completion percentage) for 194 yards, zero touchdowns and two interceptions for a passer rating of 48.5 in the fourth quarter of playoff losses. Should the Chiefs move on from him because of it???



I didn't suggest it's impossible for a team to win the Super Bowl without having an elite quarterback. But having one is more important than the cap space being saved over featuring an average replacement.



That's not what I said at all. But, having an elite quarterback will result in having to pay him accordingly once his rookie deal expires. There's no way around it. Teams actually benefit the most of having a very good QB playing on a rookie deal, another reason why drafting Love back in 2020 was a perplexing move.



Ok, please take a look at the game deciding interception vs. the Lions for once. Focus on AJ Dillon. After you've done that please tell me who was truly responsible for it.



Once again, with the way Rodgers contract is structured I agree it's most likely best to move on this offseason. It's entirely possible that it will take the Packers way more time than two or three years to be a legit contender again though.



It would be smart to be interested in the truth instead of cherry picking stuff to fit his narrative though.



You were talking about Rodgers performance in the fourth quarter of his last three season ending losses. The 2020 loss to the Bucs is one of those games.



Now you're just making stuff up to support your claim. Jordan Whitehead was the only player of their secondary who didn't play as many snaps as on average that season but I don't remember if that was because of injury.



Mahomes struggled against the Bucs defense all game long, completing only 53% of his passes and didn't throw a touchdown but two interceptions. You might just have to accept that their defense was dominant during the playoffs that year.

I’m sure you can also come up with excuses for his chokes in the 4th quarter against SF and Detroit in successive years. In the Army we used to say, “ maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters”

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I know this is a little off topic, but KC's QB just threw 3 TDs in the 2nd half (on a re-injured ankle), what the heck is our problem? 2 SB wins in the past 4 years, and the best comeback we can muster is the MVP's? PM now has 2 MVP's, 2SB MVP's, and now 2 SB's. We can talk about supporting cast, but this is a thread about our QB. I love AR, but IMO, his time has passed. I'm tired of watching other QBs playing in the SB, and the best we can say is, "we'll be there next year", or "look at the MVP's. We're the GBP ******, we won the first 2 SB's, I say it's time for another one, or two, or three...