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I don't understand this "lockout" talk

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Forget Favre, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. NFLLockout

    NFLLockout Cheesehead

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    Hey All -
    I'm actually here with the NFLPA and I was just reading through this thread. I think we can all agree that we NEED to have an NFL football season next year. If you would like to have your voice heard, take a moment and sign the petition over at NFLLockout.com and help block the lockout!

    I also know you have plenty of questions, so feel free to PM me or post here anything that you want answered regarding this situation.
     
  2. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Umm, ok. Other than making our opinion known (I'd argue it already is), how is a fan-signed petition supposed to help prevent a lockout exactly?
     
  3. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

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    Charitable Donations to the NFL? LOL:comando:
     
  4. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'm trying very hard to not think of this, the very thought of no football for a year is almost more than my sports soul can take. I understand people need to do what they need to do, I just want the best outcome for all. But hopefully it won't come to this!
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    They gotta feed the kids
     
  6. GreenGoldAngel

    GreenGoldAngel Banned Banned

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    In the team's latest financial report, a preview of which was released to the media this week, the Packers' operating profit for the 2010 fiscal year (ending March 31, 2010), was $9.8 million, down from $20.1 million the year prior. The primary reason for the decline, despite a $10.1 million increase in overall revenue, was a $22.1 million jump in player costs, which increased 15.9 percent from $138.7 million to $160.8 million. It marked the third consecutive year that operating profits declined, from $34.2 million (2007) to $21.4 million (2008) to $20.1 million (2009) to $9.8 million (2010).


    [​IMG]Jeff Hanisch/US PresswireAaron Rodgers and the Packers were the latest team that voted to decertify the NFLPA in the event that the union and the NFL can't reach an agreement on a new collective bargaining agreement. 10Share

    7 Comments




    GREEN BAY, Wis. -- NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith sees new signs that owners are preparing for a football-free 2011.
    With support from Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, he asked fans to take the players' side.
    Speaking at a tailgate-style fan luncheon a few blocks from Lambeau Field on Tuesday, Smith referred to a recent Sports Business Journal report that said the NFL is requiring banks that lend money to its teams to extend grace periods for loan defaults through the end of the 2011 season in the event of a lockout.
    "That to me is a step where the owners are protecting themselves in the event that there is no season," Smith said.
    Smith said that move, along with provisions in television deals that provide for some payments even if there is a lockout, are evidence that owners are planning for the possibility that there won't be a season in 2011.
    NFL spokesman Greg Aiello noted that the players are going through the ​
     
  7. Incubes12

    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    I find it very hard to side with the players on this. Maybe they just aren't doing a good job of making their case. The way I see it, players costs should rise in proportion to profit increases. It doesn't seem fair to the owners any other way. I don't think theres a single one of us the would argue the players aren't making enough money.
     
  8. Packerfury

    Packerfury Cheesehead

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    It's the owners fault mostly. In the last CBA, they let the players have too much. But you guys don't understand, players get screwed really really hard after they retire. And you have to realize the majority of players aren't starters. They aren't those guys like peyton manning who make ten mil+ a year. Players risk their body and get no compensation for it. You would think if you get hurt on the job, that your employer would pay for it. workmen's comp right? Not so in the nfl, there are many retired nfl players who are in dire need of surgery due to their body's constant beating after they retire, and the NFL WON'T pay for it. Not to mention a lot of even the high profile guys aren't making all the money they are supposed to. Teams load the back end of players' salaries and renegotiate or drop the player before they get paid causing the players to not see their money. Retirement really really sucks as well. I don't know the exact term, but they don't get much when they retire. But at the same time players get (I believe) 60% of the teams annual imcome. That is a ton of money and probably is a little too much! But it's what the owners agreed to in the last cba. Think of it this way, if you were working at your job and your boss came up to you and said, hey I want you to do the same job next year, but for less money, how would you take it? Not well, I know I wouldn't. Oh, and one more thing the nflpa wants to get established is the rookie salary cap. That alone would solve quite a bit of problems. A top 5 pick is a lot of money. Money that could be spread around to players who've been around and who deserve it.
     
  9. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    I think there is plenty of blame to fall all around. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who makes $360,000 a year, then complains he has nothing to live on after he retires. A lot of people have to live on $36,000 a year and they get by. I also have a hard time feeling sorry for owners who build multi-million dollar complexes then cry they don't have enough money. Then there are the fans. The players and owners wouldn't be fighting over all this money if the fans refused to keep paying it. As long as we keep shelling out, they see no need to tighten the belt. It amazes me how much money people are putting into this form of entertainment in an economy where unemployment is just short of 10 per cent. We are feeding the monster at our own expense. We scrape by to shovel money into these fat cats. Sorry for the rant.
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    the players screw themselves by not investing well and generally not making good decisions. 6 kids? not smart. 8 cars? not smart. 3 houses and lavish dinners? not smart. hitting the clubs in the off season in a contract year? really not smart.

    Do I feel bad for some of the players that played before the $ was good? sure. but anything after 1990 I sure dont.

    How about we lower ticket prices and player salaries? Its a recession so maybe the nfl should act like it. Not all franchises have as much fan support as the Packers. It makes no sense for the lions to ask for $80 a ticket. Detroit is a dying city and raising ticket prices on them is just bad for the league as a whole.
     
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    NFL should make teams pay for their own stadiums
     
  12. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    Ivo; My wife and I raised 6 kids on $40,000 a year. Sure things were tight at times, but you make wise choices and you can live O.K. I think the players and owners choose to have lavish lifestyles, so the money is never enough.
     
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  13. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I wonder why the NFL or individual teams/ organizations don't set up retirement plans and benefits for their players such as IRA or 401K. If you don't set up for retirement now or at least start to, you won't have much of anything to live on when you are no longer working. If I were owner, I'd make damn sure my players/ employees if you will, were taken care of beyond their services on my team even if they retired due to injury. They would be taken care of. To me, they are family, and I'd never let that happen. Some of these guys, as Croak pointed out, are just not smart with their investments. Maybe they just never had anybody just sit down and teach them how to plan for their future so they are very much living in the moment. Maybe they just get caught up in the lifestyle, because right now they can do it. I would think it a good idea for teams to make sure they have financial advisers or something to that effect to make sure they are investing wisely.

    There is a way to deal with this, it just has to be done within the financial means of the league and so the players don't feel they are being screwed.
     
  14. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    I believe the Packers actually have a staff member (former player?) whose role is to help players manage their finances, investments and preparation for the future. If you are paying someone over 300 grand a year, they have the money to set up their own 401K or IRA. They just need a financial "coach" so to speak.

    As for the former players, Yes I agree something should be set up to help them. Johnny U had his own office near here in Baltimore, but I remember how crippled up he seemed in his later years. Perhaps the NFL should use all the fine money they are collecting to put into a fund for retired players. Shucks they got over $100,000 from Harrison alone already! :)
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    As much flak that al Davis gets, I have heard he sets up a retirement fund for ALL players he has or had
     
  16. aaronqb

    aaronqb Cheesehead

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    we want football
     
  17. Packerfury

    Packerfury Cheesehead

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    Really guys? Really? You guys have no idea. Anyone know the average lifespan of a player in the nfl? 55. 52 for a lineman. The average lifespan of americans in general is 77.6. NFL players are literally giving up 20 years of their life. And if they add 2 more games, logic points to them lsoing even more years. If I knew I was losing more than 20 years of my life, I'd better get paid well. They don't do as well as you think.

    The average salary in the US is 48000(68000 with a bachelors). I'm going to say we work for 45 years. I don't know the average, but 22-67 sounds about right to me. That means in our lifetime if we work to retirement, we make 2.16 mil(3.06 with bachelors). The average nfl player plays for just over 3 years. The average nfl salary is 770,000(440,000 if you a packer. lowest in the nfl) That means if they work til retirement they make 2.31 million(1.32 if your a packer). Many of you will say that well they can get another job and make more. Do you want to work after you retire? I don't. And if were smart with our money and make good decisions, we probably won't have to. And they only living to 55? I'd want to enjoy my remaining years. We will probably all live to see 60. They probably won't.

    I'm not asking you guys to feel bad for Brady, Manning, Ray Lewis, and all of the other stars. I'm asking you to look at the average nfl player and realize that the system is very very flawed and treats the AVERAGE nfl player poorly.

    Just because you don't want a lockout, don't simply jump on the owner bandwagon and point the finger at those "greedy players." The average nfl team last year still grossed about 10 million dollars. The owners aren't exactly scraping by living out of a shoebox either.

    I'm not saying it's all the owners fault, but there are compromises to be made on both sides. There will probably be a lockout, and that's just reality.
     
  18. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    First of all if I knew my vocation gave me a short life span I wouldn't CHOOSE that vocation. It's a choice they made. Part of the reason their life span is so short is that they are so fat. Johnny U lived to be 70, Bart Starr is still alive, Dave Robinson, Boyd Dowler, etc. They can have some control over their life span. But lets also face it, no one knows how long they will live. I was just at a funeral of a lady who was 53 years old. 4 months ago she seemed in tip top shape. Now she's dead of a fast growing cancer. None of have a guarantee of a long life.

    Your average American income is an oft quoted statistic. What isn't quoted is that the figure is skewed by the number of Billionaires in America. Drop them out of the equation and the average income drops considerably. It's like when your teachers used to grade on curve. At 1 million dollars I could life comfortably for the next 30 years at the salary I am currently making (with post graduate education). It's about management and choices. These players today, like many young Americans think they are entitled to the high life. I don't have sympathy for them nor the owners.
     
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  19. aaronqb

    aaronqb Cheesehead

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    we want football
     
  20. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I would think if the players are willing to unite and sit a year from a game they love, then it must be something pretty darn important to them. Something that is worth keeping off the football field. When it's progressed to this level, I take them seriously. It's not something like Moss hatin on the food, hates the place, LOL.

    I don't know about you but the very thought of Lambeau Field sitting empty, covered in snow, eerie and silent, with nobody to play in it renders my soul sadder than you can ever know. Football to me is akin to passion, it pulsates like life within me. I just hope this is all worth it, they wouldn't be doing all this if it wasn't worth that much. That's what scares me the most. The idea of a deadlock. Somebody is gonna have to yield at some point but how time shall pass until then?
     
  21. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    ^^^THIS^^^

    Players CHOOSE to play football for a living. They aren't forced. They aren't committing some noble act of charity or heroism. They chose their profession, knowing full well of the risks involved.

    I have a hard time feeling sorry for players who choose not to invest their money properly. Instead of squandering their money on multiple expensive cars, jewelery, mansions, etc., why not invest it into something that will actually provide a return? Not sure how? Seek financial advice. I know it's not the sexy thing to do, but it is the smart thing to do.
     
  22. aaronqb

    aaronqb Cheesehead

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    retired
     
  23. Incubes12

    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    Then why not even out the salaries a bit. It's DEFINITELY not a problem of the owners not paying enough money. It's the fact that the Albert Haynesworths of the NFL are taking all the money.

    Also, keep in mind the players choose to do this. What's the minimum salary? 250k? That still seems like a lot of compensation.
     
  24. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Something else to consider- Players aren't on the hook for things like new stadiums, creating alternate forms of revenues, stadium expansions, things like that. New stadiums, remodels and expansions result in cost increases that players don't have to help pay for. Asking the players to take a bit of a cut now will help the owners pay for those things which in turn will help players increase their salaries over a period of time.

    Someone projected that the NFL minimum would be a little above $250k a year for someone who makes it onto the 53 man team. We're talking players that maybe are involved in only a handful of plays per game, largely special teamers, would still be making $250k/year.

    Tell you what, if they don't like it, I'll happily trade places with them.
     
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  25. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Thank you very much aaron qb for explaining some details on what the lockout means and providing links that explain it.

    I don't blame players or owners in all of this.
    I blame capitalism and greed.

    Think about it.
    Everyone could get along just fine without as much money.
    Treat each players salary as others in the working world.
    Have a set starting amount for each and every player (300-450k) that increases with time and has bonuses based on performance and how far the team goes that year. (Are the Yikes! really getting their $ worth this year with Burnt Fail? They did more so last year.)
    Players and owners would have to learn to live within their means.
    There could still be some lavish spending (One new Lexus instead of 10. A very nice house instead of a mansion. Etc etc.)
    Sell tix at $10-$30 per game.
    Reduce merchandise prices.
    Etc.
    That would be nice but it ain't gonna happen because of capitalism and greed.
     

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