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He Chose Bart over Aaron and Brett...

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by tynimiller, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  2. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    I think it is great that Driver shows a knowledge of the history. Starr definitely had nerves of steel. And he could throw the ball very well. And in the clutch. I realize Donald was also being diplomatic. Not to say Starr isn't in the discussion. Great answer!
     
  3. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I really hate these comparisons across eras. What makes a good quarterback has changed too much to make it anything approaching fair.

    Starr played in an era with fewer substitutions, but most (all?) quarterbacks called their own plays. We didn't have radios in the helmet yet. They were closer to true "field generals" in this sense. Smart player, knew how to run the offense to a T. Very much Payton Manning's Brain.

    But Starr was physically limited. You drop him into an offense from the 1990s on and he will get exposed. I don't think he could throw the deep out. It'd be an interception waiting to happen. Much much Payton Manning's Corpse from 2015.

    As far as talent and physical ability, Starr is probably the 4th or 5th best Packers quarterback I can think of. Rodgers and Favre obviously, but Dickey as well. Perhaps tied with the Magic Man?
     
  4. Poppa San

    Poppa San Levelheaded Staff Member Super Moderator Moderator

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    I typically try to compare them to their peers. Knowing that Nitschke, Nagurski, and Butkus never weight trained, trained year round, nor had the supplements todays athletes have. They would have if they played now so their stature at the top would have crossed eras.
     
  5. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I think that where Starr always won (literally) was in his ability to win games - that intangible *it* factor that separates winners from losers. Doug Flutie lacked all of the pure QB skills but the could play and win --- no, I'm not really comparing Starr to Flutie. Starr definitely did not have Rodgers' or Favre's arm but he could will the team to victory, something that the two younger bucks have struggled with in the big games.
     
  6. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Even this is tricky. They very well might have. It's also possible some of their lesser contemporaries would thrive more in such a world.

    Offensive linemen are the biggest example to me. Pre 1975 (I think that's the year) offensive linemen could not use their hands to block, period. Hands come up, holding flag came out.

    In a world where linemen can use their hands, suddenly hand strength, arm length, ability to delivery a punch accurately, etc, go from 0 to super important. Particularly at tackle. Pure hypothetical, but it's possible that tackle Forrest Gregg, whom Lombardi considered the best football player he ever coached, becomes a marginal starter or is forced to kick in at guard in a pass centric league. We have no idea how good his hands are/were for such a role.
     
  7. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    It is also true that defensive ends could wack the O Linemen in the head. ALA Deacon Jones
     
  8. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Very much so.

    It gets similarly weird at running back.

    Jim Taylor would be a halfback in a modern offense. Not that he couldn't block, but in Lombardi's offense (and others) the fullback got the majority of the carries between the tackles. Just a position name change, but that's all. Possibly some minor questions if he'd be a 3-down back now (is he fast enough for the occasional toss/sweep? Can he pass block? Can he catch?), but he'd probably slide right in.

    Paul Hornung as a triple threat halfback is harder to project to the modern offense--the position doesn't really exist anymore. He had blocking assignments when Taylor was doing the grunt work inside, so he's not a dainty little flower. But HBs of the era were smaller, speed players that ran routes, took pitch plays, and occasionally turned those toss plays into HB option plays (ergo 'triple threat.) If you insist on keeping him as a modern HB, he'd likely be a part time, 3rd down back.

    The best use of him might be in the Shannahan/LeFleur offense as a better Swervin' Ervin. He'd be a legitimate thread to take jet motion and was a decent receiver. Anyone got time machine?
     
  9. weeds

    weeds Fiber deprived old guy.

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    Bart Starr won 5 NFL Championships in 7 years. THAT is the standard and all the other noise about generational differences in who played the game and when they played... is mental manure.

    There is no G.O.A.T. Period ... plain and simple. Just a bunch of journalists, fans and talking heads who like to hear themselves talk.
     
  10. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I mean, Bart Starr sure did block well for Starr when he was throwing passes to Starr. And handing off to Starr. I never saw anyone turn the corner on the Lombardi sweep quite as well as when Starr did it.

    Wins are a team stat.
     
  11. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

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    I have the 15 throwback jersey from 1969...

    put em in categories:

    Most athletic - the Majik man

    Most immobile big arm - gotta give it to Dickey

    Most accurate - rodgers...not a close one

    Most Gutsy - Favre

    Most successful - Bart...not a close one either
     

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