Fire Matt LaFleur

[pacmaniac]

They could give a crap about tonight. I’m surprised they’re not just resting starters.

I'm not sure why they would prefer to face Chicago/Philly instead of Carolina/Tampa.

 

[JPPT1974]

As long as he keeps them in the playoffs, he isn't going anywhere.

 

[adambr2]

I'm not sure why they would prefer to face Chicago/Philly instead of Carolina/Tampa.

Last year the Rams had a chance to avoid facing the 14-3 Vikings by winning in Week 18 and they didn’t care and rested all their starters.

 

[adambr2]

As long as he keeps them in the playoffs, he isn't going anywhere.

I hope that’s not the random bar, since the 7 seed wouldn’t have even been a thing 5 years ago and that’s the only way we’ve gotten in since the Rodgers era.

 

[OldSchool101]

This year, the Vikings were abysmal for much of the season due to QB woes and the Lions have once again had their share of injuries not to mention the devastating early retirement of a HOF talent on the O line.

Sounds like excuses to me.

You can’t use the injury excuse of an OL for the Lions as their reasoning for their fall without doing the same for the Packers imo. As far as regressing from last year, Which Lions players impacts the NFL game more than the Packers?
We lost Kenny Clark (trade) Elgton Jenkins, Micah Parsons and Devonte Wyatt?? Are Jayden Reed, Christian Watson and Tucker Kraft not primary producers for Green Bay?? THATS our LEADING #1, #2, #3 from 2024!! Literally !!!

Not even mentioning the guys not showing up on misc reports because they start a game but then go out so injury reports show them healthy. Such as our QB1! Did Goff miss 3 games this year??
Also we’ve been playing on and off without RT, Zach Tom and RB1 Josh Jacobs is nowhere close to healthy this season. We watched him 2X literally hobble off the field. Our RB1 has been on nearly every injury report I can remember. This is an 1,300+ rusher here. Anyone can see that he’s playing hurt. No no no no. I don’t believe you were unaware because you’re too busy complaining in here to be that uninformed. I think you’ve got a narrative that fits allowing you to complain, but it’s filled with agenda and excuses.

Answer us this?

If Detroit or Minnesota had won their games against the Green Bay Packers.. with all those Packer injuries along the way.
What would be their Playoff Status going into Week 18? Which one would be playoff eliminated?

 

[BrokenArrow]

The biggest reason is the because of the injuries. Because we have to be fair and look at everything.

They were pretty healthy when they lost to the Bengals, tied the Cowpies and lost to the Panthers. If coaches only got fired when their teams got through the season healthy, coaches would never get fired. The problem is his stupid decisions that have become more frequent in the past two seasons, especially when deciding to go for it on 4th down only to call some stupid play that has no chance. His decision not to punt from our own 35 yard line and the play he chose for that situation was one of the worst calls I've ever seen in 50+ years of watching football, and that includes a lot of bonehead calls by Dan Campbell. We have a fantastic punter who can be a real weapon in the field position battle and it's as if he has simply decided he doesn't want to use him anymore. I've defended him for years, but that play pushed my over the edge on him. And FFS, stop looking like the bully just stole your lunch money on the sideline all game long!

Also, next year is truly the last year If he’s not signed this offseason to an extension.

But yeah, if we get EMBARRASSED off the field in the playoffs, especially by a division rival? The wolves will howl.

 

[OldSchool101]

The problem is his stupid decisions that have become more frequent in the past two seasons, especially when deciding to go for it on 4th down only to call some stupid play that has no chance. His decision not to punt from our own 35 yard line and the play he chose for that situation was one of the worst calls I've ever seen in 50+ years of watching football, and that includes a lot of bonehead calls by Dan Campbell. We have a fantastic punter who can be a real weapon in the field position battle and it's as if he has simply decided he doesn't want to use him anymore. I've defended him for years, but that play pushed my over the edge on him

I also actually do NOT agree with the Matt’s play call on 4th n inches. Yet I’m not sure that’s worth firing our Entire Staff and firing Matt is scrapping the entire Staff imo.
While I know Baltimore would just Run the clock. Literally RUN the clock. Pinning our opponent inside the 10-20 area was the correct choice. A 50 net leaves Baltimore at their own 15. Pretty reasonable chance to hold them to a FG needing 85 yards there. Instead we handed them a bonus FG and quickly on that drive.

The other aspect is you could tell they were having their way with us. So possibly shortening the game (less opponent possessions) can help. Even if Baltimore still gets 3pts, they’d have to go 55+ yards to do it, which burns an extra ~4 minutes of game clock. If they didn’t get a FG and they Punt to us? It’s only burning gameclock. Which if anything shortens their last possession. Either way it benefits the Packers.

The other aspect. It’s a completely different scenario if we’re on Bal40 etc.. because a 1st down, plus 3+ ensuing plays should get us into FG range.
OR
IF GB Is < Bal8 yard line. 1yard and it’s 1st n Goal from the Bal7. A high % you’d stick that for TD in 4 tried with how the game was more Offensive.

Here in that particular turnover on Downs. We’re at the GB34! Even IF we had converted 1 yard? It’s still no guarantee we get points??! It’s only a guarantee they get at least a FG if we miss. So none of that makes a lick of sense before you even discuss the type of play we ran. That was a very compulsive 4th down try in a 7pt game that early on.

stop looking like the bully just stole your lunch money on the sideline all game long!

 

[milani]

Specifically, he has no idea what to do on 4th and 1

I'm not sure why they would prefer to face Chicago/Philly instead of Carolina/Tampa.

Carolina/Tampa will likely see LA/ Seattle.

 

[chemist]

Specifically, he has no idea what to do on 4th and 1.

Only 9? In other words, the definition of mediocre. Are you good with his decision to run yet again out of the shotgun on 4th and one inch from our own 35 yard line?

A HC cant be judged by just one play, or one bad call, or one bad year just like we wouldnt want someone to judge us by one bad mistake and assume this is who we are.
Their overall record should be looked at

No doubt MLF has won many games in his 7 years here, and he has gotten to 50 wins the fastest of any other packers HC except for lombardi. Of course he had an advantage over the other GB coaches as the season is longer now then when others like holmgren was coaching. His season winning % is 2nd neck and neck with holmgren on the list of GB coaches.
Coach...........seasons....w%.....
Lombardi.........9.............75.4
Lafleur..............7.............66.5
Holmgren.........7.............67.1
Mccarthy..........13............61.8
He certainly does very well during the season. But what is the goal of playing this game because that is the marker of success people will look at. Do you want a team that does well year after year but doesnt do much at playoff time. Isnt the goal to win the SB. Lafleur has a great season record but his playoff record is last on the list
Coach..........playoffs.........titles
Lombardi.........9-1...............5
Lafleur.............3-5................0
Holmgren.......9-5................1
Mccarthy........10-8..............1

IMO MLF has had more than enough time to prove his value as a HC that can lead a team and help them achieve the main goal of why we play this game.

 

[tynimiller]

He's essentially in year 3 of "his" guys and system. Let's not forget #12 demanded a lot - from playcall style to what guys he wanted. Many of us have visited the historical context of SB winning coaches, for sure there are examples of guys after 5-7 years winning it but far less - but I know for me the clock with MLF'er restarted when Love finally handed the reigns and we got out from under the cap depression dug pushing all in for Rodgers.

 

[chemist]

He's essentially in year 3 of "his" guys and system. Let's not forget #12 demanded a lot - from playcall style to what guys he wanted. Many of us have visited the historical context of SB winning coaches, for sure there are examples of guys after 5-7 years winning it but far less - but I know for me the clock with MLF'er restarted when Love finally handed the reigns and we got out from under the cap depression dug pushing all in for Rodgers.

It sounds like you just made my point. Sure a coach may win a SB 6 or 7 yrs out but as you said they are few and far between, probably because most were let go before they got to that point

Lets not forget in the Rodgers era he had a 4 time MVP QB, still in his prime, and a top flight receiving corps with adams, lazard, scandling etc.

 

[tynimiller]

It sounds like you just made my point. Sure a coach may win a SB 6 or 7 yrs out but as you said they are few and far between, probably because most were let go before they got to that point

Lets not forget in the Rodgers era he had a 4 time MVP QB, still in his prime, and a top flight receiving corps with adams, lazard, scandling etc.

About half this board is going to STRONGLY disagree with you....

 

[chemist]

About half this board is going to STRONGLY disagree with you....

Maybe so but the picture that stats paint are undeniable

 

[Magooch]

I’m repeating myself but I’m just not totally convinced injuries have been a huge factor *at least with regards to our W-L record* this season.

We didn’t lose to the Browns due to injuries.
We didn’t tie the Cowboys due to injuries.
We didn’t lose to the Panthers due to injuries.

In games against the Eagles, Bears, and Broncos, injuries certainly didn’t help but imo we DID have the players to win these games. As I said before, it’s not like Doubs botched the onside against the Bears because Parsons and Kraft were out injured…

So injuries have certainly played a role/had an impact but at the same time I’m not sure how many games this year we can look at and say “due to injuries, we simply did not have the players to be able to win this game”
Now to be fair you could easily look at this and say it’s a testament to the coaching that we were able to hang in these games with the injuries we had. But overall when you look at it on a per game basis I don’t think you can really say injuries are the primary defining factor in our W-L record

 

[BrokenArrow]

I also actually do NOT agree with the Matt’s play call on 4th n inches. Yet I’m not sure that’s worth firing our Entire Staff and firing Matt is scrapping the entire Staff imo.

It's not that one play though. He has completely bought into the Dan Campbell attitude that punting is stupid. Our number of punts has decreased from 59 2 years ago to 56 last year, to only 41 this year, and it's sure as hell not because we're putting up more points. We've given our opponents a LOT of short fields this year because of his refusal to punt between the 45s. We have a guy who can consistently put the other team inside the 10 yard line from that range and he refuses to do it. But that play from our own 35 was the last straw of many for me. You can't go far with a coach who has tossed aside any regard for field position. So what if Henry was running all over the place? At least if he has to start from his 10 yard line he has a lot further to go. Further to go = more attempts and more attempts = more chances for a turnover.

 

[tynimiller]

If we don't suffer Kraft and Parsons catastrophic injuries and Tom coupling it we at MINIMUM IMO at least have one more win, I argue two more.

 

[adambr2]

If we don't suffer Kraft and Parsons catastrophic injuries and Tom coupling it we at MINIMUM IMO at least have one more win, I argue two more.

Wouldn’t Bear fans argue that they would likely have one more win if they had Odunze on the team this last month and a half?

 

[Packers4ever]

True.

I will say there’s some areas we can improve but that’s really any game I watch. We all know it’s really tough to win in this league.

With that said. We’d all agree that the best ability is availability. That statement about players imo applies to the entire team as a whole. If you’re not playing in postseason you’re not giving yourself a chance to improve. One thing Matt doesn’t have to apologize for is being consistently good and getting us a ticket to the postseason. It’s just assumed. We can lose 4 in a row and still qualify!

Say what they may but 18 teams fans have 0% chance of watching their teams compete in playoffs. We’re in the playoffs every year and next to being a consistent SB Winner? That’s pretty fun.

You know what better than Malik’s single season completion % of 85%???

Matt LaFleur Postseason qualified 86% CAREER. We’re darn lucky and the bulk of these naysayers didn’t get to begin being a fan in the early 1970’s LET ME TELL YA HOW THAT FELT!!

So they (I’ll call them by proper terminology but I’d be banned!)
can all cry me a river!

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, sounds to me another person looking for excuses to keep MLF , he has not shown leadership qualities even with his bit % of wins
bid % of wins only shows he had very talented teams and still he can not win the big one , he should not be calling plays so he can have more time to coach the team as a whole

 

[Sanguine camper]

Sounds like excuses to me.

You can’t use the injury excuse of an OL for the Lions as their reasoning for their fall without doing the same for the Packers imo. As far as regressing from last year, Which Lions players impacts the NFL game more than the Packers?
We lost Kenny Clark (trade) Elgton Jenkins, Micah Parsons and Devonte Wyatt?? Are Jayden Reed, Christian Watson and Tucker Kraft not primary producers for Green Bay?? THATS our LEADING #1, #2, #3 from 2024!! Literally !!!

Not even mentioning the guys not showing up on misc reports because they start a game but then go out so injury reports show them healthy. Such as our QB1! Did Goff miss 3 games this year??
Also we’ve been playing on and off without RT, Zach Tom and RB1 Josh Jacobs is nowhere close to healthy this season. We watched him 2X literally hobble off the field. Our RB1 has been on nearly every injury report I can remember. This is an 1,300+ rusher here. Anyone can see that he’s playing hurt. No no no no. I don’t believe you were unaware because you’re too busy complaining in here to be that uninformed. I think you’ve got a narrative that fits allowing you to complain, but it’s filled with agenda and excuses.

Answer us this?

If Detroit or Minnesota had won their games against the Green Bay Packers.. with all those Packer injuries along the way.
What would be their Playoff Status going into Week 18? Which one would be playoff eliminated?

Injuries or retirements aren't an excuse for having a much worse team, it's just an unavoidable fact. When key players go down, the talent levels drops precipitously. Talent still matters the most. The Lions have less talent this year and it shows. Same for the Vikings, especially at QB.

The fact of the matter is that the Packers play their worst in the biggest games. In 2024 those were mostly division games. This year, those games were against the Eagles, Ravens, Bears and Broncos. All teams in the playoffs or playing for a division title in week 18.

Does MLF deserve a free pass this year due to the injury epidemic. No, I think he's partially to blame for the injuries. The Packers habitually have an injury list much longer than the opposition. Players leave the franchise to seek medical help and the team botched Bahktiari's rehabilitation. The entire injury mess can't be 100% bad luck when patterns persist, but yet it appears that nothing is ever done about it.

 

[Magooch]

IMO best-case scenario if we're healthy we pick up one, MAYBE two more wins.

Looking back over it.

We had a 90% win probability in Cleveland with ~3 min to go. Kraft and Parsons both there for it and we lose. Verdict: loss not due to injury

Similarly we have a 85% probability with less than 2 minutes to go against Dallas, and
70%+ with less than a minute remaining in OT. Again we have both Kraft and Parsons and we settle for a tie. Verdict: tie not due to injury

We start the game with an 80% win probability vs Carolina, and remain favored to win until just a few minutes left in the 3rd. Micah played, Tom had 100% of offensive snaps, and while Kraft got hurt in this game he didn't get injured until the 3rd quarter. And we had Watson playing as well. Verdict: loss not due to injury

So IMO in all three of those there's really no way we can call them "injury losses".

On to the rest, we were actually opening "favorites" against Philly and had something like a 60% chance to win heading into halftime. Parsons was playing, Tom again played 100%, and Watson had over 80% of offensive snaps. Do we win that one if Kraft plays? I mean maybe so. but IMO you can make just as much of a case that our ridiculous handling of the kicking situation and godawful 4th-and-short management lost us that one every bit as much... Verdict: loss not due to injury; ST and coaching decisions/management a bigger factor

Denver, maybe you can make a case for it? This is another game where we took an 80% win probability into the second half. We were of course without Kraft, and Tom only played about half the game. And then we saw Micah leave in the second half...but like I was saying before, we were absolutely in a position to win with the guys that we had... Verdict: injuries played a big part, but you can argue we had opportunity to put them away before injuries hit

The second game against Chicago I've already addressed a few times. We had completely shut them down for 99% of the game and threw it away on special teams. That game is a 100% win if we just recover the onside kick, simple as that. I can't put that one on injuries. Verdict: loss not due to injury

Finally we come to Baltimore. That one is hard for me to say because we were never really competitive in it. Like you watch that game and we got beat so thoroughly that it never really felt like "Well if we just had ____ we would have won" if you know what I mean. But it's hard to say. Verdict: injuries likely a factor; a healthy team at least plays them closer. Beaten comprehensively enough that I can't say for sure how it might change outcome.

So yeah, I see it as one, MAYBE two additional wins, and frankly I don't know if winning one or two additional games in those situations does a ton to change our overall outlook or "mood" or whatever you want to call it. But more importantly IMO is that if we just put away teams like Carolina, Cleveland, Dallas, Chicago - the "non-injury losses" - we have more breathing room and can "afford" to lose games like Baltimore or possibly Denver. Just winning those "should have won" games puts us at 13 wins and competing for the #1 seed. So yes...injuries certainly DID play a factor but IMO when you consider the players we had available and the in-game situations that were presented to us....we still had every shot to be a #1 seed if we had just taken care of those sort of games. Instead, we are again finding ourselves at #7

 

[tynimiller]

Wouldn’t Bear fans argue that they would likely have one more win if they had Odunze on the team this last month and a half?

They could but we ain't talking just one starter. Also I'd put the level of player of Kraft, Tom and Parsons all above Odunze at this point in his career. AND I LOVED ROME. I wanted us to draft him the year before he came out if he did...was so pissed when he went to Bears.

 

[OldSchool101]

A HC cant be judged by just one play, or one bad call, or one bad year just like we wouldnt want someone to judge us by one bad mistake and assume this is who we are.
Their overall record should be looked at

No doubt MLF has won many games in his 7 years here, and he has gotten to 50 wins the fastest of any other packers HC except for lombardi. Of course he had an advantage over the other GB coaches as the season is longer now then when others like holmgren was coaching. His season winning % is 2nd neck and neck with holmgren on the list of GB coaches.
Coach...........seasons....w%.....
Lombardi.........9.............75.4
Lafleur..............7.............66.5
Holmgren.........7.............67.1
Mccarthy..........13............61.8
He certainly does very well during the season. But what is the goal of playing this game because that is the marker of success people will look at. Do you want a team that does well year after year but doesnt do much at playoff time. Isnt the goal to win the SB. Lafleur has a great season record but his playoff record is last on the list
Coach..........playoffs.........titles
Lombardi.........9-1...............5
Lafleur.............3-5................0
Holmgren.......9-5................1
Mccarthy........10-8..............1

IMO MLF has had more than enough time to prove his value as a HC that can lead a team and help them achieve the main goal of why we play this game.

Good visual representation. Not making excuses but I am pointing out that it’s largely been our Defensive snd Special Teams that have held us back under Matt. We finally got a competent DC, but Matt’s biggest weakness is not switching Teams Coordinators. Rich has had more than ample time to generate results imo. I’m sure he’s a wonderful person, yet the correct thing to do is be upfront and rip the band aid off and clean and redress the wound. We seem to like to stay with used up bandaids.

Furthermore. Rich holds title of Assistant Head Coach. So either that’s just a label he’s a Figurehead or he’s also responsible for things like Clock mismanagement and poor disciple leading to double digit flags this late in season.

 

[AGreen2AJones]

MLF lovers:

It's not MLF's fault. It's Hafley's fault, it's Barry's fault, it's Bisaccia's fault....never Matt's though

 

[tynimiller]

MLF lovers:

It's not MLF's fault. It's Hafley's fault, it's Barry's fault, it's Bisaccia's fault....never Matt's though

Define MLF Lovers. Even many members here that don't think it wise to fire him after this season would not be ever consider lovers of MLF I'd guess.

 

[chemist]

Good visual representation. Not making excuses but I am pointing out that it’s largely been our Defensive snd Special Teams that have held us back under Matt. We finally got a competent DC, but Matt’s biggest weakness is not switching Teams Coordinators. Rich has had more than ample time to generate results imo. I’m sure he’s a wonderful person, yet the correct thing to do is be upfront and rip the band aid off and clean and redress the wound. We seem to like to stay with used up bandaids.

Furthermore. Rich holds title of Assistant Head Coach. So either that’s just a label he’s a Figurehead or he’s also responsible for things like Clock mismanagement and poor disciple leading to double digit flags this late in season.

Or maybe its not Rich's fault. Maybe he has,no say in it at all. Maybe its MLF wanting to control everything himself. Maybe its just his inate control freak personality that requires him to be that way. Except he's not good at keeping track of all the things necessary to manage a game properly.
I'm not going to list examples of this breakdown. We ve all seen them posted ad nauseum already.
Besides that I just dont feel he has the coaching style that motivates a locker room, that promotes a culture of team comraderie, where players will do anything for him. I just dont see him as the leader we need.