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For those of you expecting a quiet offseason...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TOPackerFan, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    No Bates was fired/resigned depending on which article you read. If I had to choose between Sanders and Bates being DC last year, I'd chose Bates in the blink of an eye.

    The problem is that I think McCarthy has identified the eventual successor to Sanders: Winston Moss.

    So I don't think he'll be looking for someone new as a DC, he'll persist with Sanders, and when the time comes that a change is needed, perhaps next year if our D doesn't improve, then Moss will be the guy.

    I do think McCarthy will be evaluating Sanders work, and may decide to keep him on a short leash for 2008.
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    As for the article TO, it was a good read.

    I was intrigued when I read the title on the Packers Insider list, and having read it I agree with the points that McGinn makes.

    Especially the one about our running scheme, and how McCarthy seemingly abandons the run anytime the game is on the line near the end of the game.
     
  3. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    The running game was a big bone of contention with me in that game. Sure we weren't getting anywhere, but 3rd and 6 is a lot better than 3rd and 10 and if you keep handing Grant the ball, you have a chance of breaking one or two runs (like he did in the third and fourth quarter).

    McCarthy is a good coach, but he's inexperienced. I think he's really learned from this game. I just hope that he has a chance to show that he's learned from it soon.
     
  4. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I think our defense is just too predictable. Teams KNOW they're going to be getting bump and run. It just seems to me that really good coaches, like Belichick (cheater or not) and Dungy would really be able to pick us apart. Just like the giants did.

    Something definitely needs to be done.
     
  5. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I guess all it took was one playoff loss for many people to decide that our defensive scheme is obsolete. Has the league really changed THAT much in the few years since Jim Bates used this scheme in Miami and had one of the best defenses in the league, year-in and year-out?

    Also, it took just one week after the playoff loss to decide that our players suck (especially Favre and Harris, nevermind that they are the keystones of the offense and defense) and so does our coaching staff. I guess Ted should just tear the whole thing apart and start over.

    Seriously: Patience, people, patience!
     
  6. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    More on the defense, for most of the year we were playing again with works in progress at the safety position and we have dedicated to play a physical style on the perimeter. When doing that, you are going to have matchup where we get beat, only a few times this year we got beat. Granted one was in the postseason, but 14 to 15 times we won that battle.

    Run defense, we are fine, even in the Giants game, they controlled the ball on third and longs, so they could pound it 37 times at the defensive front. We have a good scheme and solid personnel up front, maybe better coverage at the SAM, but other than that we were stout all season long.

    The biggest thing is we need to adjust out of the press game when we are getting beat, so I would focus on changing up the coverage and successfully drop into a zone once and a while. Maybe hide the coverage a bit more, but again, we have to have complete confidence in the deep players to drop into those types of things. If the safeties make a mistake in zone.. they will take the play to the house.

    Great post Greg... more knee jerk reactions to a solid football team. A player or two here or there and confidence in a couple key areas and we will be dominate.
     
  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    It may be a quick reaction, but I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction. We had problems in Dallas and against the Boys. We talk about how the Giants made our offense one-dimensional, and how that killed us. Fact of the matter is, our defense is also one-dimensional. We had two big games that we lost because of this fact.
     
  8. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Bozz.. define your description of one dimensional? Are you implying that because we play press and man to man for the most part?
     
  9. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    sort of... It's that we play press, man on, and that we can't play anything but that. is it because our players aren't capable of effectively playing zone? is it because our coaches aren't capable of implementing it? Don't know. All I know is that we only got burned in man on coverage in two games. Dallas and NY Giants. Adjustments needed to be made to compensate for one player or the other, and they were not made. Our bump and run worked well most of the season, but we need some other scheme that we can reliably fall back upon if our bread and butter isn't working.

    For me, that means addressing it with our DC and defensive coaches, assessing whether or not they are capable of making this change for next season, and working with them if it is determined that they are able to implement this change, or parting ways with them if they cannot. Call it impetuosity, but I have been waiting for a couple years for this defense to reach their potential, and i don't think they have. I think that falls on the shoulders of our DC. it is now the off-season, which, for an NFL coach, means the time of reckoning. Time for TT and MM to decide whether our defensive coaching staff can get the job done.
     
  10. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    What do both of those teams have, a big physical wideout that cold hand fight with our DB's or Harris to be specific. I will agree that is was a coaching gaff more so to not adjusting to it quicker or in the Giants game at all. I am guess they were scared to drop into the zone and leave big openings and big gains happen. But watch the tape, Harris tried to play inside, outside, and even under.. it was a bad matchup for Harris for sure.

    But I put that more on lack of confidence in the safety play than anything else, we were happier than pigs in slop to play these young players and take our lumps earlier in the year. Guess what, those lumps are going to be there when you have little to no experience the center of the field. At least big game experience.

    The biggest thing on Burress is the they should have dropped a second player on him, let Harris take either the under or behind coverage and drop a Backer or extra DB on the opposite.

    Another point, watch the Colts or Tampa play.. it is the same coverage time and time again.. cover two.. they get beat at times in coverage everyone does.

    But again, I will agree that we should have dropped into a different package in the Giants game. Don't forget that Sanders was only in his second year as well. I will say it again, go young expect some bumps in the road and learning experiences. Oh and go back and look at the 95 defense for example.. we got torched in Dallas in the postseason after a solid season.. kept the same defense and won the crown. Patience.
     
  11. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    I would like to see more LB'er blitzes to get to the QB...

    It seemed like we did it earlier, but had totally gone away from it at the end of the year..!
     
  12. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Agreed.

    Would have helped immensely when playing the Cows. You got to pressure the QB. If the front four can't do it, send in help.
     
  13. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    The thing with blitzes, in my opinion is you gotta get home or you expose yourself for the big play. The Safeties again have to read the routes very quickly and pick it up.. thus opening yourself for the homerun.. the coaching staffs focus was limiting the explosive plays.. it is a pick your poison.. if you get in the press coverage they will nickel you to death.. but have to drive it the distance.. bend don't break mentality, more times than not you make a play someplace to shut them down. Between the penalties and 3rd down conversions.. they simply beat us.
     
  14. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Agreed, but you have effective and ineffective blitzes. If you hit the QB, he remembers it. All a blitz has to do is connect. If any QB gets hit a few times by Nick Barnett or Atari Bigby, they're going to be throwing earlier than they should, which would be worth it.
     
  15. joym13

    joym13 Cheesehead

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    All good defenses have one thing in common - an all pro safety! That's what the Packers need, I'm not sure they have one on the roster right now.
     
  16. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    At least not yet.. but with the late season surge of Bigby.. he may develop into a solid to very good saftey with some pop. Keep you eyes on Rouse as well.. he has a nose for the ball.. that would be a physical duo back there with Collins as a dime or backup.

    But agreed, you have to have extreme talent back there to play a changing defense in coverage. Nice call.. even for a girl. :razz: J/K!
     
  17. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I think that our man-to-man style of defense really relies on a great pass rush by our front four. You take that away, and it can really be exposed. In order for this system to work and win the big games, we're going to have to improve our pass rush with our D-Line a bit more. That was probably one of my biggest disappointments in the 2nd half of the year. How many games did we not even have one sack?

    I say that if we can increase the pressure with our front four consistently, our system works pretty good. Otherwise, might need to tweak it a bit.
     
  18. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

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    Yes, as fatigue and injuries set in the last 1/4 of the year, the pressure the line was able to bring was lacking and that in turn impacted our entire defense. That is one of the problems with this particular scheme. The other weaknesses I have noticed are very little in the way of blitz packages and when they come are quite predictable; and a total inability to run anything other than their base man-bump coverage. These areas do need to be addressed in the offseason either by Sanders and the current group of assistants or by a new group(not very likely in my opinion).

    Regarding the other points of the article, I am not sold on the fact that the ZB scheme needs to be scrapped - I think we need more consistent play along the OL and a good change of pace back to compliment Grant.

    QB - well this is the age old debate. I will say that it became rather obvious that Favre is more greatly affected by the cold than he was 5 or 10 years ago. The experience and knowledge he brings to the table have accounted for at least a handful of wins the last 2 years that we may not have otherwise enjoyed. It is also obvious that every year Rogers sits on the bench, his maturation process is retarded. If GB is committed to Rogers as the QB of the future, that future needs to start sooner rather than later. I guess I could be OK with either direction on this issue, however, if Rogers is the man next year the team may take a step back for a year or so, but the long term foundation may indeed be stronger.
     
  19. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    I actually think we do in Atari Bigby. I think the one thing holding him back is coaching (or lack thereof). He'd be out of position at times. But man, that guy could deliver blows that make WRs drop the ball because they hear footsteps.
     
  20. de_real_deal

    de_real_deal Cheesehead

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    I agree. Favre had a horrible season and made a horrible throw in the NFC championship game. Time for him to retire and draft a replacement. No chance our young guys will improve next year or ever be any good with a horrible qb like favre back there.

    /sarcasm
     
  21. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    that's Brett Favre for you. Sometimes he makes those mistakes, but are we so short sighted? I truly believe that without Brett Favre, Green bay doesn't recover after those two quick scores by the Seahawks. Favre's poise is what kept that team focused and together. With out him you don't even see that bad performance against a Giants team that beat the New England Patriots. You can't just look at how Favre did without looking at who the Giants are. They beat the Patriots. No other team in football did that this year, and only one or two teams even came close all season. Did Favre make some bad decisions? Yes, but you can't fault him for trying to make plays either. Going with Rodgers is to relegate this team to a learning year in my opinion. Yeah Rodgers may have a number of snaps under his belt, but until he really starts without Favre there to back him up or spell him, you don't realize what exactly you may have. It's quite different to come in and play when Favre goes down with an injury you see. This is why, the Packers need to listen to Favre. He's the best QB they've had in at least a decade or two. If Favre comes back you let him play until he proves in the next season that he is done. If he doesn't come, then get ready to regress, because Rodgers isn't ready to lead this team to a Super Bowl yet. It may take 2 or three years for him to get there.

    As for Al Harris, yeah he made mistakes he had trouble, that's all Harris, and Plax was on fire. The Giants were the hottest team in the play offs and sometimes its hard to beat a team like that. I don't blame the Defense for that.
     
  22. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Yeah. I don't blame Al Harris. I blame more the DC for not sending Bigby or Collins over there to help him out. Even Pro Bowlers have bad games. When someone is off, you help them out.

    Totally agreed about Favre. We're down 14-0. We're shellshocked. But Favre tells Grant to relax, shake it off, and he still believes in him and in one drive, we're back in the game. That's the epitome of cool.

    Suddenly, we score 6 TDs. Man, that was a great day to be a Packer fan.

    As for our loss to the Giants, I think NOBODY would have beaten the Giants that day. They were on. I don't blame GB. Instead, I tip my hat to the Giants.
     
  23. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    i definitely feel better losing to the Giants after watching how they played NE. It was a most unbelievable sight to behold. I imagine, for a Giant fan, their would be few things in life more thrilling than the 2007 NFL playoffs.
     
  24. c_mac

    c_mac Cheesehead

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    I'm as big of a Favre guy as there is but let's face it - Favre has been awful in most post season games in the last 10 years. I'm glad we did so well this year and Favre looked good most of the time but I'm not convinced that maybe this last year wasn't the best shot at one more Super Bowl for Favre.
     
  25. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    We played 2 playoff games this year.

    the first one, he was absolutely brilliant.

    the second one, the Giants completely shut us down. I'd give more credit to the Giants than blame on Favre. Favre still helped produce 20 points against that Giants D, in horrible conditions. That's saying something.

    Favre and the Packers will be even better in '08. Keep the faith. We'll be okay. I think '95='07.
     

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